form of identity. >> compared to dna? they're never going to be -- they are a technique, they're not even a science, jeff. it is done by nonscientists and it is a nonscience. sit a technique. >> the idea that fingerprints are somehow not good identification techniques is frankly absurd. but the point is -- >> really? jeff, why don't you site the case of the lawyer in oregon who was indicted as a terrorist based on the fbi's fingerprint analysis. >> yeah, mark. and you site the tens of thousands of people who are in prison because of finger prints. >> only because they didn't have an expert. >> let me finish. what i'm trying to say is, absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence.