they know is going to die? >> i really think that it was probably more than a single meeting. and essentially from my work of 36 years with people in different cult groups, it's an incremental indoctrination beginning with discussing the person's past, maybe showing them some propaganda videos and making them feel guilty perhaps that they're not doing more with their life and not caring enough about god. if he was drinking or someone was using marijuana, maybe he would feel guilty about that. and a step-by-step indoctrination process into a very black and white us versus them, good versus evil, simplistic world and a radical personality change. >> which obviously -- you know, that happened with tamerlan. how did tamer atlanta then do that to his younger brother dzhokhar who you just heard david mattingly report even up until the end was a very avid