of involvement. >> we understand he sent 30 missiles into that site. 22 were shot down, according to the ukrainians. but eight got through. but bombarding cities like mariupol and others is something they can do without the need for the ground troops. the ground troops are having a hard time. they are not succeeding. they are out of ammunition. they are apparently out of food, out of fuel. so the ground offensive is going poorly. what he can do is fire missiles. so i think, again, that's an indication that it's not going well for him. he is looking for other routes. >> do you see this stretching into nato territory? >> i think neither side wants that. certainly the nato folks are not interested in that fight. and i bet that the russians are