misdemeanors. >> whether it's one or whether it's the other, i think we're in agreement that what they're trying to do is convey something that can be readily understood by the american people as having crossed an impeachment line. >> but what you do hear, michael, are the president's dechkders saying basically it can't be a crime if the victim didn't know that a crime was happening. and so they keep saying zelensky didn't know the aid was being held up. i don't know if zelensky did or didn't. because the diplomats all around zelensky sure knew that something was up. and they were worried about it. and you start to hear bill taylor and others saying, wait a minute. is this really happening? what's happening with the money? so the diplomats started to know. so i think the counterparts started to know. but what about that? that republicans are saying it couldn't be bribery if zelensky isn't in on it and doesn't know