of a reversion to their earlier relationship, which remember in the spring of 2017 when they first met at their first nato summit, they kind of had the handshake of death to see who could be stronger, but then everything seemed to turn much nicer and, you know, macron invited trump to a military parade in paris. trump loved that. they seemed to have a bromance going, but i think what macron has figured out is he doesn't get anywhere by being nice to trump. and i think other leaders have figured that out as well. you can kiss up to trump, but he'll still kick you in the shins, so you might as well just stand up for yourself and your country. >> he's also notoriously averse to face to face confrontation. he has people fired but he doesn't want to tell them they're fired. he tweets about it or sends a letter. i'm wondering if other leaders are starting to use that to their advantage. >> i'm sure that they will. i think that this -- you know, i'm sure that people in france appreciate macron standing up to trump who's intensely unpopular in europe, and i'm sure other countries will see that and see