about here. that's the really important part. >> meaning? >> meaning we have capacity. we have capacity to do this. let's look at what the borrowing situation is going to be if the government can figure out the debt limit, which probably is a thing you and i ought to spend a minute on before we get out of here, right? the government can borrow money for ten years at a percent and a half. it can borrow for 30 years at a little bit more than that. interest rates are low. they're going to stay low for the foreseeable future, not forever. so we can afford this borrowing now, and it is a small slice of gross domestic product that the government is looking -- the democrats are looking to spend here. i think the challenge now for democrats is to figure out a way to get as much as they possibly can in the time period they have allotted so that they can make it work. >> all right. so $1.2 trillion for infrastructure. >> yep, that's the biff, right? that's the hard infrastructure. >> hard infrastructure. so billions of dollars for roads and bridges, the power grid,