could apply to what. because i mean, there was a couple of them in there that wanted to find him guilty of something. and after hours and hours and hours of deliberating over the law and reading it over and over and over again and we decided there's just no way -- other place to go. >> can you talk about the process of the other jurors changing their minds? you talked about the first juror went from second-degree murder to manslaughter, then put out the question to the judge for manslaughter. and then it was basically because of the jury's reading of the law, that everybody finally decided manslaughter doesn't hold? >> that's exactly right. >> was there any holdout? >> there was a holdout.