>> joining me is lisa ling who spoke with allen chambers for our america special on the own network. did it surprise you they shut it down? >> id did surprise me when he said he wanted to apologize to all gay people and all people harmed by exodus. it was essentially acknowledging that thousands of people have had their lives severely damaged by exodus, which becked the question, well, then what now? last year, they stopped conducting repairative therapy. this years ago he wants to respond to people, what now? we witnessed what now last night. >> but what does it actually mean? i mean, he's still not saying being gay, is he saying being gay is okay? >> so, although allen won't