something incredibly drastic here at the same time, i said, well, if that's something i have to consider down the line, and that's something i have to consider. you know, he wasn't saying we're going to go do this tomorrow. i said, i had no reservations. i always felt away from the beginning that i was going to lose my vehicle. even though that's what it would do a teaching in the beginning. this is a powerful moment. this was in the mid 19 nineties. some of them have been members since 1974 20 years in a group. 20 years in a group living, breathing imbibing to teachings , the doctrines the practice of the group and being asked at that moment. what do you think? do you want to exit with us? after that meeting, five people eventually left, including sawyer. i left in september of 94. not long after that. but not for that reason.