the new book is called "double down, game change 2012" and loaded with details how the obama campaign explained dumping joe biden and reed got the idea reid didn't pay income tax and more. the book doesn't come out until next week but jonathan martin has all the incite details and joins us now. it's fascinating on your reporting in this. how serious were they looking into having hillary clinton be the vice president? >> it was serious, not that it was intentionally polled and focused grouped. campaigns don't spend the money unless they are seriously exploring something. it was only known but about a half dozen of the top obama senior advisors, people like david axle rod and most notably the chief of staff william daily, then chief of staff who became close to joe biden. they are similar age, similar background. >> similar background. you talked to him?