keep this contained within ukraine no matter what. >> containment seems a bit callus, though, at this point. given what we just saw, what we have been seeing, are nato and its allies just going to sit back really and watch this siege warfare? it's essentially a terror campaign and could engulf as you know more of ukraine. and this is not -- i want to make clear this is not collateral damage. those of us who cover chechnya know what it is. this is the whole ball game. they are the direct targets of civilians. >> it's un -- it's complete warfare. it's absolutely full-scale warfare. you're dead right. there's no question about that. but what we have to be strong on is as bad as these things are, if we escalate this, it's not likely if we choose to use military power we can prevent that or we can stop it, almost certainly it would expand it, and now you'll have more communities, more countries suffering the same drukz, and it's only going to escalate beyond that. so we have to keep it here so it