histonia. what kind of cost can the biden administration impose on these hackers to deter them? >> the difficult part is the hackers are in denied territory, either inside russia or countries that will not move to extradite them after they get a doj complaint. the scary thing is that each one of these attacks, though, shows the vulnerability not to whoever carried it out but to enemy actors like military cyberhackers in north korea and china, in iran. as christopher wray was calling this possibly the next 9/11, you can see a situation where they don't just hit a major meat supplier but major hospital systems, power supply all at once. so one of the things i would also encourage people to do, along with amid arbitration