liable if any, if it's a civil case. and sometimes there are even questions presented to the jury that they have to determine the facts. at the appellate level, as you said, there is already a record, and the court is looking primarily at the law. the legal principles that guided the decision below based on the factual record. and importantly, at the appellate level, there are standards of review that the court of appeals applies when it decides how to review whether or not to reverse or affirm the judgment of the lower court. and i've been very mindful, especially as a trial judge, of the standards of review. >> when i was prepping lawyers for oral argument before appellate courts, i would often