happen." dr. ezekial emanuel is at the university of pennsylvania. a top health adviser to the incoming biden administration during the transition. welcome, zeke. let me first ask you, it's worth painting the picture, which is china's zero covid policy has been stunningly effective so far. i mean, their deaths are something in the range of 5,000 or 6,000, our death rate is something in the range of 850,000, right? >> yes, we have about 150 times the number of deaths they do and they are a country that's four times our size. so so far on that metric, it looks like their policy has been successful and their measures have been orderly, ours chaotic i think is the appropriate word. >> but the basic point you're making, correct me if i'm wrong, is that by having this super draconian policy of just not allowing any kind of covid, the