not get into the battle, then we wouldn't be here today. that is a loser's plan. >> so you say shut down the government again, let's do it all again but this time just stick to it? >> if that's what it takes to stand on principle and win, yes. absolutely. >> mark, does that make any sense to you? >> i see it as clawing your way to the bottom. i don't think it makes any sense at all. i think we saw where it got us this time. i think we should adopt a different approach. >> well, mark, i hate to tell you that, but my way won for 12 years. we did some pretty amazing things with five margins fighting against really all odds. but we won. your way we lose all the time. >> but congressman, it does sound like you're painting what just occurred here as a victory. i mean, do a lot of people you talk to see it that way? >> i don't see it as a victory. i see it as a great fight. and finally we've got some