but the large picture shows the extent to which rudy giuliani was coordinating and running the show. not a surprise, by the way. we heard that was true from ambassador sondland who said some version of rudy giuliani is out there running information, running policy going at odds with respect to the aid and the white house meeting and that sort of thing. again, it's a little hard to know. but it does tell a story of giuliani really being the guy who is doing all of these things and driving this stuff in ukraine. and as we know, with rudy giuliani is not an employee of the federal government. he works for the president which is an indicting fact about what the interest was behind the person who was em meshed with all of these sort of shady activities. >> if you look at the phone records, one of the things that sticks out is one is lev parnas, this figure that's been indicted