clicking a little more. but, yeah, in the beginning, there was a challenge because of melania's past as a model and she being the third wife of the president. the pences are, as we know, devoutly religious. they're very traditional. they hold themselves to an incredibly high moral standard. so i think there was a literal foreign nature to this exotic melania trump creature coming on the scene and that created some initial friction and not an exact closeness right off the bat. and with ivanka trump, this is, again, a stepmother/stepdaughter relationship. ivanka really appreciated and liked melania trump in the beginning. she liked him for her father and thought she was a good fit, but i think the white house years have really put a strain on their relationship. it's unprecedented to have two women not so far apart in age acting in sort of similar roles. and those overlapping moments,