thing that will happen in mariupol. >> the white house press secretary jen psaki, ambassador, said that biden has, quote, no plans to visit ukraine for that nato summit. obviously we did see some prime ministers from eastern europe go last week, and some ukrainian officials appealed to biden to do so as a sign of solidarity. obviously it would be incredibly dangerous and raise incredible more macro risks. so i understand why it doesn't make sense. but they of course are under a lot of pressure. but do you think it's the right call for biden to categorically not do that? >> turns out that i was in kyiv the last time, i was serving in kyiv the last time a sitting president was in that country, george bush in 2008. it means a whole lot to a nation to have the president of the united states show up. and so of course that would be a big boost. however, we understand that even