door? >> it is like a thump. >> loud enough for you to hear? >> yes. >> even with the thumping of the base going? >> sure. it was a different sound. >> you said it looked like a barrel of a gun or a shotgun. >> it was thick enough profile it was to my eye a 12-gauge, maybe 20. >> tell the jury, are you familiar with 12-gauge and 20-gauge shotguns? >> yes. >> how are you familiar with those type of shotguns? >> we do the sporting plays. that's like skeet but, you know, the birds come from different directions. it is like shooting skeet. >> do you actually shoot bird sns. >> no. i'm sorry. that's what they call the clay pin pigeon. >> when you hear somebody say pull, the clay gets shot out? >> yes. >> when you say we, who is we? >> my father and quite a few people from the aviation