pressure. >> you're acknowledging, i think, mr. holmes, are you not that ukraine very much felt pressured to undertake these investigations? >> it's all hearsay. you can't get a parking ticket conviction based on heart. >> i understand members believe it is hearsay and i am talking about things i heard with my own ears. >> do you think aid was held up at the time of the phone call? >> on the last point on jim yord jordan, laura cooper testified that hours after the president's call with zelensky in july where he brought up that investigation of burisma and biden, the ukrainian embassy said the military was aid was being withheld and there were two e-mails and whether it was a phone call or not and all of that out to ukraine. joe lockhart, white house press secretary during the clinton impeachment hearings and joe schultz, former white house counsel for president trump. so, joe, point after point. >> yeah. >> is what we heard there and