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now. although it is very tough. >> so is this -- if it becomes just a war of attrition with russia just slamming missiles into cities, and you know, ukrainian fighters fighting valiantly and pushing back on the ground, how does that resolve? where does that go? >> well, there are going to be some key points. i think we're seeing some of that right now. mariupol is the perfect example. it is exactly like if you -- if any of your listeners want to look at the battle of grozny chechnya in december of 1994 to '95, it's exactly the same tactics and operations the russian forces used there. >> that's terrifying. >> one city of a smaller size with less people. so what we're seeing is they can't hold kyiv, kharkiv, mariupol, attempt to gain in odesa or some of the -- kerr

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