of death, you see it perhaps trickling down a little bit, a little bit. is there finally some hope that this number is come down? possibly when you look at daily case count. september 1st, 166,000 cases a day, new cases. monday it was 139,000. we've lived through this the last 15-plus months. deaths are a lagging indicator. by that i mean cases come down, hospitalizations come down and then hopefully deaths come down in a week or two after that. at that point let's bring into our conversation dr. leana wen, the former baltimore health commission. i want to come back to this. the total death number. we go through them. some of them just make you stop. i'm not wrong, am i, in the sense that when you look from late january, at least february or march on when vaccines are widely available and you see the cumulative rise you just have to ask yourself why. >> that's right, and that is the big difference between now and 1918 because at that time with the flu pandemic there was no vaccine and yet somehow even with a vaccine we're continuing