happening within the government, crimes against the american people. i think we should feel more comfortable with a precedent set that says whistleblowers who expose systemic problems deserve to be treated as heroes. not criminals. >> you're admitting a major fact, which is snowden took things that are far outside the scope of what you're choosing to talk about right now. >> you're assuming that. you're assuming that. where is your proof for that? you have no proof for that. you're simply assuming that. you have no proof for that. >> hold on. >> go ahead, ben. make your point. >> what we know he has taken is information that has exposed crimes. >> time-out, time-out, time-out, time-out. ben ferguson, make your point. david, respond. go. >> there are millions of pieces of data, is what we have been told he has. he's even claimed that. all of it cannot be connected to one single core issue. that's exactly why the russians and other people offered help, because they had information they wanted that he had that was outside the scope of what he did