it's unclear if there were any mistakes made, but if you've got so many lists coming out of the u.s. government that you become a slave to the list. i'm only going to look at the list, then miss somebody that's not on the list. the list can be bad both ways. >> that's a very good point. i think part of the issue that we have with this case is especially if there were some family members that were aware of radicalization, what is our community engagement strategy like, especially with law enforcement and muslim communities, for example. we've seen in several cases with a alexandria five in virginia, there were concerned individuals that went to the fbi through nongovernmental organizations and said we've got a jihadist problem here. we've got kids going to pakistan radicalized. that did not happen here. that's more than just a list. that's also our ability to have some systematic engagement. >> and a bombing on a train in canada was caught because some people came forward.