with vladimir putin and perhaps other western leaders would -- is aligned actually also with ukrainian interests. remember, kim, the ukrainian threat posed by russia is not one as stark presented by either the united states or the united kingdom. we spoke yesterday to the country's defense minister put to him that, look, we agree on of the facts, with united states and ukraine, but what we have is a different understanding of threat. that is because ukraine officials are not convinced it's a land grab that russia is after. rather, it's aimed with this troop buildup that they say has not substantially changed since spring of last year which is more stabilized to divide and challenge nato than actually to come in conquer ukrainian territory. that difference of assessment leads to a different message even if ukrainian officials are paced to explain that they agree with the allies and all the