a defiant message to his critics, including president obama who 43 days ago said gadhafi must yield power. just moments ago, the white house released this new joint statement from the president of the united states, the president of france and the british prime minister that says bluntly, it is impossible to imagine a future for libya with gadhafi in power. and yet not only is the libyan dictator still in power, one could make the case he's winning, or at least not losing, after a month of air strikes by nato with that no-fly zone. as you zoom in closer, it is striking to watch this play out. here's the start of the air strikes. these strikes here. the opposition, green means the regime control. this is the start of the air strikes. and the opposition clearly benefited at the beginning. you see the surge right there. this is late march, the final days of march, the opposition making its way aiming west. but this is where we are now. look at that. the regime has taken back all the control of this and back on their feet right now is where you find the opposition. another embarrassing day on the battlefield for the opposition. these troops here -- watch as the video plays out -- you get the sense which way they are going. they wanted to go west from ajdabiya, instead retreating back to the east. ben wedeman was right there on the front lines as this played out today. ben, you're right out there on the front lines of ajdabiya and you describe a catastrophic collapse. take us to the scene. >> reporter: we were there and we were told there would be a push toward braga. we saw what seemed to be positive signs. they have military radios and booted apparently contributed by the gulf state of qatar. they didn't rush willy-nilly to the front. they were getting very organized, prepared to move forward. they were hoping to the outskirts of braga. then apparently at one point one of the soldiers dropped one of the mortar rounds. it exploded. that sort of caused chaos. a few minutes later, they got the order to move forward. and they didn't get more than about 15 yards past the main gate of ajdabiya when for no apparent reason, they started firing in every direction, rockets, katushas, heavy machine guns,it was utter pand known yum. then they scattered in all directions. and later, a convoy of the eastern libya army showed up but they hadn't coordinated with the other fighters and the fighters thought that these were gadhafi's men dressed up as rebels and they almost came to blows until the message came across. but apparently this army column was several hours late for this planned offensive. so yet again, they were all ready to go towards braga, that all-important oil town, when their efforts simply fell apart. >> and ben, forgive me, but it sounds like "keystone cops". >> reporter: that's what it looks like, john. and this is when apparently nato is conducting frequent and pinpoint strikes on gadhafi's forces in the area. i was told by one member of the transitional national council here that nato had done what they had promised to do today, which was to hit libyan army targets midway between ajdabiya and braga and on the outskirts of braga. all that was left was one small group of gadhafi's men about six kilometers or four miles from ajdabiya. they never even got that far. so the effort in this part of the country is looking exactly like that, "keystone cops". >> one day obviously does not complete the story. but if they're getting what they wanted on this day from nato, what does it say about their ability -- we talk of a stalemate. you'd have to say advantage gadhafi on the ground. what does it say about their ability on the ground if nato is more robust and aggressive, can these rebels get their act together and start making their way to the west? >> reporter: i think one thing that's painfully apparent at the front is the lack of any senior commanders. the most senior guy there today was maybe about 30 years old. you don't see any real trained military men, senior officers, at the front. and without some sort of direction, experienced direction, this really is just a slap-dash effort and is doomed to failure. and it's not just a question of judging one day -- believe me, i spent a lot of time up there. and it seems that if anything, they're going from bad to worse. there's no apparent improvement in their military performance. they seem to be getting worse. john? >> critically important perspective and reporting. ben wedeman in benghazi, thank you. to the west in tripoli, that gadhafi drive through the streets came within hours of this. we had these images going up. you see the smoke rising up. you could heard the explosions in tripoli. we're told the explosions were nato strikes. take us through the symbolism of this. gadhafi waving through the sunroof of that car, a show of defiance just after these strikes. what was it like? >> reporter: yeah, clearly. clearly he's trying to show that he is defiant even in the face of these nato air strikes. he did tour basically the inner city. went to some residential areas, allegedly visiting some of the alleged civilian casual tties o those air strikes. the government minders did not take us there. but clearly he is trying to show he's still very much in power, that he feels very assured and that he is very defiant. and you're absolutely right. this was one of the days where we felt we had the most air strikes in a very long time here in the capital. some of them seemed tor fairly large. we were taken to the site of what was apparently one of these air strikes and the government minders there tried to tell us that it was a university building that had been hit. however, when we inspected that building, it was clear there was no bomb damage to it whatsoever. and we sort of peeked through the trees and saw that it was actually a military radar site that was hit, quite precisely hit. there was a vehicle standing next to the radar itself. but the radar was completely destroyed. when we tried to film that, we were quickly told that it was not allowed and we needed to leave as soon as possible. >> you have seen this statement now, the new joint statement, the president of the united states, the president of france, the prime minister of great britain saying they cannot imagine a libya with gadhafi still in power and essentially trying to prod nato to stay on the job as long as it takes. what's your sense of how the regime will see that show of -- you would say at least tough words from the leaders? >> reporter: well, the regime is obviously going to say that it's absolutely outrageous and that it's not going to happen. that's what we've seen from the gadhafi government in the past. they have said that moammar gadhafi leaving power here in libya simply is not in the cards at this point in time. now, the sense that we've been getting from libyan officials in background talk -- and it takes a long while to get through to this -- they seem to be feeling they're more sure and more secure in their position than they were, for instance, a couple of weeks ago when you had a lot more protests here in tripoli and they felt that their power base might have been eroding a little more. right now, they seem to feel a little more assured especially in light of the fact that they've pushed the rebel fighters all the way back to ajdabiya. i mean, they were at sirte. they're trying to get the situation in misrata under control. the battle has been bloody there. clearly at this point in time, the gadhafi government does not feel that it's shaken to the point where they think that gadhafi is going to have to relinquish power. it does appear this could be a very, very long-term operation. >> fred poli, thank you. hillary clinton said they are defyi defying. >> we're going to see the end of the gadhafi regime in libya. and we are attributing in many ways in order to see that goal realized. >> only half of nato's 28 members are involved in the libya operation and just six of those 14 members are willing to use their military assets to strike ground targets. france and britain are appealing for more aggressive targeting. and nato's attornsecretary gene says he needs more firepower tonight. >> we need a few more precision fighters, ground attack aircraft for air-to-ground missions. >> let's bring in senior analyst david gergen for some important perspective tonight. i have this new joint statement. it will be published in newspapers around the world tomorrow, key international newspapers. president obama, president sarkozy, prime minister cameron say they can't imagine a libya with gadhafi still in power. and as you hear about the "keystone cops" on the ground opposition and you hear fred talking about the regime and we see the dramatic pictures of gadhafi, we read this -- >> david gergen, however, so long gadhafi is in power, nato must maintain its operations. it could be weeks, it could months. it could conceivably be years. >> it could be a long time, john. i don't think anybody knows how long. it's very frustrating for us to sit here and watch these films, to see the defiance of gadhafi 43 days after the president of the united states says he must go. he's sitting there shaking his fists at us. and it makes you angry. it read that piece. i find it strange and i think there's a section of that op-ed piece that you read, there's one sentence that says the city of misrata is under a medieval siege, a medieval siege, abuses are growing there. and the very next sentence of the statement says, our mission is to protect civilians and we're accomplishing that. unbelievable. one sentence, we're watching all these terrible things to his people. next sentence, but, by the way, we're protecting the people. i think that's part of the frustration of what's going on here. i have to tell you that from a united states perspective and talking to top people and the government over the last number of days, i don't have a same sense of urgency that these films suggest. i don't have a sense that the united states government is really, really -- this is not at the top of the priority list. they make it very clear that they're keeping their eye on bigger strategic goals for the united states, that libya is still quite marginal to the united states. what they're concerned about and they think they're making progress on is egypt and saudi arabia and iraq. and they think they're working on it -- along with iran, of course. >> and yet, david, the president of the united states puts his name on this essay, that will be published in these key papers around the world. who's the key audience? you're trying to tell gadhafi -- but who's the audience? is this gadhafi or is it more directed at the wavering members of nato saying, the big guns, the united states, france and britain, are going to stick this out, get in line behind us? >> i think it's more aimed at nato and intended to do exactly what secretary of state clinton was doing today, that is to try to mend this sort of open riff where the british and the french aggressively call for more action and more military action. they will rebuff over the last couple of days in nato. and hillary and i think the president -- the president's the first person who signed this. it sounds like it was written out of washington. it has all the language that he's been using. i think it was really aimed more at nato. one other thing i think is really interesting, it's changed over the last few weeks, and that is that we no longer even talk about the possibility that there will be a crack in the libyan government, that the people around gadhafi will defect. he seems to have strengthened his hold right there in tripoli. >> because of that, this could be a long process. and the president of the united states committing nato to that tonight and american taxpayers need to realize if he commits them, he commits american taxpayers as well. david, thank you. still ahead here today, to egypt's young revolutionaries, muhammad salem meets with us. bet your family can't go six months without a budget but your government did tonight. congress tonight passed a budget that keeps the government running through september. this was the deal struck late friday to avert that government shutdown. praise hard to find even among those who negotiated the deal. >> is it perfect? no. i'd be the first one to admit that it's flawed. well, welcome to divided government. >> the house vote, 260 to 167. the senate quickly followed with an 81-19 note that sent this six-month budget down to the congress. contentious fight over next year's budget and raising the government's ability to borrow money. in those debates, this number could be critical, 59. 59 republicans in the house voted "no" on that short-term budget tonight because they think it is too timid in slashing spending. dana bash and gloria borger are with us. and from new york, joe kline is with us. let's start with the 59. if you're john boehner and you know you have to vote in the coming weeks to raise the ability to borrow, the debt ceiling, if you know you're going to have to try to negotiate with the president a longer-term deficit reduction plan, the president wants tax increases. that 59 madonna cuffs, a straightjacket? what would we call it? >> probably both. what they had to deal with, they had to have 81 democrats vote "yes." they needed 39, but the bottom line is they needed the democrats on this. anything that gets done is going to have to be bipartisan. maybe that is potentially a good thing if you look at the big picture. but it definitely makes it very difficult for the house speaker. >> i think it's a little more difficult, though, as you continue to go through these fights and the president gave a pretty partisan speech yesterday about the budget. as you continue to go through these fights, you may end up with more and more republicans pe peeling off here. >> joe kline f you're an average american watching at home, you think, i have to have a family budget the whole year. that's one thing. can't be too excited that congress did a job it should have done six months ago. what does it tell us about the debate going forward? before you answer, i want you to listen to paul ryan, the the top republican, the guy the president has to do business with on the budget. listen to him talk about the president's speech yesterday and how paul ryan thinks we've devol vd into finger-pointing. >> i expect that nancy pelosi and harry reid to come out with a tax. we didn't expect it from the commander in chief. and when the commander in chief brings us down to the mosh pit that we are in, it makes it difficult to bring that type of leadership. >> sometimes they talk like that and they actually do business. sometimes they talk like that and it tells you they can't do business. >> well, you know, first of all, i'm a lot more optimistic on the chances of getting the debt ceiling raised than dana or gloria because you're going to have all of the democrats in favor of it. all you're going to need a maybe half the republican caucus and you're likely to get that. these 59 are the real recalcitrants. i think there's still a chance at doing business. as for ryan, what on earth was he expecting? it's amazing to me how election after election, the winning party overreads the returns. the republicans have tremendously overread the returns of 2010. paul ryan proposed a budget that was extreme. it was very radical. the medicare piece of it was just way off the deep end. and now he's associated his entire party with a plan that would gut the most popular government program out there. now, if you're president of the united states of the opposite party, if you're a democrat and you don't even mention that in your subject speech, you should be sued for political malpractice. >> but there's mentioning and there's mentioning, right? and i think a lot of people were kind of stunned that barack obama went from sort of clark kent to superman overnight, right? because he had been -- >> he set them up perfectly. >> he did. but my question always was, couldn't the president have waited just a little bit or was the left so upset with him that he knew he had to do something at this particular moment, which is why of course they laid on the speech at this time? >> let me just say what joe said about the difference between the next fight that they're going to have to vote on, raising the debt ceiling and the big issue of trying to cut $4 trillion in ten or 12 years. i agree. i think the debt ceiling is a matter of what they can negotiate. but i am very skeptical that they can get the big thing done. but i do think it's important to take it up 10,000 feet and talk about what we're talking about here -- cutting spending. this was not a part of the lexicon. this is not a part of the debate just a few months ago. it has changed the dynamic in the debate. >> cutting spending now. we'll see what happens over the ten-year trek. joe, you wanted to make a point? >> the debate in washington is not the debate that's going on in the country. only 11% of the american people, according to the most recent gallup poll, think the deficit is the most important issue out there. people are concerned about the economy. and i will give the republicans credit for this -- to the extent that they've managed to divert the president from the immediate problem of getting the economy going again and now people are predicting a slowdown later this year, to the extent the republicans have succeeded in taking his eye off that ball, they're doing their political job. but this deficit cutting stuff, it's a long-term problem. it's not something that should be -- that we should be all consumed with right now. >> you make that point, joe. i think that jobs by far is the number one priority of all americans. but perhaps part of it's our problem and the politicians' problem for not educating them. if nothing is about the long-term deficit, this is where your government ends up by 2020. imagine every dollar of the federal budget, 28 cents, social security, 24 cents to interest -- if they don't change these programs and start dealing with it now, you have 11 cents for everything else. that everything else could include stimulus, efforts by the government to create jobs -- just about anything. the government is paralyzed and will be more paralyzed if it doesn't deal with this in the short term. can they find the political will? we're going to end there tonight. we'll continue the conversation for months. joe, gloria, dana, thank you. still ahead, remember this? >> read my lips -- no new taxes! >> no wonder so many republicans say "no way" to new taxes now. but is that best for the country? and next,@sand monkey is the twitter handle of one of the young egyptians who sparked the revolution. tonight, he's here with us. solution: td ameritrade mobile. i can enter trades. on the run. even futures and forex. complex options? done. the market shifts... i get an alert. thank you. live streaming audio. advanced charts. look at that. all right here. wherever "here" happens to be. mobile trading from td ameritrade. number one in online equity trades. announcer: trade commission-free for 30 days, plus get up to $500 when you open an account. years ago, my mother taught me. and over the years, i've taught my family. we've created so much here together. so when my doctor said that over those years my high cholesterol was contributing to plaque buildup in my arteries, i listened. and that's why i'm fighting my cholesterol with crestor. 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[ male announcer ] if you can't afford your medication, astra-zeneca may be able to help. update now on the investigation of the former egyptian president hosni mubarak and two of his sons. they're in custody and are being questioning about the deaths of civilians. how is information coming out, if at all, about the progress and the process of the investigation? >> reporter: just a few minutes ago, we talked the spokesman for the general prosecutor here because there were reports out in the press, the local press, that mubarak and his two sons would be brought before a court in cairo on tuesday. he firmly denied it saying no date had been set. this 15-day detention period includes some questioning and the charges and the allegations against mubarak, his sons, his close associates and many ministers right now in prison in cairo, that they were guilty of corruption and that they used excessive force against protesters during the uprising. so the military backed the government, it seems, after a violent day on saturday where there was a crackdown in tahrir square just behind me. seems to be reaching out to the protesters who were saying that all of this, the process to investigate mubarak, was going too slowly. so this is what we know -- right now, there is an investigation going on, but no date, john, has been set for a court appearance for hosni mubarak and his two sons, ala and gamal. >> a lot of questions about its motives and commitment. you mentioned the crackdown. there was an arrest of a prominent blogger last week. they see signs that disturb them. are there other signs that this transitional government is trying to reach out and maybe soften its image? >> reporter: we are today because they have made an announcement today that they will review the cases of protesters who were sentenced to prison terms in military tribunals. we don't know exact numbers, dozens, some say up to several hundred, people were detained, were then tried in military tribunals in a hurried and rushed way. and then were sentenced to prison terms for various crimes ranging from insulting the government and the authorities to simply causing trouble. so they are reaching out because it appears as though the military-backed caretaker government is starting to become concerned that the sympathy that the protesters felt for the army during the uprising and the antipathy they felt for the police at the time was dissipating and they were starting to truly doubt the motives and starting to wonder if the promises made by this caretaker government were being broken. tomorrow is going to be interesting. we're hearing that no protests have been called for in tahrir square. if so, it would be the first time since the beginning of the uprising that no protests will take place in tahrir square in cairo. >> important to watch. we'll check back with hala gorani tomorrow. the political unrest across the middle east has magnified the influence of bloggers who put their lives at risk simply by posting pictures and descriptions of what they're seeing on the arab streets. an anonymous blogger what called himself sandmonkey gained international notoriety. a little bit earlier, he was right here. i want your thoughts today on the fact that president mubarak who was forced from office by your revolution is now in custody and being questioned. do you view this as a legitimate investigation by the now military transitional government? >> well, they were basically forced into launching the investigation by us. the transitional government wanted to focus more on the institutional corruption than just kind of wait for it. but now it has to be done. the evidence has been there. ignore all the evidence -- all you have to do is read the human rights important about the crimes of the mubarak regime and the fact that he is in absolute power and control of the entire country. you saw it on tv the things that were happening to us. >> if you spent so much time and energy looking back to punish that you might lose focus and energy on the challenges in front of you. how do you strike that balance? >> here's the thing. he was the big fish. and we finally got him. that's fine. now we can focus on the parliamentary elections. there was no way we were able to move on when justice wasn't served. this man's arrest and trial is the way to flip the page and get over with that part of egyptian history and moving on. >> let's talk about that challenge. i want to read something you tweeted on february 11th. to everyone who rid cluled us, opposed us, wanted us to compromise, i say, you are welcome. today we all celebrate. how do you keep the energy of that remarkable revolution into the more mundane difficult, challenging and sometimes divisive business of political organizing? >> the idea is simple. we need to understand that there is the rest of the country. a lot of people who honestly speaking just want to live their lives, they want stability, work and feed their kids. they're concerned about what's happening. the fact is, nobody's focusing on the economy, even the government is not focused on the economy. the economic plan was, well, the protests have to stop because the wheel of production can't pass if all the protests are happening. they haven't offered an economic solution. what we have to do is also start offering economic solutions, start talking to the international community and say, let's figure out a way to bring egypt back up because you don't want poverty to bring about another revolution. that might not end up being as peaceful as this one. not to mention, we also want people to come to egypt, come visit egypt. we have fantastic resorts and fantastic beaches. it's really cheap right now. and you might get some revolution fouritourism out of >> we're laughing now, which is a great gift. take us back to when in the middle of this, you were arrested. what happened? >> well, it was the day after -- the day they sent camels and horses against us. i managed to completely not be there when that happened. i had left before then. and i spent an entire night -- a lot of people spent the night with us just watching what was happening, which was basically a massacre. the next day, i urged people to go down to tahrir and help people out. and i took medical supplies and i went there. and when i arrived, mubarak thugs attacked me. i escaped with the car. and i five police officers -- we had three girls with us. i said, get us out because of the girls. they took away our ids. they tell us our ids are fake. they start bringing people around us telling us the american agents that were here to destroy the country. and what followed was a 45-minute zombie attack movie. they took away the car keys and people were destroying the car, jumping on the car, trying to flip the car, bringing out ropes and telling us they were going to lynch us. one of the girls got a tire iron hit in her arm. it wasn't fun. i had to jump from my car to the police car. and my car got completely destroyed because of it. they took everything that i had in the car. it doesn't matter. i got detained for a couple of hours and i managed to get out that day. and then at the end of the day, that was the last -- >> are you convinced those dark forces are now completely purged or are some of them going to try to pretend to be reformers, pretend to be people who want a place in the new next egypt? >> they're already pretending, you know. and there comes a point in which, i don't want them to be a part of it at all. in reality. but if you look at the history of countries like ours -- >> do you worry there are dark forces? >> of course. >> or that there are forces that have no interest in sharing your goals for egypt? >> of course. there are ones of the islamists, a lot of people are trying to stop us from getting a secular civil constitution. trust me, we don't want to create an islamic state. a lot of people still believe that they would like to see an islamic country. but we're trying hard to ensure that we have a society that protects minorities and the rights of women, getting us to the 21st century instead of back to the 1600s. >> how much of the credit goes to things like this, to a generation that operates in technology and that -- >> it goes to the generation -- the technology is a tool. we have to use facebook because you couldn't exactly call for a revolution on the news. and that's the thing. you had to use twitter because we didn't have any kind of ways to communicate with each other. but the reality is they shut down our internet the 27th. we managed to increase on the 28th and the following tuesday and so on and so forth. this being a social media revolution -- don't get me wrong, but when i was watching the tunisian revolution, they called it the jasmine revolution. if you ask a single tunisian why did they call it the jasmine revolution? they say, i don't know. it was fine, it was a good narrative. it's easy i guess for the international viewers. in reality, those are tools. they're very important tools. but they're nothing if you don't have the will. if you're not the kind of individual who's willing to risk it all to ensure the better future for your country. >> i hope you'll let me call it a remarkable historic revolution. >> i will. >> thank you very much. appreciate it. ahead here, top headlines including today's big news, a top faa official out of a job after those reports of control tower operators asleep at the switch. that's next. together. it helps the largest of companies seize opportunity like the smallest of startups. it's the network-- the intelligent, secure cisco network that lets your employees, partners, suppliers and customers innovate and share so you can unleash the power of your most valuable asset: your people. [ male announcer ] surprisingly priced at $15,995, the 2011 jetta has arrived. discover german engineering and premium style on the jetta s with best-in-class rear legroom, as well as no-charge scheduled carefree maintenance, all standard. that's great for the price of good. hurry in, and for a limited time while they last get a 2011 jetta for $179 a month. visit vwdealer.com today. for $179 a month. what are you looking at? logistics. ben? the ups guy? no, you see ben, i see logistics. logistics? think--ben is new markets. ben is global access-- china and beyond. ben is a smarter supply chain. ben is higher margins. happier customers... everybody wins. logistics. exactly. see you guys tomorrow. welcome back. if you're just joining, here's the latest news you need to know right now. president obama takes on donald trump and other republicans who keep questioning whether the president was really born in hawaii. >> i think that over the last 2 1/2 years, there has been an effort to go at me in a way that is politically expedient in the short term for republicans, but creates, i think, a problem for them when they want to actually run in a general election where most people feel pretty confident the president was born where he says he was n hawaii. he doesn't have horns. >> the president added he isn't worrying about conspiracy theories or birt certificates. think those laser guns in "star wars" were just science fiction? the united states navy says it successfully tested a high-energy laser weapon. that weapon disabled the outboard motor on a boat a mile away. ford is expanding its recall of pick-up trucks because their airbags may go off unexpectededly. federal aviation administration promising now a top-to-bottom review now that the head of its air traffic organization resigned today because of the scandal created by air traffic controllers falling asleep on duty. next, i'll ask a pair of freshman republican senators in the quest for deficit reduction they're willing to compromise on no new taxes. 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[ male announcer ] visine-a is clinically proven to relieve all your worst eye allergy symptoms. it goes right where you need it, relieving allergy eyes in minutes. get visine-a. the most complete allergy eye drop. today's political battles are often shaped, you might argue, haunted, by defining debates of yesterday. true or not, it is part of republican lore that president george h.w. bush lost because conservatives were mad and stayed at home after he promised not to raise taxes. if republicans refuse to consider tax increases now, it's pretty hard to imagine any grand bipartisan compromise to extend the washington spending happen. so i met with two freshmen republican senators with president obama's demand that wealthy americans must pay more. >> we can't exempt anybody from these efforts, that it's not a appropriate for us to ask for sacrifices from everybody except for the 2% of americans who are doing best. but rather we should ask everybody to participate in this effort to get our fiscal house in order. >> are you adamant, absolutely positively under no circumstances tax increases or do you at least have an open mind saying if the rest of the package is okay, maybe you can convince me there? >> i have to tell you right now with where we are in our economic recovery, i don't think we should be increasing taxes. and when he talks about taxes on the wealthy, let's frame who that is. many small business owners, in fact, a huge chunk of them in this country, those taxes go through their personal incomes and we're talking about taxing small businesses at a time when we need them to grow and thrive. i think it would hurt our economic growth and i wouldn't support that. >> senator, you have a unique voice in this debate because you're in the senate now.house. you were george w. bush's budget director. i want to take you back to that experience. imagine it's 1990 when george h.w. bush brought republicans and democrats to camp david. is our deficit debt crisis now worse than then or not as bad? >> it's far worse. and it's far worse because of the fact that between medicare and medicaid and social security, we have a $1 trillion obligation going forward. our deficit as a percentage of our economy was also lower and our debt, national debt was lower. so it's more difficult now for us to deal with the issue. it's also more important that we show leadership to do so. i would draw this interesting comparison because you mentioned the 1990 budget agreement and the risks that then president bush -- >> he lost an election. the president of the united states who happened to be a republican at the time broke his read my lips no new taxes campaign. there was a consequence to him. he lost the election. should republicans now have the open mind and the courage to maybe lose their jobs like president bush did for the good of the court tree and at least say entering the conversation we won't flatly reflek tifl rule out any tax increases. >> there should be no ideological or flat denial of anything but an acknowledgement that what is west for the economy is not to raise taxes but to reform taxes. there's a consensus about that on both sides of the aisle. if you look at what the fiscal commission d. they said we've got to get the spending under control, understanding that it's a big problem here and in every other measurement, second, they said we've got to grow this economy and that means tax reform. this is what paul ryan proposed in the budget and the president, when he talked about this, did not accurately reflect what was in the ryan budget. it does not say that you're going to have new tax. we're going to make the code more efficient for the budget and growing jobs. >> we can't lose sight that we're on the path to have the highest corporate tax. >> make it flat, more simple, less confusing, perhaps put lawyers and accountants out of business. is it possible, would each of you accept that if i could get a yes or no, that in the end the government got more money, more revenue as long as you were satisfied with the details of tax reform? >> i think the government would end up with more revenue under any analysis that i have seen that is not a static analysis. in other words, if you look at how the behaviors are going to change, you encourage more km economic growth. it's simple. >> i would agree with senator portman. it won't be an increase in taxes. >> republican senator portman earlier today. jessica yellin is here with me. it was striking that senator portman himself -- george bush lost his job. it seems that -- i hate to say it because i think they are pretty good public servants there. but that default -- we may lose our jobs f. we even consider raising taxes, and go in thinking i don't want new taxes but i will think about it. >> maybe i'm too poly annish but they generally believe do not raises taxes solves the problem. tp only hampers business growth and the government needs to collect more revenue by changing the tax code, eliminating loopholes. that's what the gang of six is proposing. don't you think this is an inevitable campaign issue? >> they did say that it's important, that they are not afraid of tax reform revenues going up. some say they have to show the government takes in less money. they don't want the government to get more money. both of those senators say they are open to it. that's the way out. i understand the position. they think taxes hurt the economy. when you have a democratic president who says i won't sign a grand compromise without a tax increase and republicans that say no way, they have to do tax reform. the question is, can they do that between 2012? >> what we're likely to see as part of the grand compromise is setting large goals. for over three years we will cut a trillion dollars of the debt or over ten years we will cut four trillion. and lead to the campaign exactly how and in what ways so you argue about the tax issues, about medicare, medicaid, social security after the election season is over. you get the agreement before. >> and if you get divided -- >> i'm not sure what you take from that, but we'll see how it goes. up next, we check your facebook comments, including pretty helpful suggestion about how to bring the deficit down a little bit. i can't enjoy my own barbecue with these nasal allergies. i know what works differently than many other allergy medications. omnaris. omnaris, to the nose! did you know nasal symptoms like congestion can be caused by allergic inflammation? 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[ man ] omnaris. ask your doctor. battling nasal allergy symptoms? omnaris combats the cause. get omnaris for only $11 at omnaris.com. a living, breathing intelligence that's helping business rethink how to do business. in here, machines tell factories when they're thirsty. so soft drink companies can manage thousands of vending machines in real time. ♪ and customers find what they want...when they want it most. it's the at&t network -- a network of possibilities, creating and integrating solutions, helping business, and the world...work. rethink possible. e-mails on facebook and twitter, we get a lot of suggestions about what to cover and what the politicians should do. ashley wrote, why hasn't anyone suggested a cut to the president's salary or to all of the overpaid politicians? how much money would it save? well, let's take a look at that. that's a helpful suggestion as washington tries to determine what to do. let's take a look here when we zoom in. congress, annual salary and pengs,