i mean, do even said, "he's only been here two weeks, and, you know, i'm talking about something incredibly drastic here." at the same time, i said, "well, if that's something i have to consider down the line, then that's something i have to consider," you know? he wasn't saying, we're going to go do this tomorrow. >> i said i had no reservations. i always felt right from the beginning that i was gonna lose my vehicle, even though that's not what they were teaching in the beginning. >> this is a powerful moment. this was in the mid-1990s. some of them had been members since 1974. 20 years in a group. 20 years in a group, living, breathing, imbibing the teachings, the doctrines, the practices of the group, and being asked at that moment, "what do you think? do you want to exit with us?" >> after that meeting, five people eventually left, including sawyer. >> i left in september of '94, not long after that, but not for