believe that trayvon martin reached for george zimmerman's gun? >> i think he might have. i think that george probably thought that he did because george was the one who knew that george was carrying a gun and he was aware of that. >> you can't say for sure whether or not trayvon martin knew that george zimmerman was carrying a gun? >> no. >> so you can't say whether or not tray vor martin reached for that gun? >> no. there's not a right or a wrong. even if he did reach for the gun, it doesn't make any difference. >> how so? >>well, because george had a right to protect himself at that point. >> so you believe george zimmerman really felt like his life was in danger? >> i do. i really do. >> do you think trayvon martin threw the first punch? >> i think he did. >> what makes you think that? >> because of the evidence of -- on -- on the t, on the sidewalk where george says he was punched, there was evidence of his flashlight and keys there