>> we sometimes used an analogy of "star trek." most everybody hopefully has seen some kind of "star trek" show. >> you know, we've been in seclusion for 18 years, and our description of this material is probably lacking. and if you could help us know where your areas are that we've left unclear, then we can help fill them in. >> knowledge never ends. the only thing that ends is the human civilization, 'cause that's a dead-end street. it was designed not to work. >> members are not often intellectually deprived, sociologically deprived, but oftentimes very intelligent people. what would make an intelligent person then essentially give up their life to somebody else? >> well, as a former cult member and a licensed mental health counselor who's been working for 20 years, i can tell you that i've counseled literally thousands of people who are very bright, educated.