Transcripts For CNBC The Kudlow Report 20121228

Sunday night. That stokes investor hopes for a fiscal cliff deal and this coming just a few hours after harry reids comments sent the dow into a tailspin. We have complete coverage in this developing story which is happening tonight as we speak. Also, as supplies from the obama team, ep achieve lisa jackson stepping down. Can the Coal Companies finally breathe a sigh of relief . Guess what happened in britain when the uk banned handguns. The surprising result that could change the gun control debate. The kudlow report start ises right now. The big news tonight, still the developments in washington on the fiscal cliff, eamon javers joins us with the details. Good evening, meshel. Capitol hill sources tell cnbc that congressional leaders are planning to go to the white house tomorrow to meet with president barack obama and it is not entirely clear at this point when that meeting will take place and details are still being hammered out and we saw today a blistering series of rhetorical jabs from one side to the other and its not clear as a result of all that whether a deal can, in fact, get hammered out in the remaining time before new years eve and take a listen to Senate Republican leader Mitch Mcconnell earlier today explaining the problems hes facing in washington. Take a listen. The truth is were coming up against a hard deadline here and as i said, this is a conversation we should have had months ago. And republicans arent about to write a blank check for anything Senate Democrats put forward just because we find ourselves at the edge of the cliff. We do know that the house of representatives has been told that the members there should be back in town here in washington expecting votes on sunday at 6 30 p. M. On sunday and we dont be what that will be and we should get more clarity on that tomorrow if there is, in account fa, a meeting at the white house we might find out what theyre hammering out behind closed doors. Thus far, democrats have refused to do any meaningful entitlement reform and republicans have refused to do anything related to taxes. We both know each side wants a piece of the other to do those exact things and both sides still refuse. Is there anything that means those two factors have changed. We saw it on the stock market today and we saw the wild swings as news developments happened throughout the course of the day. It impacted the market throughout date and if that continues that kind of pressure from the outside could really put some force on these members of congress to come together for a deal. The closer we get the more pressure from the outside theyre going feel and i think it makes it easier, not harder to get a deal in the last 48 to 24 hour space lot of folks have said thats the sweet spot for a deal anyway and theres another group that says were going over this cliff, if even just temporarily, michelle. Thank you, eamon. Just days from heading back to washington, congressman aaron shaw, republican from illinois. Thanks for joining us, representative. You got the call and have to go back to washington sunday, 6 30, what, if anything, are you going to vote on. Do you know . Hopefully the senate would have taken action and its two days until sunday and the house has aked and we passed hr8 which was a clean extension for every american and the senate doesnt agree with us and all we get from harry reid, you saw a fiery rhetoric which doesnt only do good for the markets and it doesnt do good for main street businesses and individuals that are worried about whats going to happen on january 1. We dont need rhetoric out of the senate and the houses worked its will and the houses passed its will and we passed sequestration. With all due respect and listen, you and i are on the same side of the aisle. This country doesnt have a revenue problem. This country has a spending problem, but our side lost. I have posed a question to democrats and the question to republicans. To democrats i said, listen, what if republicans woke up tomorrow and passed tackes on everybody that you wanted to pass taxes on, would you at a minimum, means tax medicare for millionaires and the vast majority said no and to republicans i say, listen, what if the democrats had an epiphany and said representative ryan was right. We should turn medicare into a voucher system. Would you guys be willing to raise taxes on, say, millionaires even though you dont think the country has a revenue problem. Would you be willing to do that . Yes, michelle. In fact, an overwhelming majority of republicans in the house last week would have supported John Boehners proposal to raise taxes on millionaires and we couldnt get a single democrat to join us in this effort. Furthermore, michelle, after the election this past november where you rightly say but so did a majority in the house of representatives as republicans we have a responsibility to stay true to our principles john boehner said to the president you what . You won, but so did we and so well meet you half way. You said you wanted to raise taxes and generate 800 billion in revenue over ten years and well give you the revenue and well give you exactly what you want which is 800 billion in revenue, but lets make good on the Campaign Pledge which is 3 in cuts for every 1 in revenue and president obama didnt meet us half way and he didnt only offer 2. 4 billion in cuts and he wanted twice the revenue. He said 800 billion is what he said during the election. And 6 trillion. Yeah. Spending is not the problem. No, i agree with you. Im sorry. Revenue is not the problem. Yeah. Its been a long week, hasnt it . Good luck on sunday, lets see what happens and well have you back afterward and see whats going on. Lets get the market reaction. Eamon hinted at this, and Capital Growth management and brian kelly, the cofounder of Shelter Harbor capital. Can we bring up that chart again, guys so people can understand what happened today . We are showing you a oneday chart of both the dow, all three, the dow, the nasdaq and the s p. This is a oneday chart. So harry reid comes out and says, folks, we are going off the cliff and the markets start to tumble and tumble and tumble and tumble and then 3 00 in the afternoon you see the sharp rise up and the house is coming back the in the session on sunday night to do something. We dont know what and the markets managed to get back to flat. So ken heebner, the market seemed to care about the deal getting done. Is it going to get done . If it doesnt get done does that mean well have a massive selloff . What do you think . Well, i think the markets been very fearful that a deal would not get done for some time, but you see, in this market, it fell down after obama got reelected, but then its been working its way back up. The fact is that i think a deal will get done and the key part is avoiding incomes under 250,000 and thats probably what theyre going do. Why is that Market Participant or are you speaking politically there . No, im speaking as a Market Participant because the spending for income for people under 250,000 in income is an important economy and that part of the economic spectrum and what they have in their pocket affects what they spend. And i get your point. Were a consumerdriven economy. Broadway an kelly, your assessment about what happens if we dont get a deal . What happens in the markets . I think you saw it this morning and it looked like were doing a full cliff dive and the market started to tank. I agree with the consumer. Look at the consumer con if ied thens morning and that was driving this economy. We had Consumer Confidence at fiveyear highs and it was awful and all due to this uncertainty over the cliff. So if we can get some kind of deal that would be very positive for the consumer and i think wed get a market rally. If we dont, look out. Is the damage already done, brian . When we see what happened with retail sales and coming far weaker than a lot of people expected and you can point to a lot of things and one of them being the fiscal cliff, has a lot of the damage been done, brian . I think it has. Thats a good point and i think what you need to do is put your trader hat on and say im going to trade this for a hope rally, but if youre a longer Term Investor i would use any type of rally to take any profits that i have because i think a lot of damage has been done over the last year. Businesses have been paralyzed and now the consumer has been paralyzed. What advice do you have among people trying to invest amidst this uncertainty. I think long term theyre much more important for factors at work than what happens with this budget deal. Thank goodness. A you will we would do if we went over the cliff from a tax point of view is install the tax structure from the clinton administration. Well show people right now that you like homebuilders and you like retailers, right . Put that up. Heebner likes retail, home building, whats the third one . Automobiles. All earlycycle stocks. I like these stocks because the economy is going to be has a multiyear period of growth ahead of us and the biggest driver is rising housing prices and increase in Residential Construction and apartments and single family. We have an increasing shortage of housing in this family and we cut the production of houses way below the household formation and the industry is going to the Construction Industry will grow and thats going to stimulate the economy because its multiplier affects it. The biggest single impediment has been the huge decline in housing prices for the last five years. This is the First Time Since 2006 2012 would be the First Time Since 2006 that home prices actually rise from a year ago. So one little piece of good news tonight. Guys, thanks so much for joining us. Ken heebner and brian kelly, you can see him on fast money. The markets are optimistic for now, should there be . To discuss the political side of all this, joanne green, and Jonathan Kohl edgeio of american crossroads. Good to see you. Jonathan, let me start with you. Whats your betting here . Are we going get a deal done before monday . All eyes ort senate right now. The congressman had it right. One of the things we lose sight of is twothirds of the pieces of the negotiations are being held by the democrats and whenever harry reid opens his mouth everything is held up in thatted abouty and they passed a bill several months ago and it was a straight democrat vote and it wasnt something that had influence in the house and thats where all of the action is and whether he can get something done in that body is what we need to be looking at. Im sure you see it differently. Harry reid, they passed a bill and the reverse of what they said is the facts and the Senate Passed a bill extending everyones tax cuts under 250k. And boehner can move the senate bill through and hes refusing to because he doesnt want the optics and doesnt want to pass a bill with the majority of democratic votes and he doesnt want to go hat in hand to nancy pelosi. Does this get easier once boehner gets reelected as majority leader . Hopefully we dont get to that point, but that senate bill did not get a single republican vote. Jonathan, answer my question. Does this get easier . Lets pretend were not going have a deal and january 3rd comes and boehner, he hopes gets reelected as speaker of the house, then the deal get easier to get done . This isnt even an issue. Oh, come on you know what im asking here Speaker Boehner will get reelected and thats not the issue and the issue is not to pass something through the senate that can go on to pass the house. John, do you think that the republicans bill which essentially goes after programs for the poor increases military spending . So it adds to the deficit and only is willing to raise taxes on millionaires and above and that is getting through the senate. So what youre saying the reverse is true when you look at the house. Boehner can pass the senate bill tomorrow as harry reid said today, but he doesnt want to do it with democrats and he wants a majority of the majority. Is there anything wrong . Wouldnt you like a bipartisan coming together here and everybodys in this . It would not be at all, and any of the plans at all, joy. And they campaign on three to one spending on we havent seen anything like that come out of the senate. And they will not do anything to come out of the senate. John boehner cant get his own caulk us to take a vote on his idea to only raise the tax rates. He cant even get his own caucus to do that and hes been humiliated over and over by his own caulk us and he can solve it tomorrow. Joy ann, harry reid hasnt passed a budget in years. Hes passed a solution to this crisis. Were talking about the fiscal cliff. It hasnt got ensigned into law. Theres no success yet there. Boehner should move it tomorrow. He should just do that. Jonathan . Listen, the president campaigned on a three to one spending reduction and were not see anything spending here. Democrats controlled twothirds of the chips. Joy ann, why is this all about taxes . One reelection and the it doesnt do that much spending. Its been all about taxes. All about raising taxes. Theres this obsession with raising taxes. It was to go after School Lunches and elderly care, health care for poor kids and increased spending. No, no, no, they want entitlement reform, joy ann. Why this obsession with cutting old peoples medicare . Its not an obsession about cutting benefits to the elderly, joy ann. Its about reforming medicare over time so at some point in the future we dont tell an 80yearold you know what . Youre not going get the medicare cha you thought you would have. This is about not hurting the elderly. The republican solution is to hand 80yearolds a voucher and saying good luck, go into the markets and see what you can get. 80yearolds are not any part of it. Theyre 20, 30 years from now. The president s idea of spending cuts had to do with 700 billion worth of medicare cuts in the past two years ago. And paul ryan endorsed it. Paul ryan endorsed it and that was in ryans plan. Thanks, guys. There was another surprise coming out of washington today. The unexpected resignation of ep achieve lisa jackson. Why is she lng now . Is this good news for coal miners, frackers and the Keystone Pipeline and were about to get more on that story just ahead. Dont forget, free market capitalism is the best path to prosperity and not crushing regulations. The kudlow report is coming right back. Mine was earned off vietnam in 1968. Over the South Pacific in 1943. I got mine in iraq, 2003. Usaa Auto Insurance is often handed down from generation to generation. Because it offers a superior level of protection, and because usaas commitment to serve the military, veterans and their families is without equal. Begin your legacy, get an Auto Insurance quote. Usaa. We know what it means to serve. This is how mommy learned. And now. You [ giggles ] the one and only, cheerios breaking news now. The Associated Press reporting that retired general Norman Schwarzkopf one of the heroes of the first gulf war has died in tampa, florida. He was 78 years old. As we know more well bring it to you. Lisa jackson announce shed is stepping down. Why the prompt departure and could this be new initiatives like the Keystone Pipeline and might we get worse than she is . Is this possible . Chris warner, author of the new book liberal war on transparency. You discovered she was using a secret email as well. Thats why you know a lot about her. Why is she leaving . We revealed that she had a fake identity and it immediately became a question of when, not if, but last week the department of justice agree to begin producing 12,000 Richard Windsor, thats her alias or one of them im told by someone on the inside email beings on epa regard on coal. It was probably a good time to get out given that a, she had to leave with the false identity. Im sure she gets inundated by people complaining about her and trying to get any real Business Done might be difficult with an email that everybody knows. Do you buy that at all . Thats great. Why the fake identity . Everything theyve said so far is nonresponsive. She needs to get advice from aides. Thats great. You have an exemption under the freedom of information act, why the false identity and the unwashed masses know her public email address and its head of the Environmental Protection agency can be very difficult, but why the false identity. You can set up many things other than hiding your identity and 12,000 emails just discussing the war on coal. Thats a lot. Why the false identity is the question that continues to be begged and hopefully we can answer. There wasnt a regulation that she didnt like and she didnt want to impose. Can the Coal Companies breathe easier now . Can we see new Power Generation happening in this country or are we going get someone just like her because theyll want to work for president obama . Right. Heres the thing. She was hailed by Rolling Stone as the most progressive ep achieve ever, but at the end of the day she was effectuating a radical agenda set by the president. This war on coal was set forth when he gave his shellacking press conference and said there were other ways to skin that cat. So youre going to get somebody who wants the job to effectuate his agenda and it wont be anybody much better, i suppose, but the good news may lie on what we find. There are 12,000 emails that by their very nature assuming the false identity that she didnt want the public to see and these on coal. 00 emails addressing maybe there was news in there that was candid and because theyre substantively with a tentative position with the war on coal. The reports that she may be considered to be the next president of princeton university. Do you know anything about that . Have you heard anything about that . Can you possibly get that job . Running a university now is about raising money. Would sheeb able to do that . She certainly alienated the business community. Shes made a lot of friends in the business community. So its possible. I only know rumors about princeton, so im tempted to say we can improve princeton and that wouldnt be fair of me to say. The good news is we have doj agreeing to produce 12,000 emails that by their nature Richard Windsor doesnt want the public to see. Got it. Thank you, chris. He used the phrase called rent seekers and its an economic term. Thats a business that doesnt actually want to compete. They actually just like to call it broad regulators to make sure theres tiles of regulation in place so they dont have to compete anymore. So they just actually seek rent from the space that they managed to occupy for everybody else. The worlds second oldest profession. Yes. So related to politics. All right, chris. That was fun. Thank you. Coming up next, the 380 billion withdrawal. Ordinary american investors selling their shares of stock funds in a very big way. That story when we come back. [ male announcer ] at scottrade, we believe the more you know, the better you trade. So we have ongoing webinars and interactive learning, plus, inbranch seminars at over 500 locations, where our dedicated support teams help you know more so your money can do more. [ rodger ] at scottrade, seven dollar trades are just the start. Our teams have the information you want when you need it. Its another reason more investors are saying. [ all ] im with scottrade. Its another reason more investors are saying. And you see the woman you fell in love with. Shes everything to you. But your erectile dysfunction that could be a question of blood flow. Cialis tadalafil for daily use helps you be Ready Anytime the moments right. You can be more confident in your ability to be ready. 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A spokesman urging ship workers to reach an agreement as soon as possible. The existing agreement expires saturday at midnight and affects ports from massachusetts to texas. Stock prices have doubled since march 09 and that hasnt stopped american investors from selling stocks five gleers a row. An Associated Press Analysis Shows individual investors have pulled at least 380 billion u. S. Stock funds from april 2007 and its the first time ordinary investors have sold during a bull market since world war ii. Mortgage rates headed down last week according to freddie mac. The 30year fixed rate average was 3. 35 , just 0. 04 from the 40year lowest on record since 1971. The average on 30year fixed rates was 3. 66 , the lowest in 65 years. Michelle, it seems like a good time to buy. Yeah, maybe. Thank you, seema, if you can get the loan. Why when we just upgraded their trade status in were about to get answers from a russian expert just ahead. [ male announcer ] this december, remember you can stay in and share something. Or you can get out there and actually share something. The lexus december to remember sales event is on. This is the pursuit offection. Report. Im michelle carusocabrera. Gun control advocates talk about great laws in gun ownership if Great Britain. Theres only one problem, they dont work. They seem to have made things even worse. Well talk more about that and it happens to almost all of us, a close family or friend dies and we go through the grieving process and top american psychiatrists say you should take a pill for that. Is this the latest way to cope with grief or to cut healthcare costs. Ban adoption from one nation to the next. Its about to happen in russia. Where moscow is going to approve a ban on american couples only from adopteding russian children. We just improved our trade relations with them, why are they doing this . Have our relations with the putin regime deteriorated that much . Senior fellow with the center of Transatlantic Relations at Johns Hopkins university. What is this really about . This is about Vladimir Putin playing to his base which is nationalistic and poor as hes losing moscow and its about Vladimir Putin sending a signal to the United States that he does not want us interfering in russias internal affairs and this is a convenient way to send that message. Lets, explain why they would think that with this trade status improvement there was a little clause that said if someone violates human rights in russia youre not going to be able to get a vase to get in here. What is this law called . The magity insky bill. Sergei died in prison. Who helped kill him. The reason he was in prison, hes a lawyer. He was defending a guy who is a frequent guest on cnbc, William Rattner who got ripped off by Russian Police officerses. Yes. Those Police Officers were promoted and browder has pushed the bill forward with the white house to go forward with it and he worked with congress with a bunch of allies who supported him. Ive been reading kissingers book on china, but he raisess broader question which is important. Unfathomable as it is to americans there are parts of the world where they do not believe in alienable rights, right . They dont believe in human rights in the way that we do. Exactly. And when we try to impose it on them they consider it a violation of their sovereignty. Exactly. China feels that way often. Russia, same thing. How far do we go in promoting human rights . The trade off that well get here. The law gets passed and human rights violators in russia cant come year and now 1,000 children dont come to the United States and people who want them dont get them. My personal view, no. Theyre glad to take our money and theyve long had to put their money overseas, but they do not want human rights promotion and weve seen that inside russia and weve seen that against the crockdown on the internet and this is just the latest interaction of the series of things going back for more than a year against the political opposition and what they see is the u. S. Sponsored frankly regime change. How far do we go . If we didnt do business with countries that violate human rights, we would dont business from china and lets not kid anybody, thats not going happen. I think ultimately the u. S. And the white house which largely tilts toward the economic emphasis of the relationship and the white house has to realize and it is realizing that the congress and other elements of the american political establishment has to get along with whatever management they have in russia and the white house has played a tightrope promoting trade and also saying they promote human rights and you cannot go on like this forever. I know hes had different titles and hes running the country. Hes the boss. Is he a thug . To me he looks like a thug. Hes a very tough guy and those who dont go along with him have to go a long way and the u. S. Is seen as someone who wont go along with the plan and thus becoming increasingly the enemy and his own support is diminishing and they largely support the magnitsky bill and its in the provinces where the nationalistic moore support is increasing the base that he needs to keep onboard and thats another reason why hes acting the way he did on this bill. We appreciate it. . Thank you. Europes fiscal woes dominated the american markets most of the year. The fragile european economy not out of the woods just yet. Here is jimmy pathakukas of the institute. It was barrons just this week. This is the year to invest in europe. Do you disagree with that or can the two Work Together . Well, you know, they say the United States dont fight the fed. In europe you would say dont fight the ecb as long as they believe that they would do whatever it takes to keep the euro together, i guess thats a positive, but remember, you have an economy back in recession that was in terrible shape to begin with and i think you have a lot of austerity fatigue going on spain, italy, portugal, certainly greece. So you have those economic woes. The euro is not going to thrive and it may survive thanks to the ecb, but youre not going to get that economy to thrive, and the fiscal union ask those are very slow going and though they may be moving quickly by european standards and ive been given the magnitude of the problem going very slowly. How should people be thinking about this . The average american, and theyve been hearing about it for so long and theyre not sure it will affect their pocketbook. Do you think they will . And theres this incredible chance that greece will leave and the dominos will begin to fall. I think thats unluikely to happen as long as the ecb is willing to support that currency, but will it thrive . Will those economies boom . I dont think so, i think it will be another year of recession and you will find individual opportunities and the stock pickers market and far as its a strong growth, theyre not there yet. Thanks so much for joining us. Good to see you tonight. You heard piers morgan talk about it with larry last week. After School Shooting massacre in scotland in 1996 Great Britain banned virtually all handguns, seized them from people who already owned them. Piers says it worked great, except it didnt. Youre about to find out just how badly its turned out and why we in america should pay attention. People really love snapshot from progressive, but dont just listen to me. Listen to these happy progressive customers. I plugged in snapshot, and 30 days later, i was saving big on car insurance. With snapshot, i knew what i could save before i switched to progressive. The better i drive, the more i save. I wish our company had something this cool. Youre not filming this, are you . Aw camera shy. Snapshot from progressive. Testdrive snapshot before you switch. Visit progressive. Com today. We believe the more you know, the better you trade. So we have ongoing webinars and interactive learning, plus, inbranch seminars at over 500 locations, where our dedicated support teams help you know more so your money can do more. [ rodger ] at scottrade, seven dollar trades are just the start. Our teams have the information you want when you need it. Its another reason more investors are saying. [ all ] im with scottrade. Its another reason more investors are saying. Well, if itmr. Margin . Margin. Dont be modest, bob. You found a better way to pack a bowling ball. That was ups. And who called ups . You did, bob. I just asked a question. It takes a long time to pack a bowling ball. The last guy pitched more ball packers. But you. You consulted ups. You found a better way. Thats logistics. Thats margin. Find out what else ups knows. Ill do that. Youre on a roll. Thats funny. I wasnt being funny, bob. I know. To the best vacation sp all the gulf it doesnt matter which of our great states folks visit. Mississippi, alabama, louisiana or florida, theyre gonna love it. Shaul, your alabama hospitality is incredible. Thanks, karen. Love your mississippi outdoors. I vote for your florida beaches, dawn. Bill, this louisiana seafood is delicious. Were having such a great year on the gulf, weve decided to put aside our rivalry. Now is the perfect time to visit anyone of our states. The beaches and waters couldnt be more beautiful. Take a boat ride, go fishing or just lay in the sun. Weve got coastline to explore and wildlife to photograph. And theres world class dining with our world famous seafood. So for a great vacation this year, come to the gulf. Its all fabulous but i give florida the edge. Right after mississippi. You mean alabama. Say louisiana or theres no dessert. This invitation is brought to you by bp and all of us who call the gulf home. A number ofec perts are saying Small Businesses will get hit the worst if we go over the fiscal cliff. Is that true . Hes weekly columnist for the New York Times and the huffington post. It depends on the Small Business. Its funny when people say all Small Businesses will be affected if the fiscal cliff does hit, but dont forget, theres over 20 million Small Businesses in this country and it depends what business youre in, where youre located and what business youre in and where your customers are and there are factors when you start to generalize. We hear it mostly on the taxation side. If you raise taxes on people who make more than 250,000 dont forget a lot of Small Businesses file as individuals and make more than 250,000. Its absolutely true. I mean, but most Small Businesses, particularly my readers and the clients that i have, theyre bracing for that. It seems an ineshvitablility th there will be increases in Capital Gains and Interest Rates and estate taxes next year and that all seems to be on the board. Health care will get more expensive if they provide it. Michelle, remember, its not going cripple many Small Businesses. Its a deterrent from them investing and its a deterrent from them hiring people and its a deterrent against them hurting and it will not put the clients and people i know out of business. It just hinneders them from growing and thats my biggest concern. Hindering them from growing and hibbndering them from hirin. And were talking about the taxation side. And what about the sequestration side, i hate that word, the cutting and spending side. There are all these indiscriminate cuts that happen across the board and they happen in defense and in medical as well. How much are those providing services to those sectors of the economy. One is my sister. Shes a doctor and runs two medical practices here in the philadelphia area and shes a Small Business owner and it will hit her pretty hard because medicaid payments will be cut. People in other industries, particularly like you had said, tied to defense, those people will be hurting as well. However, if youre in the accounting business, what with the increase of taxes not such a bad year for you next year so it depends on what kind of business youre in. Oh, yeah. If you prepare tax filings youre going to its great, right . The more complicated the taxes get the better it is for you. Its terrible. You got it. Legal profession, if youre in temporary services because people want to hire, not such a bad year for you or if you provide some type of Technology Services that will Save Companies money or reduce their overhead also not such a bad outlook. It happeneds on the Small Business that youre in, absolutely, some will go through painful adjustments and theres no question, but there are 20 million Small Businesses and out there and some of them will be doing not so bad. Jim, good to see you. Thanks for joining us from philadelphia. Thank you. Take a look at piers morgan interviewed by larry last week. We had this in Great Britain, scotland, 15 children killed by a maniac. Everybody on the left and right came together and said enough. All handguns in britain were banned. All of them. My next guest writes in the wall street journal today that mimicking Great Britain on gun control isnt such a great idea. Why . Because ever since that ban went into place in the uk gun violence has doubled. Here now is professor Joyce Lee Malcolm and author of guns and violence, the english experience. Thanks for joining us professor, give us a look at what happened in the uk after the banning of guns. There was a tremendous emotional response and the guns were banned and those people who owned them and the government knew where they were because they were all registered were required to hand them in even the target shooting olympic team was not allowed to keep guns in the country and they had to practice and keep their guns abroad, but nonetheless, within the decade of guns being withdrawn from these people gun crime with handguns actually doubled and guns are really are awash on the streets and theres a fair amount of street crime using handguns which there hadnt been much of before, and its beyond which was something that traditionally they never were. So it hasnt worked and what it has done and its taken the guns away from the lawabiding people that might have used them to protect themselves or to do Something Else with legitimately. What do you say to people who look at United States and say, wow random mass murderers i heard it today. Random mass murders in the United States where some whacko killed a bunch of people he doesnt know seems to happen every six months in the United States and it doesnt happen as often in other places. Are they wrong about that . How do you wrap your head around that . Well, i dont think it happens all that often, although there are copycat acts like what weve seen recently, but britain after they banned the handguns and restricted other guns had another massacre in 2010. I think that you really just have to look at the kind of people who are committing these crimes and how best to control them and treat them, but simply taking guns away from lawabiding people is no answer and it leaves them defenseless. What about australia . Similar . Australia, actually the person who perpetrated the port arthur massacre did it within six weeks of the massacre in scotland was a copy cat. This was a person who had a record of violent behavior since childhood and managed to kill a lot of people with long guns rather than the handguns and the new Prime Minister of australia at that time got the provinces or states to agree on on strict gun control that he absolutely banned these guns that had been used in the crime and tightened all of the other restrictions, and i should say in australia and Great Britain that there was very strict gun control with these massacres and that had not stopped them and in australia, while there are not any more gun massacres there have been massacres using arson and knives and other means. Im glad you raise that because we began a gun control debate last night on the kudlow report and on my face book page we announced them and there was this outpouring of debate and there are always going to be whackos who want to do things, but if they use a knife they wont be as deadly as someone who uses a gun and thats why we should ban guns. Does that float with you . They did use a knife for a massacre and also arson, gas. There are other ways if youre determined to kill a lot of people, and in fact, one of the issues had been that a lot of suicides had been committed with guns and those went down in australia, but suicide by other means went up. So what should we do, if anything, do you think . I think the best thing is well, there are two things. I think you need to try to set up some better way to deal with the people who are really violent and mentally ill and weve seriously fallen short on that because many of these people are not only ill, but people knew they were a danger and the other thing is these people who want to commit a massacre and something labelled a gunfree zone, the Aurora Shooting at that batman film took it as a gunfree zone. There were other theaters in that area showing the bat man film, but the shooter went to the theater that made it clear that no one there was going to have a weapon. You bring up a good point. I asked last night on the show to a gun control advocate and if we handed out signs, this is a gunfree home, zero, right . Because they think they would be inviting people to choose them over somebody else who maybe does have a gun, right . We seem to think that this is a good idea in places where in Public Places where people congregate. Its odd because people want to advertise that they didnt have any means of protecting themselves. In places like israel theres almost always someone armed so schools do not get attacked that way or streetcorners where somebody might want to commit an atrocity. Theres somebody in the area who is armed and, of course, 39 of our states have these shall conceal and carry laws and theyre there because theres a sense that they really deter crime and it will mean that very few people will be attacked because theyll know who is armed and who isnt. Professor, thank you for inviting us. Thanks for having me. Professor Joyce Lee Malcolm. Youve heard of taking pills for depression, should you take a pill for sadness . Some psychiatrists say yes. Some say thats not a good idea and hes worried about where this will take us. Mine was earned off vietnam in 1968. Over the South Pacific in 1943. I got mine in iraq, 2003. Usaa Auto Insurance is often handed down from generation to generation. Because it offers a superior level of protection, and because usaas commitment to serve the military, veterans and their families is without equal. Begin your legacy, get an Auto Insurance quote. Usaa. We know what it means to serve. An update on the developing story out of washington tonight. The white house confirms there will be a facetoface meeting on the fiscal cliff tomorrow. The president , Speaker Boehner, harry reid, nancy pelosi, Mitch Mcconnell will all be there. This could be the beginning of a real endgame for the fiscal cliff conflict. We will keep you updated on any new developments tonight and throughout the day tomorrow on cnbc. Now the American Psychiatric Association Says it is okay to give antidepressants to people who are grieving over a recently lost loved one. Again, these people are not diagnosed with clinical depression. These are people who have suffered a real loss. Can a pill really help you with that . Here now is Beverly Hills psychiatrist dr. Carol lieberman. Is this a good idea . Thank you. The whole Mental Health system is actually falling apart and it goes beyond bereavement and depression. Actually, bereavement has a lot of similarities to major depression or at least in some peoples cases. The depression comes from loss. So whether its the loss of a job or a loss of a relationship or a loss of a loved one there really are similar symptoms like a sense of sadness like loss of interest or pleasure in activities that you were involved with before, sleeping changes, eating changes. I always thought antidepressants were for people who felt like that all of the time regardless of what was happening in their life. No, major depression is usually thought of as people who haves genetic predisposition of depression. You can find family members that have had depression and there is something that happens in their life that triggers it. In that sense you can compare it to bereavement, but, you know, its just like you can think of a cough. There can be lots of Different Reasons why people get coughs. You could be eating crackers that make you cough, you can have pneumonia or cancer. You can give someone a lozenge, but if you dont get to the bottom of why this punish has a cough they can die. Its the same thing in psychiatry, if you dont have psycho therapy along with whatever pills people are given, thats the problem. Today psychiatrists because of insurance, psychiatrists have been turned into pill pushers. I call it in and out burger psychiat psychiatry, its ridiculous. Too many psychiatrists are doing midvisits. A midvisit is a 15 to 30minute visit where all you talk about where the patient is the medication, their side effects. When youre talking about all of this i want to pivot with a different topic that i was talking about with the professor. I think its been a travesty in the wake of newtown, and yes, we should have a conversation about gun control and there should be parody with taking care of the Mental Health of americans. That discussion has been drowned out or lost or lost or never, ever happened. Mr. Lanza was obviously a very sick individual and needed help. Im not sure the Mental Health discussion has gotten enough attention. What do you think . No, it hasnt. In fact, whats been happening is, of course, theres been more stereo typing stereotyping ever people with Mental Illness calling these people crazy. Yes, he probably did have autism and or aspergers, but people with those disorders dont generally become violent and whats interesting is that on some of the stories on the internet there are people who have made posted comments blaming what he did because there have been some unconfirmed reports that maybe he was take something medication. People have made comments blaming the shooting rampage on the medication. This isnt true. The problem is that people anybody who needs medication needs to be in therapy. Weekly psycho therapy and thats where the system is falling down. Yeah. All right. Dr. Lieberman, thank you so much. We really appreciate it. Its one of the discussions that i think we need to have more of. What to do with the situation with Mental Health. It was totally lost during the obama care discussion and its still getting lost here as well in the wake of newtown. Good to see you tonight. We really appreciate it. Thats it for tonights show. Thanks so much for watching and well be back here tomorrow night and you have to stay tuned and something can actually happen on the fiscal cliff. Can we all rise of above tomorrow . Maybe its possible. Tune in. [ male announcer ] you are a business pro. Executor of efficiency. You can spot an amateur from a mile away. While going shoeless and metalfree in seconds. And you. Rent from national. Because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle. And go. You can even take a fullsize or above, and still pay the midsize price. Now this. Will work. [ male announcer ] just like you, business pro. Just like you. Go national. Go like a pro. I honestly loved smoking, and i honestly didnt think i would ever quit. [ male announcer ] along with support, chantix is proven to help people quit smoking. It reduces the urge to smoke