the republican party during his time as his, right. and that's why, at least this is kind of what i took away from my conversations with him. that's why he can't get his head around the fact that he lost. he talked heuplz into this idea this has been stolen from him because republicans did so well down the ballot otherwise. >> it's a problem for him if he doesn't want anyone to win after him. >> it is. it was so interesting to see pence's pivot after five years of going along with trump, from charlottesville to january 6th, now pence has decided he's together to stand up for himself. i think it may be too little too late because the model of the republican politician that pence represented, trump shattered that when trump gave everything they wanted. >> the book is "insurgency."