killing jobs is a fair characterization or not? >> they could give everyone subsidies and no one would have a job and paul would think that's wonderful. no one would work. i thought there was a serious problem with unemployment in this country. it turns out obamacare is contributing to it already and more in the future. obamacare is a wonderful liberal social program. if you like your insurance, you lose it. if you like your doctor are, you lose her. if you like your job, you lose it. it's like a perfect example of liberals big government social engineering. it will be studied for decades in public policy schools as the example of the failure of liberal public policy. unfortunately, it's hurting the country now. we'll have to repeal it as soon as possible. >> paul, it does seem, by the way, about the deficit reduction, that's a serious point. but in terms of the jobs, is it really a good thing? you made some points. but is it really a good thing if people choose not to work because of subsidies? >> not because of subsidies, because of values.