Transcripts For CNBC Squawk Box 20121121

The nasdaq down by about 12. Because of tomorrows holiday, you do have the Labor Department coming out, releasing its weekly jobless claims numbers today. We get them a day early instead of a day late. Also today well be getting Weekly Mortgage rates. And freddie mac will report on the Weekly Mortgage rate averages as well. Lets talk about the top Global Market story this morning. It is greeces International Lenders, which did not reach a deal, and now they wont be releasing that next bailout payment. Nearly 12 hours of talks failed to reach a consensus. The imf and the central bank all going to gather again on monday to try again, but this is not necessarily good news at all. Hostess brands will proceed with a plan to go out of business. The maker of twinkies says lastminute talks with the striking workers broke down yesterday, hearing with a bankruptcy judge set for 11 00 eastern time. Then we have another string of bad news. A bad development. A very bad development. I thought for sure they were going to find some sort of deal. I opened all the box of stuff we were hoarding. I was assuming there would be a deal. There was no chance of a deal. I thought there was. They were losing 10 million, 15 million a year. Theyre not going to go away. We were just talking about how nice it is that we are nostalgic. I havent bought a pack of twinkies in 20 years, but i dont want them to go away. I want my kids to know about them. With kyle growing up, hes not going to know. People around the country heard hostess is going away, and theyre like what . Did you notice it was front page of every newspaper . It wasnt just like one story. There were multiple stories in every newspaper. Yeah. As far as autonomy goes i like what the guy is saying. Hewlettpackard is using it as a crappy acquisition. Theres something strange about this story. Im still convinced theres something off about this story. With the hp side of it. Its not to suggest there wasnt fraud or something else, but the other thing that they didnt call it fraud or try to imply even more heavily. They even call it malfeasance. Thats from potter. You going to watch potter . I will. If youd like me to. You watch its a wonderful life . Every man should watch it. You watch it every year . No, but i do like it. I cry. Its the only movie i really cry for. The fbi and s. E. C. When his ears hurt and doesnt know that it was poison that he sent to the kid. I did it for you the s. E. C. Said to be probing these allegations about hewlettpackards allegation of autonomy. Hp said it was a victim of a multibilliondollar fraud. Mean tile, the founder of autonomy and former Ceo Mike Lynch is telling cnbc that he was shocked by the allegations and he blamed hp for mismanagement. Were talking about a massive elephant in the room that wasnt spotted and the reason it wasnt spotted s very simple, it wasnt there. It was done in their own words meticulously and great detaille then they actually ran the company, including doing all of the books for the last four quarters. Shares of hp were not as bad as they were at certain points yesterday, but thats this mornings trading, so it doesnt really show you where it was yesterday. I think it closed above 13. And it hurt the dow, even though the dow managed to just close down in single digits. You dont think theres something wrong with this story, though . Also, by the way, if youre mike lynch if you actually thought there was even a chance that you were going to jail over this or that there was a real issue you would have shut your mouth. Youre on lockdown. I dont know which side is weirder on this. I cant imagine hp bringing this without having some serious oh, absolutely. Serious evidence that points to this direction. Its very strange that they never contacted the ceo, the former ceo of autonomy when they did this. He actually talked to all things digital, too. And he told these guys that hp jacked up the price on Autonomy Software by 30 , which drove away customers. But notably not paid commissions to sell Autonomy Software, which is interesting. Shc capital is another story. It says it will continue to cooperate with the government. Yesterday prosecutors charged a former employee of the firm with Insider Trading. But steve coen is said to have personally signed off on the series of transaction. The government alleges that former s. A. C. Employee helped the firm avoid losses and bring profits in totaling 276 million by using insider tips he got from a doctor about test results. Prosecutors are calling this the most lucrative Insider Trading scheme ever. And the last time that people said well, of course we do what, they pay research organizations. Expert networks and all this. Expert networks. People that are paid to know how do you could even go and talk to i guess can you talk to some of the patients that are in the Clinical Trial and get some anecdotal evidence . You might be allowed to do that. This is different. This is the guy whos running it. And hes telling the investor what to do. The question i have and ive known steve coen for a long time. I have a huge amount of respect for him. Does he know what hes getting . Thus far theyve been trying to go after steve forever. And it always seemed one or two or three steps removed. The way that firm is structured is such that traditionally he has not been involved in trades. However, in this particular case, he seems to have been involved in the trade, at least maintains plausible deniability. Hes always maintained plausible deniability. In this case, they described him as Portfolio Manager a and say he was consulted. If you are going to go make what turned out to be a billiondollar trade or even a half a billiondollar trade, someone is going to say why are we doing this . Unless youre going to say well, i woke up in the morning and had a hunch that this is a bad id idea although, if you take that to court proceedings, the idea of trying to prove its still three links, right . This guy who came to stevie cohn had information from somebody else. Youre wondering why it wasnt smart enough to put up a flag. Im just saying if youre going to make a huge trade, youll be asking questions about why are we making this trade. Because we know were going to be right. I hear you. I would have tripled it. Im trying to ask the Butterball Turkey the right questions. The one thing about getting old is i dont remember what i asked her last year. Dont you have some questions . I do. I remember what we asked her last year. Do you make a turkey . Or are you like paul mccartney, do you make some sort of tofu. One thing you cant do in the city, which i wish we could do deep fried turkey. I would love to do a deep fried turkey. Mark bitman is suggesting that you break the turkey in two and do what he calls a flat turkey. Its supposed to be really tasty. After its dead. Yes, after its dead. Pitas not going to like that. How could you actually break a turkey . Down middle or front back . Did you see that pita is protesting the president s pardon . I didnt understand that. They said dont pardon him. Why . All going down with the ship . Because its done anyway. I dont know. It was very strange position to take. All right. Well, do you have any questions . I was going to talk about flattening the turkey. She knows a lot. I want to know if you flatten the turkey, how do you deal with the stuffing . I remember what i asked last year. I dont remember everything. The stuffing inside, do you stuff it in really night. Thats right. You dont stuff it in tight. But you also dont stuff it the night before either. No. That would be really bad. Because a lot of stuff can grow and even if you cook it, it doesnt kill it, and then you can have that thing that happened to me anyway after thanksgiving. Lets talk about black friday, too. That day is traditionally the official kickoff to the Holiday Shopping season, but this year it is starting even earlier. Many retailers will be opening tomorrow on thanksgiving. Meantim meantim meantime,ecommerce is growing. I guess thats an overall number, going from 15 of overall sales to 18 . We will talk retail in the next halfhour. We have the ceo of toys r us joining us. The National Labor Relations Board says it is unlikely to make any decision on walmarts request to stop worker rallies. The retailer has faced months of protests outside some of its stores. It filed an unfair labor practice complaint last week calling the worker rallies unlawful attempts to disrupt its business. Wall streets industry funded watchdog is threatening to suspend morgan keagans license unless it meets certain conditions. It is said the firm is not complying with ruling in favor of retired basketball star horace grant. You remember horace grant . I remember him. Chicago bulls. Morgan keagan recently paid grant 1. 6 million in a bitter dispute. They say the broker now owes 333,000 in interest. Also, News Corporation has reportedly expressed interest to cbs about mortgaging the companys book businesses. The talks involved combining Harper Collins and simon and shuster. A deal is not imminent, but i can say as someone whos married to someone in the book business, we just had the deal between random house and penguin. Penguin works on your book. Okay. The fda has approved the first seasonal flu vaccine produced using animal cell culture that. Is different from the traditional manufacturing which uses chicken eggs. Its a speedier process, which could help build stockpiles in the event of a pandemic. Thats always been the worry that takes too long when you use eggs. Flight attendants at u. S. Airways voted to authorize a strike to workers that voted down a contract that the airline had proposed twice this year. The airline, as you probably know, andrew loves this story, too, is in talks with American Airlines about a potential merger. Should have done this eight months ago, they would have saved themselves a lot of heartache. This is just dragging out for no reason. Yeah. You just figure theyre meant to be together. Otherwise amr is meant to be nowhere is sort of the issue. In Global Market news, japan logging its fourth straight trade deficit in october. The european debt crisis with china over a territorial dispute actually reduced exports. And we continue to follow the latest developments out of the middle east. Secretary of state Hillary Clinton traveled to the west bank this morning to meet with palestinian president mahmoud abbas. Abbas heads the west bank, while the Palestinian Militant Group hamas controls the gaza strip. Hamas is considered a terrorist organization by the United States because it continues to refuse to recognize israel as a state. The United States has a policy of not negotiating with terrorist organizations. Thats why shes not speaking with anyone in gaza. Her visit comes hours after a meeting with israeli officials that lasted late into the night. Lets take a look at the markets this morning. We already showed you the futures. They are down slightly. Dow futures down by about 23 points. In europe this morning, youll see that also, by the way, a lot happened yesterday. Ben bernanke started talking, when he raised some concerns about the fiscal cliff, that once again put pressure on the markets. Thats when things turned down yesterday. Youll see in europe, barely budging at this point. In france, the cac is up by about a point. The ftse is down by less than five points. In germany, the dax is up by less than three points. Overnight in asia, youll see that in japan, the nikkei was up by about. 8 of a percent. The shanghai composite up by about 1 . The hang seng was up by 1. 4 . Oil prices also up slightly, up about 72 cents. Not near the higher levels that we had seen because of the concerns in the middle east. 84. 7 is where wti stands. The tenyear note is yielding 1. 661 . We do have those numbers coming out. The dollar sup across the board. Euro is at 1. 28. Gold prices this morning are indicated up just barely up by about 2. 60. Lets go across the pond. Ross westgate is standing by for us in london. Ross, good morning to you. Good morning, andrew. Good to see you ahead of thanksgiving. Becky called it. Were pretty flat here in europe. The dow jones being outpaced a little bit more. As you say, the focus very much on the Euro Group Meeting which broke up in the early hours of today with still no agreement on when to give greece their payment. This time, it isnt greeces fault. Theyve done everything possible. Its just that we cant get agreement between the imf and the ecb and individual eurozone finance ministers on what the sustained plan should be. We know in the eurozone, they want to push back the debt maturities by a couple of years, maybe reduce Interest Rate payments. We know theyre saying look, the debt is just not sustainable, youre going to have to have Debt Forgiveness and therefore Public Sector involvement, some writeoffs and the eurozone finance ministers are not ready for that. Angela merkel did come out and say look, we can find a way to close the gap here. Could expand the use of the esfs. Uk bond figures fairly disappointing as well this morning. Eight and a half billion for the month of october. Analysts were forecasting six billion. Puts pressure on the uk chancellor in a couple of weeks. Thats where we stand. Happy thanksgiving to one and all. Ross, thank you. You guys dont celebrate thanksgiving over there. They have their own day of thanks. They cant stand it. This is one we made good without them. They tried to tax us without representation. I think july 4th is probably worse. Either way, they hate both of those holidays. Ross, do you hate thanksgiving . No, i dont hate thanksgiving. 400 years ago, they gave thanks for the pilgrim fathers to leave, i think. There you go. They didnt want us anyway. Now look what happened. Oh. Hes 007. Good luck with the turkey, by the way. Thank you, ross. We appreciate it. Have a great day or so. Well see you back here on friday. They probably dont like any of our holidays. Christmas. Very jealous. They have places in london with a good thanksgiving. I remember when i lived in london, ross could participate in this. That was big of him. I was going to ask him about thanksgiving, but he extended a happy thanksgiving. I could tell it was tinged with a little resentment. Not from ross. Still to come on squawk, we have a wellknown name to our viewers. Jim chanos, hell be joining us in just a few minutes. Before you hit the road, heres your travelers check. Trying to get somewhere for the holiday . According to orbit, here are the busiest airports this thanksgiving weekend. So, which airports may be a lot more stressfree . Find out next. [ male announcer ] you are a business pro. Monarch of marketing analysis. With the ability to improve roi through seo all by cob. And you. Rent from national. Because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle. And go. You can even take a fullsize or above, and still pay the midsize price. Im going big. [ male announcer ] good choice business pro. Good choice. Go national. Go like a pro. I heard you guys can ship ground for less than the ups store. Thats right. Ive learned the only way to get a holiday deal is to camp out. You know weve been open all night. Is this a trick to get my spot . [ male announcer ] break from the holiday stress. Save on ground shipping at fedex office. Chicago and l. A. X. Will be the busiest airports, here are the airports which will be the least busy. Welcome back, everybody. Reynolds wolf is standing by at the weather channel. Hes got a look at your thanksgiving forecast. Whats the forecast like today for all these people who are hitting the roads, trying to fly to the places they want to be tomorrow . Well, hold on a second. What was that video you just showed about the places that are the least busy . Im going to show you the places that are the most busy. Ill get to be the bearer of bad news . Yes, take it away, reynolds. The eastern part of the country is going to be just fine. Windy conditions can be expected along the carolinas. Its going to be very breezy out there along highway 12. Mostly sunny today in the midwest. Central plains look good. Temperatures in parts of the midwest will be ten to 20 degrees above normal. Unfortunately, its not going to last. We get the wind, the rain, the mountain snow continues. But now, air travel, okay, the bad news. Lets begin. In seattle, portland and san francisco, you could see some moderate delays in a few places. Dont be surprised, the wind really picks up this afternoon. We do expect it to happen. In seattle, you may have some bigger delays. So far, nothing to report. That could change just by sheer volume of traffic. But in terms of air issues weatherwise, its all going to be out west. These are going to be the two big sores at least travelwise. Lets kick it back to you guys. Reynolds, thank you. And by the way, have a great thanksgiving. Are you back on friday . I will be back here on friday. Look forward to seeing you guys. Okay, have a great thanksgiving. Well see you soon. Bernanke, yesterday the fed chief warned that central bankers cant rescue the u. S. Economy if it goes over the fiscal cliff. Paul is president of financial capital. Given that were talking about this so much with these guys not around, all we do is we keep showing how much time we have as its ticking down. When they do get back, paul, how do you think that the deal looks if they do put one together, and do they get it done . Good morning, and happy thanksgiving to yall. We all know its getting done, whether it gets done before christmas or in january, a deals going to get done. I think also everyone knows taxes are unfortunately taxes are going to go up. I dont know its going to be at the 250 level. Maybe at the 500 or milliondollar level. But taxes are going to go up and expenses are going to get cut. So we all wish they would stop the jawboning and positioning and politicking, sit in a room with dulls, both give in a little bit and move on. But theyre going to push and push and push and the markets will push a deal to get it done. So if you were trying to decide what to do, would you just stand pat with equities . What would you do . You know, weve had to sell off, and for a lot of people that was a good thing. We got down to the 1340 level, which was an interesting level to hold. But a lot of people, as weve talked about over the last three or four months, were on the sidelines and missed. This so theyll have to start grabbing some stocks. Theyve gotten the break that they needed to at least get into this game. But this is a very interesting game thats going on. Yesterday, i thought there was an interesting article. Dave cote from honeywell, the guy who runs the Defense Sector there is he french now . No, whats his name . Very sophisticated. They were talking about how defense has to be cut and i think thats an important statement. I think this whole thing starts with the defense cuts and Everything Else will fall in line. I do think well get some resolution on this, whether it spills into the new year doesnt matter. I think everybody is preparing for the imminent tax hike anyway. Its just going to come. On the issue of dividends and capital gains, that will be hung out there, will we go up to the ordinary, i dont think so. I think it will be some compromise. Its not that im hoping that, but i think that there will be. Does it matter if we so we cave. Were afraid, we dont want anything bad to happen. So were going to raise some taxes. Were going to cave, but were not going to really cut spending, we dont want to hurt anyone. This is what we do and no one could fail. You know, a couple years ago is it bad that we dont take our medicine now that we have an opportunity to, paul . Yeah, i think it is bad. Weve run out of painless solutions. Weve come to the solutions were not going to become greece. I totally dismiss that argument. Are we just going raise taxes and not cut spending . We got to a huge government ten years ago, and in the last ten years, we probably tripled what we had ten years ago. Right. And previous obama the republicans lost their fiscal prudent way. That was part of the problem. But expenses are going to get cut. Its going to be from both sides. No matter what we do, unless we kick the can for six months, its going to lead to a mild recession. I dont care how you slice it. Raising taxes and cutting spending, austerity or revenue increases is not good for the economy in the short term. In the long term, thats what were banking on, that growth someday gets back to 3 or 4 . Joe, you gave me a great segue here. Im holding up the speech. Its the tenyear anniversary of the so called bernanke helicopter speech to the day, november 21st, 2002. Here it is. And he talks about the fiscal policy because i was reading it last night, just to go back. Its amazing what it says in there. Really referring to friedmans helicopter drop. But hell be there. And he told them yesterday, were not the only game in town now. Its time for the congress to step up. Speaking of a man who knows another thing or two about chopper, andrew ross s supervisor sorkin. Well return after this short break. Twins. I didnt see them coming. I have obligations. Cute obligations, but obligations. I need to rethink the core of my portfolio. What i really need is sleep. Introducing the ishares core, Building Blocks for the heart of your portfolio. Find out why 9 out of 10 large professional investors choose ishares for their etfs. Ishares by blackrock. Call 1800ishares for a prospectus which includes investment objectives, risks, charges and expenses. Read and consider it carefully before investing. Risk includes possible loss of principal. Or that printing in color had to cost a fortune. Nobody said an allinone had to be bulky. Or that you had to print from your desk. At least, nobody said it to us. Introducing the business smart inkjet allinone series from brother. Easy to use. Its the ultimate combination of speed, small size, and lowcost printing. Part of a whole new line of tablets from dell. Its changing the conversation. Good morning, and welcome back to squawk box here on cnbc. Im joe kernen along with becky quick and andrew ross sorkin. U. S. Futures are kind of flat. Looks like yesterday. Maybe it is. No, we probably changed the boards. Its exactly what we showed yesterday when we ended down about seven points or so. Dont expect a lot of action. We were up yesterday before we heard from hp. We were actually up . We were up. We were looking at positive because it was the first time you had a big rally and saw the green arrows. It was up and then it was down. Does anybody in there remember . It was down like 20 and then it went down like 40. It changed into six. Nonetheless, lets talk about hp. The drama surrounding hewlettpackard has another player pointing fingers. Mike lynch on closing bell late yesterday lashing out at hps management. No, theres no basis here for saying that theres an 8. 8 billion difference. That is a massive amount. I dont believe you could do Due Diligence with all those people, all those experts, many of which those people are still at hewlettpackard, of course. And see something missing that was that big and not notice it. The only reason you cannot notice it is it wasnt there. Hewlettpackards problems are no surprise to jim chanos, who told cnbc in july that he was shorting hp. The reason we got interested in hewlettpackard was not only the macro stuff. One of our biggest positions was autonomy. In london on the short side a year ago. Hewlettpackard bought this company for 11 billion. It was a rollup of Software Service companies. The accounting was absolutely dreadful. A disaster. They did almost no Due Diligence on the deal. It closed quickly. Oracle was shown the deal in past, and within seven months, the ceo and a number of stock people all left. Now, jim chanos taking a bow, is joining us right now on the squawk newsline. Good morning to you. Hi, guys, good morning. I assume youre feeling pretty good this morning. Well, i dont know about that. But this whole thing is a debacle. And probably should have never happened. As i mentioned, we have been short autonomy European Fund in 2010 and 2011 and washington horror was taken out a big premium by hewlettpackard. It was one of our absolute favorite shorts at the time. Do you buy that there is fraud here . Hp has not used that phrase specifically, but the s. E. C. And others are looking into this and thats the clear implication. Or is this just sort of a convenient way to say boy, did we make a huge mistake and try to blame it on others. Well, you know, i teach a course on fraud, as you know, and fraud is a bright line. Was there intent to deceive on the autonomy folks part, or was there an intent to deceive by hewlettpackard, or their advisers . Time will tell. It was pretty cloear if you loo at autonomys books over time that it was a very, very aggressive rollup. It was buying other companies. It was writing them down before it bought them and putting all kinds of good will on its books, which for most accounting mavens, and it appears to us thats what autonomy was doing. Do we just say to ourselves as spectators here or even investors in hp, this was hps fall, this was their bankers, lawyers, everybody else on the other side who just missed it, or decided to look the other way because they thought this deal was worth doing for whatever reason . I think the term would be willful blindness, andrew. This was all apparent if you looked. There were a number of short sellers very skeptical of autonomy and even more so if you talked to them in person as opposed to read their research reports. I dont know if you heard what mike lynch said yesterday. He came on the air, something people traditionally do not do in the midst of an investigation like this unless they really feel like they are being sandbagged here. He came out swinging, as we just played a clip. What do you make of that . Well, i dont know, but the evidence is what it is. This is a company that was, as i said, putting on good will on its books. Say they would do a 100 million acquisition. They would not only write off entirely the value of the acquisition before they bought it, but then they put on extra good will, so they often put on 150 or 180, just making up an example here, of good will on a 100 million acquisition. So there was all sorts of cookie jar accounting, to use a term that your man Herb Greenberg likes, that appeared to be going on. And it was hard to miss. What does this say about present day hewlettpackard . And do you still have a short on the company . We are still short hewlettpackard. Even at this point . Okay. Well, it says that this is a board that i think needs to really do some pretty rigorous selfexamination, i would think. We need to throw this board out all over again . This board has had, as you know, a tumultuous time already and has had a number of transitions, even over the past two or three years. I dont know about we since im not a shareholder, but i think if i was a shareholder, i would be asking some pretty serious questions at this point. I mean, its not just autonomy, by the way. They had eds writeoffs. This is a company that, as you know, our thesis was they have been basically offsetting a decline in their business by making acquisitions. In this case, almost disastrous acquisitions. Where do you stand on meg whitman . Norfolk opinion on meg whitman. But when you say the board has to examine itself, the board was clearly there when this action took place, meg was not. Right. I think she at some point was part of the approval process, as i understand. But thats up to the boards. Thats not a short seller to decide. Its the boards decision and theyve got to look at this. But again, i think the shareholders have a right to be outraged by what happened here. Were going to put a stock chart up real quick, if we could. Where do you think this stock goes . How much farther does it have to fall in yourest sna estimation . It has a lot of debt. This is a company that that is struggling with its core businesses. Lets also not forget that buried in the autonomy disaster was some pretty sobering outlook figures for the Company Going forward. And i just think until we see whether they have a mobility or a tablet strategy, this is a company that is going to continue to be what we call a value trap. Is there additional headline risk in terms of autonomy or is this something that is just going to go into irrelevancy . Im sure theres headline risk in a he said, she said sort of way, but i think at this point whats going to drive the stock is just the pc business, the printer business and the enterprise business. Jim, while we have you on the line, wanted to get your thoughts on a different story which also made news. That is this insider trader investigation and more than investigation indictment at s. A. C. Capital and whether you think it ultimately will lead to steve coen. This appears to be the first time that he, while not named in the complaint, is referred to as being involved in this trade. Do you think that theres some form of malfeasance here . Oh, i have no idea, andrew. I only know whats in the papers. I dont know anything beyond that. Traditionally i know you make all your trades yourself, i think. If you have investors, though, or people working for you who are going to make a big trade and say i want to make a big trade, do you ask questions . Youre inside this world. Well, except that we dont make trades in stocks we havent done research on. So its a little bit different. And i dont let junior people make trades at my firm. So you have to be a partner. And it has to be an idea thats already gone past the investment committee. Have you guys used Expert Networks in the past . We did, and we sort of famously dumped them all early in the millennium because they just didnt like where they were going. They failed miserably in the tech bubble. All of the experts were just as bullish as all of the wall street people. And then i noticed that the marketing sort of changed, that they were advertising sort of access and we were very uncomfortable with that. So we figured that was something our own analysts should be doing. And we dropped all our export networks. Access implies inside well, it wasnt said that way, joe, but it didnt pass the smell test. If you say access, its like you have access that is nonpublic access. Former executives, industry people, that sort of thing, it was never specified like that. But it just as i said, thats the sort of thing my own analysts should be doing and my clients pay a Management Fee for us to do. You do accounting and youre not trying to figure out whether a Clinical Trial is working or not. And were not obsessed with what the next Quarters Number s numbers are going to be either. The stuff you do is way too complicated. It really isnt, joe. Id rather just talk to somebody. You were completely right on autonomy lost money on it. Lost money because hp came out and bought it. Is that when you went short on shares of hp . Well, we were already looking in 2011 at the pc chain, but i have to tell you, the autonomy acquisition put hewlettpackard at the top of our list. So the short on hp, has that made up for what you lost on autonomy . I think that would be a fair statement. Jim, where did you and leishman have dinner or lunch . Im sorry . Where did you and leishman have dinner or lunch . Im just wondering where he took you. I thought we were going to bring you in on that, joe. Dont tell me he hasnt paid yet. I told him that i would pay. I said i want to have lunch with all you guys, but im still waiting. So youre not going to pay here. Youre not going to call him the welch that he is . I dont know. It defends how we define the qe and whether this was qe3 or whatever. Id be happy to buy steve lunch any time he wants. Buzz lightyear. If theres any qe between now and inif i infinity, hes basi right. Jim, thank you for dialing in from london this morning. There is turkey up here. Im going up to edinburgh to have thanksgiving with my daughter. Check it closely. Might be in the shape of a turkey. Have fun over there. See you guys soon. By the way, a real quick clarification. I had mentioned i used the word indictment. S. A. C. Has not been indicted. No, the trader. The trader has been indicted. The firm says its cooperating. Just want to make sure that were all kosher on this day ahead of thanksgiving. There you go. Its got nothing to do with kosher. It doesnt. You could have a kosher thanksgiving meal. You could. You could. You got to watch what you do, right . Any major faux pass . I put mayo on cheese. If you wrap the shrimp with bacon and then drink milk, you got a problem. Really . I love that. I had that this morning. Its weird that you would say that. You wonder why you have the issues that you have. Right. Which issues would those be . Youre never subjected to those. Dont act like you are. Never subjected . You hear about them. Youre not subjected to any ill wind or anything. Go ahead. When we come back, holiday retail, it is no childs play. The ceo of toys r us joins us to talk about opening his stores on thanksgiving, and the prospects for the season. Plus, a new new york tradition. Today workers are going to be inflating the giant balloons ahead of the macys thanksgiving day parade. There are 16 giant balloons this year, and 49 novelty balloons. Got papa smurf, elf on the shelf, hello kitty. Theyre going to be making their debut appearances in the parade. If you cant make it to the new york city the other sesame street components are going to be there. I did see that statement. Is there an elmo balloon . All the sesame street is going to be there as is irrespective of the kevin clash news. We can talk about that if you want a little later. I dont want to talk about it. If you cant make it to the streets of new york city to see the parade in person, nbc is going to have full parade coverage, it starts at 9 00 a. M. Eastern. Squawk will be right back. [ penelope ] i found the best cafe in the world. Nespresso. Where i never have to compromise on anything. Where just one touch creates the perfect coffee. Where every cappuccino and latte is only made with fresh milk. And where the staff is exceptionally friendly. Nespresso. What else . Olaf gets great rewards for his Small Business pizza [ garth ] olafs Small Business earns 2 cash back on every purchase, every day helium delivery. Put it on my spark card [ pop ] [ garth ] why settle for less . Great businesses deserve great rewards awesome [ male announcer ] the spark Business Card from capital one. Choose unlimited rewards with 2 cash back or double miles on every purchase, every day whats in your wallet . Coming up, the ceo of toys r us. Hot Holiday Gifts opening on thanksgiving. The state of the consumer. I heard some Christmas Music yesterday. I heard some on the day after halloween. When we went to break, you like coldplay and you were playing that again. You listen to coldplay a lot. Are you making that spinach dip for thanksgiving this year . Tdd 18003452550 this morning, im going to trade in hong kong. Tdd 18003452550 after that, its on to germany. Tdd 18003452550 then tonight, im trading 9500 miles away in japan. Tdd 18003452550 with the new global account from schwab, tdd 18003452550 i hunt down opportunities around the world tdd 18003452550 as if im right there. Tdd 18003452550 and im in total control because i can trade tdd 18003452550 directly online in 12 markets in their local currencies. Tdd 18003452550 i use their Global Research to get an edge. Tdd 18003452550 their equity ratings show me how schwab tdd 18003452550 rates specific foreign stocks tdd 18003452550 based on things like fundamentals, momentum and risk. Tdd 18003452550 and i also have access to independent tdd 18003452550 firms like Ned Davis Research tdd 18003452550 and Economist Intelligence unit. Tdd 18003452550 plus, i can talk to their global specialists 24 7. Tdd 18003452550 and trade in my global account commissionfree tdd 18003452550 through march 2013. Tdd 18003452550 best part. No jet lag. Tdd 18003452550 call 18665069616 tdd 18003452550 and a global specialist tdd 18003452550 will help you get started today. I heard you guys can ship ground for less than the ups store. Thats right. Ive learned the only way to get a holiday deal is to camp out. You know weve been open all night. Is this a trick to get my spot . [ male announcer ] break from the holiday stress. Save on ground shipping at fedex office. Welcome back, everybody. Toys r us kicked off black friday early in 2009. And each year, the doors have opened even earlier. Tomorrow, the doors open at 8 00 p. M. , thats right, on thanksgiving. Jerry storj is the company ceo. Its great to see you. Good morning. So, 8 00 p. M. , is this the final line how early were opening. Well, its up to our customers, last year we opened at 9 00 p. M. , and there were hundreds of people in the stores. We serve families with young children, and they think its a good idea to go out at a reasonable hour instead of getting up in the middle of the night and trying to sneak out of the house. It also spreads out the crowds, its a little more fun and exciting. And people love going to toys r us on thursday night. Whats happening with the consumer right now . Are people starting to feel the pinch were hearing about . Well, i think that were going to see a spectacular black friday overall here. And well know a lot more in a week than we know right now. Clearly thanksgiving crept up on people. This is the earliest thanksgiving that can fall on the calendar. Earliest possible, and the most number of days between thanksgiving and christmas. Thats a good thing for retailers. It is, but makes it a later season. What weve seen suggests that black fridays going to be huge. All the surveys have said more people are going to shop black friday than ever before. Why . Theyre looking for deals. Theyre looking for deals and were going to give them to them. Were going to make sure this is our biggest black friday sale ever. And its got 15 more pages in the ad, 200 door busters that start at 8 00 p. M. Wow. We have we have for the first 200 families in line were giving away a goody bag with 30 worth of toys. At every store . In every store. First 200 families get a bag with of 30 worth of toys. Where are you going . Sit. 8 00, and were going to keep adding more and more and more throughout the day. And all the way till cyber monday, which is monday, so were going to come out of the gate like a chained up horse and get running really fast. What does it mean for the store . For the retailer who is actually getting people in. Do they spend on everything once theyre there. I believe they do. Weve been working on this all yearlong. This is the toys r us time of year. We have signs in the building that start back in the summer, how many days until black friday . Weve been waiting for this, were excited about this, we think its going to be huge. Lets talk about the hot toys. Thats always the issue. You have to have the toys people want ahead of time. Well, the hottest thing we have right now is this. The toys r us tablet called tabio, it plays all the apps that kids love. Right, so you give them this instead of your ipad and they have a lot of fun with it for 149. 99. You cant beat it. Its pretty shock proof. You can drop it, it has parental controls, they cant go anywhere on the internet you dont want them to go. Is that already on sale . Its already on sale and it is very, very hot. How many of them are you selling . Well, we havent revealed the numbers, but its a significant number, and a lot more than they started out to make. And were going to sell more of them. This is butterscotch, junior. Ive got him on a mode now so he wont keep doing this all day long. He eats a carrot, responds to you. If you have this, you dont need a cat. I have to ask you why youre here. Yes, sir. Elmo. Yeah. Elmo, you sell a lot of sesame street products. Whats this going to do . Weve seen the sales for sesame product continue to be strong. Its been around for a very, very long time. I think you have to separate the characters from the puppeteer. We ask because my sons love elmo. Were an elmo addicted family and the news that has now officially resigned is sad in our family in some ways. Sesame street lives on, the characters live on, theyve been around for decades. You could cast another elmo. You can easily. Any dropoff in sales . None whatsoever. In fact, the leading elmo product this year is one of the hottest is it lol elmo . No, its not. I thought the one where he goes like this and goes they all do that. When Gilbert Godfrey left aflac, they said he couldnt be replaced. If theres any one company hitting out of the park, its lego. Very, very hot. Theres big news. Presenting androgel 1. 62 . Both are used to treat men with low testosterone. Androgel 1. 62 is from the makers of the number one prescribed testosterone replacement therapy. It raises your testosterone levels, and. Is concentrated, so you could use less gel. And with androgel 1. 62 , you can save on your monthly prescription. [ male announcer ] dosing and application sites between these products differ. Women and children should avoid contact with application sites. Discontinue androgel and call your doctor if you see unexpected signs of early puberty in a child, or, signs in a woman which may include changes in body hair or a large increase in acne, possibly due to accidental exposure. Men with Breast Cancer or who have or might have prostate cancer, and women who are, or may become pregnant or are Breast Feeding should not use androgel. Serious side effects include worsening of an enlarged prostate, possible increased risk of prostate cancer, lower sperm count, swelling of ankles, feet, or body, enlarged or painful breasts, problems breathing during sleep, and blood clots in the legs. Tell your doctor about your medical conditions and medications, especially insulin, corticosteroids, or medicines to decrease blood clotting. Talk to your doctor today about androgel 1. 62 so you can use less gel. Log on now to androgeloffer. Com and you could pay as little as ten dollars a month for androgel 1. 62 . What are you waiting for . This is big news. You can stay in and share something. Or you can get out there with your friends and actually share something. The lexus december to remember sales event is on, offering some of our best values of the year. This is the pursuit of perfection. Its open season for stocks. What could boost your portfolio. Finding the deals and steals. I got it. I got it. What happens when you find a lower price after buying it . Well explain. And talking turkey. Thats cold. Thats cold and wet. The butter ball hot line is open. And theyre dishing tips on how to avoid a thanksgiving disaster. The second hour of squawk box begins right now. Good morning, everybody. Welcome back to squawk box here on cnbc. Im becky quick along with joe kernan and andrew rosssorkin. So far, a few red arrows, nothing very major at this point, the dow futures down by about 22 points. In your Morning Headlines today, there is still no deal thats been reached between greeces international leonanders despit all night talks. The banks say they are close to an agreement, but they are not quite there yet. A deal has to be reached before greece can receive any emergency funds. And the explosion of mobile devices is expected to be a big driver of ecommerce this holiday season. Online sales should jump by 15 to 18 . Next monday is known as cyber monday, and its expected to see a 30 jump over last year. Also, hostess is back in court today. This comes after a mediation session yesterday between hostess and its Bankers Union that failed to produce an agreement to save the twinkies maker. Wed all been thinking, maybe this would be the deal when they got pushed together. But so far, no good. When you first heard its going to happen, it can happen, then it did happen and you thought, oh, wait, theres a mediation. This will be when it does. Well, because theres 18,500 jobs on the line. Not just iconic brands, but 18,500 jobs. And the bakers are only a part of those 18,000. The other guys are looking around like, you know they all had deals. Held hostage by the bakers. Our guest host this morning is one of the worlds most influential value investors. Chairman, ceo, and chief investment officer. Mario, i saw you the other day, it was maria talking about the fiscal cliff. Lets just assume that people rise above. And im going to give you carte blanc blanche. Lets talk about good stocks and fun things. Because you think deeply about this stuff. And youre kind of like a master story teller why you like certain stocks. Whats your favorite right now . Well, within the framework of making money, today is black friday yes. The stocks today. How do you make money . So for buying stocks today . Yeah. People sell things, theres bargains. If you like it and have the understanding of an intrinsic value. If someone is understanding it and selling it. Well, that is the stock market and the emotions. For example, yesterday, yesterday, patterson, a Company Based in the minneapolis area patterson dental youre getting warm. The stock was down 33 a share. You look at the company, theyve not done anything really good for the last four or five years. How do they get business . They sell products for veterinary market, companion pets. Dogs and cats youve been on this pet kick for a while. Whats the symbol . Pdco. That is the old patterson dental. You got it. Now in terms of supplies for pets. Well, a threeway mosaic. One, companion pets, Companies Like shine that sell products through the veterinary market. Yeah. Thats a dental and as you get older. As the population ages, joe, several things happen. One, theyre more sensitive to pets, more money to spend. And this is a good market. Second product is dental work. The aging of the population, you have more teeth, more per tooth. You have the same number of teeth. Well, more people. Are people adding teeth . No, but theyre keeping them longer. You have 64 teeth. But you spend more money per tooth. And in addition wisdom . Joe. Go on. You have none. I have one left. I lost them all a long time ago. In that framework, heres a company that was plodding along. Theyre buying back stocks, things are starting to get brighter. And so whats the value of the company if someone takes it up . An analyst whose name i forgot on the conference call, the Earnings Release just yesterday asked them a question. Are you going to stop just buying back stock are you going to do something significant . Are you going to split the company into three parts . How do we make money in the market . I thought there was a third reason for patterson dental. Well, they have stuff like products for aging for rehab. You need knees, you need a hip. They do that too. No, they sell the components that you go in and get supplies. So if you want to do a therapy. When you say companion pets, you mean cats and dogs. Well, we leave that out. I talked to some of my fish. You do a lot. I do. But 80 million cats and 80 million dogs, thats 160 million of those. Thats pretty significant. It is. Believe me. So as a result of that. And youre spending more money and the growth rate of that market. These are hidden markets. We like to talk about housing, autos, we can talk about niches, thats an interesting company, you have takeout company there. Theyre a conduit for inflation because they pass through. Now, shortterm, you and i are lets say dentists. We sit down with our accountant and say how do we spend money . Should we buy that piece of equipment today, or is the accountant going to say, look, your taxes are going to be higher next year . So a lot of the thought process is going on. Yesterday, bernanke said he wrote his ph. D. Thesis on the element of uncertainty in investment spending. That was interesting. He had 150page thesis, this was one part of the three parts. Theres an element of that. And shortterm theres probably some difficulty in doing that. So start adding to products that cater to the companion pet market to the dental market, to the aging process. This is just a sample of that, joe. Did you come up with this . Or did someone in your shop come up to you . No, patterson dental started following this 10, 12 years ago. And owned it off and on since . Yeah, and we dont own a lot. We probably own 1. 5 million shares, bought some yesterday, good news that the stock dropped 3. Okay. And wed like to have it cheaper. All right. What else . As an example, lets go back and look at the world. How do you make money . Spinoffs, splitups, liquidations, mergers and acquisitions. A company like sycamore. Sycamore was worth 20 billion ten years ago because everybody said its got the digital revolution. The stock is liquidating the company. The stocks down 2. 76. Okay. Thats scmr. You remember it well, dont you . I know, painfully. In any event, lets look at spinoffs, cable vision, they gave you Madison Square garden. Hes splitting up his company and spending money. One of the things he did, bought the yankees. Putting valuation not the yankees, the s network. Like your content, youre terrific, you guys are worth a lot of money, 12 times ebitda. We are . You are. And basically you know what cnbc earns for the new owners. You know what our ebitda number is 240 million, i dont know what it is. What about squawk box. I dont want any inside information here. So murdoch is going to buy you now. When we go to break, im going to do this basically, what does that mean for msg . When they have the msg network, it reaffirms what the value is of these Cable Networks and the value of the sports franchise. Somebody bought the dodgers for 2 billion plus, did they buy it for the team or for the they bought that for the vanity. That was a vanity. Just do the math. In addition to that were you wrong on that too . I standby the vanity issue. You think it was too much . Mario doesnt seem to think that was a good deal . They used insurance policies to buy it. Good point. Theres no question it attracts certain types of dynamics. The Brooklyn Nets is a politically safe way to keep money . Or is it a way to get the value of the content by capturing the distribution. Because if you get 1 a month for a subscriber watching the knicks and gets back on the nhl, National Hockey league, you get incremental revenues. The spinoff was a way to attract attention. Is somebody going to buy the channel . The ones walking dead, right . Yeah, of course. And madmen. Some people say spinoffs are shuffling of the paper. Do you disagree . Well, its a fundamental issue with regards to capitalism. And that is should the ceo and the board and the shareholders who elect these individuals allow companies to move assets to the highest form . John malone constantly spins off things shuffling paper. Looking to not only grow intrinsic value, but allowing it to surface. If you just bought a basket of securities that dr. Malone had over the years, youd have compounded assets at about a 15 the last 20 to 30 years. Buffett does something else, buys and holds. Irene rosenfeld, i said shes going to buy cadbury, she took it, put it into a package, spun off kraft. Mondelez is a fantastic asset. Another example, hillshire, sarah lee, we talked about that spinning off. Look at the pieces. What are the elements that are worth . Hillshire is a company 120 million shares, the stocks around 25, 3 billion market cap, basically the Company Sells protein for breakfast, jimmy dean sausages, the sausage category, how big is it . Might be a little fat lunch meat. Joe well, its sausage. I want it. I eat it, i want it. Im telling you its not all protein. This is good. Hot dogs, joe. Just sort of in a trance. Its sort of a relief, once in a while, to have mario come and talk about stocks. Bottom line. Well, thats what the stock market is. Its a collection of stocks as opposed to buying an etf. Do you want to buy a business and get rich . Or do you want to trade . In addition to that, what are your taxes, joe . Oh, now were going to politics. No, we wont. No, were not. Its called capital gains, retained earnings, how do you maintain wealth in an environment . How do you create wealth . How do you create retirement . How do you fund what a College Needs to pay for tuition for incoming students . How do they buffett and taxes, i dont think those two words go together. Hes never paid a tax, has he . Hes very good. Hes very good at minimizing tax but the concept of a deferred tax is an engine of growth, capitalism, very fundamental thing. Weve got 12 times ebitda. Thats why weve got to sell these commercials, right . Thanks, mario. Not only commercials, its a dual revenue stream. I know it is, cable. I didnt see when you walked on i know, i didnt get a hug. I got a hug from joe. Yes, you did. Unusual. Andrew and i have yet to do it. Well work on that during the commercial break. In the meantime, the president getting ready to pardon a turkey this afternoon. Thats not the case this morning on squawk box. We prepare you for tomorrows festivities with the butter ball turkey talk line. Coming up next, its all the rage price matching. Courtney reagans got the story. Thats right, andrew. We went undercover to see how easy or not it is to get retailers to price match a competitor and which retailers may make that easier this year coming up on squawk box. [ male announcer ] its that time of year again. Time for citi price rewind. Because your daughter really wants that pink castle thing. And you really dont want to pay more than you have to. Only citi price rewind automatically searches for the lowest price. And if it finds one, you get refunded the difference. Just use your citi card and register your purchase online. Have a super sparkly day ok. [ male announcer ] now all you need is a magic carriage. Citi price rewind. Buy now. Save later. The latest coffee machine from nespresso. Modular. Intuitive. Combines espresso and fresh milk. The new u. Nespresso. What else . Available at these fine retailers. Best buy is currently offering the lowest price online. How easy is it to get a price match . Our own Courtney Reagan did just that. She did digging and joins us with the results. You were like undercover shopper. We did. We had to go undercover. And nobody wants to overpay for a holiday gift. And one way to avoid that, buyers remorse is research the prices for the bigticket items online. A lot of places say they will match prices, we did shopping of our own to see who makes it easiest. And so we didnt get any special treatment like we said, we did go undercover with our cameras rolling. Reporter we chose this sony bluray dvd player and three major retailers. A little Online Research shows target pricing the dvd player at 139. 99. Walmarts selling the same one for 129. And best buy offers a special price that you can only see at checkout, slightly annoying, but it is the cheapest by 31 at 108. 99. Armed with our printout from our best buy deal, we make our first stop, walmart in secaucus, new jersey. We found the player in stock and asked if they would price match. So this sony bluray player is at best buy but for 109, the list price here is 138, can you price match . Walmart made it easy. Next, we visited target in new jersey. You guys here at target have it for 139, but i found the same dvd player online at bestbuy. Com. So will you price match that . No. We only match the ads in the flyer. At first, they turn our producer down, but when she presses him further, he calls the manager. It is for today, yes. Its an interesting wrinkle did happen at walmart at the checkout, when we took the bluray player up, it rang up 98, 30 cheaper than it was listed. They didnt have to price match, but they were willing to do it. Push, push, push, but its got to be todays date. Youve got to have a date on whatever you bring in. If youre not happy with what the associate is telling you, you can always ask for a manager. And target seemed to be the most expensive every time, but only by about 1. Okay. How why didnt you just buy it online to begin with . When you find the cheap price online . And there would be no video, no segments. But also, some people dont want to wait for the shipping, they might need it right then. Get it that day. And thats when it can win. The people who physically want it in hand. What if it doesnt make it, what if theres another storm. You follow this stuff really closely, whats the sense from the retailers in what they expect from the consumers this year . They think its going to be a good one, they think its going to be an unnerving one. Like weve been saying about a lot of things, cautiously optimistic, i think theyre hopeful, but realize how competitive it is and theyre watching each other very closely. Because if you notice once one announced the layaway program, everybody did. And theres nuances for each of the programs, so youre going to want to read the fine print and really push, be polite and push, and more than likely, theyre willing to do what it takes to make that sale. We had jerry from toys r us this morning and he and joe were talking about the longest number of days between thanksgiving and christmas, which is great news because it means more shopping days, but he says a lot of times that means shoppers wait until the end. Theyre not going to be doing shopping right away. Exactly. If were playing a chicken and egg game. It seems to be good prices right now and the closer you get to christmas. Macys is holding back inventory, talking about introducing product newness as you get closer and closer to the holiday. To worry too is that you panic and promote more than you need to. Kills your margins. Its a timing game too. Will they end with less inventory . This year, theyre in really good shape because i think theyve learned some lessons in the years past where theyve had way too much inventory. I think thats also a lesson for consumers. If you see something, you might want to buy it right then because the inventories arent as full as theyve been in years past. Retailers dont want to get stuck with that extra inventory. Get it if you dont buy it now. Courtney, thank you for that. Thank you. Coming up, giving thanks so Small Business. Chief economist bill dunkelberg will join us. And then at the top of the next hour, former wells fargo chairman and ceo Dick Kovacevich is going to join us. Time now for todays aflac trivia question. The term franksgiving was named after which famous u. S. Figure . The answer when squawk box continues. Yeah, how will you pay for things like food. Electricity . Dental bills. Gazooks. You need a backup plan. [ santa ] ho, ho, ho. Thats why we have aflac so ill have cash to help pay bills great. But what if youre still not better by christmas . Hmm. Afllaaccccccccc [ male announcer ] aflac. Weve got you under our wing. Rudolphs better. But now blitzens sick or that printing in color had to cost a fortune. Nobody said an allinone had to be bulky. Or that you had to print from your desk. At least, nobody said it to us. Introducing the business smart inkjet allinone series from brother. Easy to use. Its the ultimate combination of speed, small size, and lowcost printing. [ female announcer ] today, its not just about who lives in the white house, its about who lives in the yellow house, the green, and the apartment house, too. Today we not only honor the oval office, but we honor the cubicle, and the home office as well. Because today its about all of us. And no matter who you are, youre the commanderinchief of your own life. Customer erin swensoninchief bought so, im happy. Today. Sales go up. Im happy. It went out today. Im happy. What if shes not home . together she wont be happy. Use ups she can get a text alert, reroute. Even reschedule her package. Its ups my choice. Are you happy . Im happy. Im happy. Im happy. Im happy. Im happy. Happy. Happy. Happy. Happy. together happy. I love logistics. Now the answer to todays aflac trivia question. The term franksgiving used to mock the governments attempt to commercialize thanksgiving was named after u. S. Figure . The answer, franklin d. Roosevelt. Aflac. Comments, questions about anything you see here on squawk, shoot an email to squawk cnbc. Com, follow us on twitter squawkcnbc. Coming up, talking gold, oil, and equities, the trading block to get you ready for turkey day trades. Squawks coming back in a few moments. Coming up, squawk serves up the perfect turkey. Its a traditional interview with the butter ball turkey top line from stuffing to basting to all the fixings. Get lastminute tips to set the perfect table right here on squawk box. Olaf gets great rewards for his Small Business pizza [ garth ] olafs Small Business earns 2 cash back on every purchase, every day helium delivery. Put it on my spark card [ pop ] [ garth ] why settle for less . Great businesses deserve great rewards awesome [ male announcer ] the spark Business Card from capital one. Choose unlimited rewards with 2 cash back or double miles on every purchase, every day whats in your wallet . When you take a closer look. At the best schools in the world. You see they all have something very interesting in common. They have teachers. With a deeper knowledge of their subjects. As a result, their students achieve at a higher level. Lets develop more stars in education. Lets invest in our teachers. So they can inspire our students. Lets solve this. Welcome back to squawk box this morning. Lets get you through some of the headlines as we get ready for the last day of trading, the full day of trading, the Labor Departments weekly report on jobless claims a day early. That report out in about an hour expected to drop to 430,000 for last week, thats down from 439,000 the week before. And Mortgage Applications falling 2. 2 last week according to the Mortgage Bankers association that was driven by a decrease in refinancing activity with applications for new home purchases rising by 3. 2 . And some more bad news for research in motion, they may be losing another major blackberry customer. Reporting that the National Transportation safety board now considering dropping the blackberry for its workers in favor of apples iphone. The ntsb citing reliability problems. So, becky, another one not me. Im still bites the dust. Im holding on to it. I know joes got his. Were going to be the last two People Holding our blackberry going down with the ship. Someone was on yesterday had an iphone and someone sitting here. They had both. An iphone and a blackberry. Thats what i do. You got both. I got both. Then you walk around like a gun slinger. No, i have a blazer, a coat got a vest you have a vest with lapels. What did you think of that . Horrible. You couldnt get it off fast enough when you got here today. Had like pockets all over. Im a big fan of ali velshi. Thats who you look like. Too much. Oh, my word. I was going with it for about 30 seconds. No, no, no, take it off. You should put it on. Put it on to show people. All right. All right. Youve got to stick around. Show people what a complete mooch you are. No, i admire him trying new ideas. Ill go get it. Its like seinfeld, looks good on you. Does it look good on me . Andrews going to come back, show this off. And i like that hes trying new things. Im glad he left youre very kind. Youre very kind. Its the countdown, millions of people hitting the roads, skies, and rails today to try to get in place for thanksgiving. Our phil lebeau is on the Holiday Travel beat and joins us with more right now. How do things look in chicago right now, phil . Its foggy here, becky. So i think a lot of people are looking at the boards and saying, hmm, hopefully were not delayed. No cancellations weve seen so far. And you can see here at ohare, the security lines filling up as they do every thanksgiving. Looking at thanksgiving travel this year, just over 43 Million People will be hitting the road for at least 15 miles. Thats a slight increase from last year. But theyre spending less this year. Just under 500, a drop of 10 according to aaa. And first of all, in terms of how many people will be traveling this year, the majority as it always is are going by car. And theres an increase, 39. 1 Million People will be driving at least 50 miles this year. Thats the highest number of people using car to travel for thanksgiving since 2007. In large part, gasoline relatively stable, 3. 41 a gallon on average. Thats a smidge higher than it was last year. Thats the good news for those who track thanksgiving travel. The bad news, take a look at what were seeing in terms of the airlines. Travel is going to be down about 1. 7 this year. Part of that is because of restricted capacity, and also, people dont want to spend as much for airline tickets. The lowest u. S. Round trip airfare. This is the interesting part, coming in at 188, thats down 11 compared to last year, still, were going to see a decline in the terms of the number of people flying, the fewest people since 2009. And guys, one last story regarding Holiday Travel this year, particularly in your part of the country, the rental car companies, a lot of people like to buy not buy, rent a car for the weekend. You cant do that very easily. In fact, you probably cant do that at all if you havent gotten one by now the northeast. This is the hangover effect from hurricane sandy, superstorm sandy. All of the rental car companies, theyre gone. Theyre spoken for. All of the cars. So as a result, if you or somebody who is making lastminute plans and said, well, im going to rent a car. Good luck, youre not going to be able to get one in the new York New Jersey area and a good chunk of the northeast. Look for a car pool. How long is that expected to last, phil . Well, this is what we usually see around thanksgiving. And all of the holidays, you see all the rental car companies, for the most part, not completely sold out, but they fill up. And this year because of sandy, they are sold out. One interesting note, an increase in the number of people taking buses and trains this year in part because of what were seeing with the rental car companies. Thank you. Well check in with you later. Its good for tires. It is good for tires. You like that. Well, i like pep boys. Do you have some . I bought it. Do you have music . Do we have music . Thats it, thats good. Hold on, its hard to get to the other side. Look at the lining. Are you good with this . Turn around, let me see. Its a very weird look. The back is a little wild. Its a little wild. Its a British Company. It looks awful, actually. I like the front better than the back. It looks particularly bad. I like the front better than the back. Now youre in position of having to take off your clothes. Go ahead. Its got lapels. Youve got to leave it on. Youve got to move your rise above pin. It has lapels. You do a lot of pockets. With respect to ali velshi, i have to does he wear my god, look at the back of it. The back of its kind of crazy. You look like some kind of wild animal. Its a british thing. My point was, where did you buy that thing . Where did you buy the suit . Who was it . Who was the british guy who does this . Was there a suit salesman . Yes, there was he was standing in front of a mirror no, i was it a girl selling it to you who said, wow, that looks good . And you went really . And they went yeah. And you finally talked yourself into it. My thought was i was never going to wear the threepiece part. The blazer part, just the suit with the pants, its okay. Thats interesting. But now youre in the position of having taken off your clothes on television. There you go. Do anything to get that ebitda up. What is that . Im worried its probably hurting the ebitda. To be honest. You know, you guys your own ratings, i would say that whats the maker . I thought i had to deal with the fiscal cliff, but undressing. You will. Its got like a stripy thing going on. Lets get an outlook on the markets. Right now we have daniel from tjm institute. Weve been watching what happens with the futures every day. A lot of concerns about the fiscal cliff, is that the Biggest Issue driving things right now . The fiscal cliff is the driving issue right now. A little fear from europe. The market came off. That is in the background. As long as were seeing things move forward, but not negative on the fiscal cliff, i think youll see the market bounce against this 87 and 90 level. Any hint of a compromise, yo ur goi youre going to break the 1,400 level. Okay. 20 to 22 area. Every time these talks come in, though, we know its going to be a lot of turbulence between now and lets say the middle of december or some time, thatd be the earliest. Are you following every single trade . Are you thinking eventually therell be a deal that gets done . I think eventually there will be a deal that gets done. And i kind of like the fact its been quiet lately because it means it seems to me that means theyre working at something. Youre not going to get a grand compromise early on, but youre going to get something reasonably substantial. And next year when we have the new congress, things will get together. You start seeing that, then we start going off pretty good to the upside. Of course, dan, everyone has said if theres this idea that washington can come together and define some sort of solution, that will make the markets buy into this confidence in washington. Washington has big problems, and the solutions are probably going to mean painful medicine around. Is there a moment when the markets wake up and realize and say, oh, my gosh, we have to realize we are talking about spending cuts, higher taxes and combination of these two things could lead to some troubling times for the markets too . Well, thats going to be found out once the deal is in. Lets say they had some sort of a deal and you start breaking it down. Youll have to look at how is it going to impact the economy . I imagine theyre going to do it to minimize whatever impact there is. It seems to me, theres growth in this economy and were looking for a place to spring board from it. So theyre not going to want to ruin that chance. But until the details are out, were really not going to want to know. We have not talked fiscal cliff with you indepth on these things. What it means for the markets now, the changes, potential tax law changes could mean. What are you hopeful about . What are you worried about . For the next five years, ten years, a very simple model. You have to raise revenues, lower expenses, and grow the economy. But the economy is not isolated. And the Global Economy is important. How does the u. S. Participate . So we have to keep an eye on europe, we cant ignore it. You have to keep an eye on china. Chinas going to step on the accelerator in march if not earlier. And within the framework of the next ten years, can we regain our economic prowess . And thats priority number one. If you have these guys in new york, mayor bloomberg, mayor booker, the mayor, the governors, cuomo, christie, malloy, if they went on holiday while we had sandy, what would you do . We have an economic crisis. Theyre going to take a short break in december. Yeah, we have to have a patch, but we have to have a fix. And a structural fix is so fundamental so that if youre running a business and you have clarity and visibility for the next five years, you can live with whatever you have. Corporate taxes are coming down according to the current administration. You drop them from 35 to 28 or 25 if its u. S. Manufacturing. That is very helpful for profits of certain companies. But you close the loopholes, meaning those who arent you have to. Come on, lobbyists have put in too many loopholes at the corporate level, they snuck them in, carried interest, carried interest is a disgrace. Three years, its not even patched. Notwithstanding if youre a hedge fund, a private equity, i mean, you going to harvest your investments. Someone else was selling a piece of charter communications. Why . They want to get the carried interest. They dont want to pay the extra tax. However, theres no question, 71 of the economy is the consumer. 13 is investment. Balance is Government Spending and exports. The consumers a function of jobs, psychology, cash. Housing yesterday, bernanke echoed the notion of a positive feedback loop on housing, very fundamental to jobs and net worth. Were going to talk more about that, but dan, thank you for joining us and happy thanksgiving. When we return, were going to do Small Business in search of solutions to the fiscal cliff, nfib chief economist is going to join us and then were going to serve up turkey tips for the butter ball turkey talk line. How much stuffing, should you tie the legs, when should you baste . Those questions and much, much more. I want to talk about fried turkey when we return. [ male announcer ] how do you trade . With scottrader streaming quotes, any way you want. Fully customize it for your trading process from thought to trade, on every screen. And all in real time. Which makes it just like having your own trading floor, right at your fingertips. [ rodger ] at scottrade, seven dollar trades are just the start. Try our easytouse scottrader streaming quotes. Its another reason more investors are saying. [ all ] im with scottrade. Well, having a ton of locations doesnt hurt. And my daughter loves the santa. Oh, ah sir. That is a customer. Lets not tell mom. [ male announcer ] break from the holiday stress. Fedex office. Welcome back to squawk. As we try to rise above uncertainty. Yesterday, the ceo of charlies grilled subs talk about the importance of getting a deal done in washington. Theyre the ones on the front lines hiring employees, making decisions about whether theyre going to buy new equipment or going to build another location. And theyd like to know what kind of environment theyre operating in. So these are important issues for them. And they do affect them. They affect them personally, their families and the families of the people that work for them. Joining us now to rise above and talk Small Business, the chief economist at the National Federation of independent businesses, and good morning to you. Good morning and happy thanksgiving to everybody. Happy thanksgiving. Your sense on the fiscal cliff impacting Small Business right now. We saw an article earlier this week talking about big corporations slowing down purchases, but we still havent its not clear its impacted the consumer and i want to get a sense from you of how its really impacting smaller businesses. Well, of course, Consumer Spending wasnt very strong in the third quarter. In particular, the Services Sector grew only. 8 . And thats a big Small Business sector, and thats 70 of the 71 of gdp thats consumption. So thats very important. We havent really seen much of a pick up in spending there. And thats very important. Well see what happens to consumer optimism. But owner optimism is going to be important here going forward. And i think thats really a key. I saw in your report, Small Business optimism did rise. How do you think about that in a relative basis for this fiscal cliff were approaching . Yeah, it did rise. 3 . Basically really unchanged from september. The average going into 2008 was 100. We havent been over 95 in the whole recovery period. Were really in recession levels still. One of the questions we ask is do you think Business Conditions will be better or worse six months from now than today . 14 p account in october said better, 19 said worse, and 23 , a record high said i dont have a clue whether its going to be better or worse. So how am i going to do anything . With all that uncertainty, what everybody does is sit tight, keep their powder dry. Is it a function of revenues or a function of sales that traffic is a function of customers coming in . Or a function of their uncertainty over taxes . Well, its all of those things. You put a percentage on that. Let me put numbers on there for you. Great. We have 15 Percentage Points more of our owners saying quarter on Quarter Sales are headed down than say theyre headed up. Sales trends have been weak as the gdp numbers kind of suggest. In terms of their most important problems, of course, Health Care Costs are number one out of 75 options we give them. Number two is uncertainty about the economy, number three is energy costs, number four is uncertainty about government policy. Number five is the cost of useless regulations and red tape. Six, seven, and eight are frequent changes in the tax code. Tax code complexity, and taxes take away the money, my earnings that i use to grow my business. Theyre the issues that were concerned about. Bill, you said taxes are six, seven, and eight, so theyre not in the one, two, or three category. Which i might imagine given thats a huge issue going into 2013. Well, it certainly is. And when we took the survey earlier this year, of course, maybe the fiscal cliff issue wasnt quite as big a point. Right now yeah, this is a survey, the big one was 75 items, we only do once every five years and, of course, Health Care Costs which is you could look at as a tax, if you will, is at the top of the list for the last 25 years, you have to go back to the early 80s to get interest costs up there. Remember the 21 prime and the difficulty in getting credit back in those days. Whens your next comprehensive survey, bill. Well, the November Surveys going to be interesting because through october, of course, we didnt have the outcome of the election in that survey. And now well be able to carve out the east coast and see what sandy did to all the numbers, as well. So well have to wait a couple more weeks until we get the November Survey in and then well have a really pretty good idea about where things stand. My guess is, its going to be more pessimism here. Obviously it depends on what you were hoping for in the election and what that mix all looks like. But im expecting optimism to fall. And, of course, well have no more resolution on taxes or any of those things because its too soon really to get those done. But, you know, 75 of these Small Businesses out there are paying their taxes on the personal schedule. Theyre worrying about that, want to know how to calculate after tax returns on hiring or investment when you dont know what the tax rates going to be. We wish you a happy thanksgiving. Well, same to all of you. Thank you very much. See you soon. When we come back, we have a squawk tradition. Joe has a list of questions ready to go for the butter ball turkey. Thats here on squawk. Americans believe they should be in charge of their own future. How theyll live tomorrow. For more than 116 years, Ameriprise Financial has worked for their clients futures. Helping millions of americans retire on their terms. When they want. Where they want. Doing what they want. Ameriprise. The strength of a leader in retirement planning. The heart of 10,000 advisors working with you onetoone. Together for your future. Monarch of marketing analysis. With the ability to improve roi through seo all by cob. And you. Rent from national. Because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle. And go. You can even take a fullsize or above, and still pay the midsize price. Im going big. [ male announcer ] good choice business pro. Good choice. Go national. Go like a pro. Or that printing in color had to cost a fortune. Nobody said an allinone had to be bulky. Or that you had to print from your desk. At least, nobody said it to us. Introducing the business smart inkjet allinone series from brother. Easy to use. Its the ultimate combination of speed, small size, and lowcost printing. Time to talk turkey as we continue the squawk box traditions other than me. Its kind of like a wonderful life this package every year. All right, thanksgiving, my job is to prepare the perfect turkey. Happens every year. The first thing, cleanliness is next to godliness. Someone else is going to have to turn this off. All right. There we go. Heres the turkey, heres my stuffing. Is this back here, right . Might want to cough a little bit. Oh, thats cold. Thats cold and wet. And you really want to stuff it in here. In other words, you really want to pack it. Hold on a second. Almost done here. All right. Ready to go now. Joining us cant believe what she just saw. With her tips on preparing the perfect turkey is sue smith. Butter balls talk line expert. Live from butter balls headquarters in illinois. I did not know, back then, sue, packing the stuffing is probably not the best idea for the stuffing, is it . A lot of people do like the stuff, but good question, you want to stuff just lightly and thatll bring me to my first golden tip, make sure you use that meat thermometer, make sure that stuffing gets to 165 and make sure that thigh meat gets the 180 and breast meat gets to 165, 170. And if someone stuffs it the night before, thats the worst thing you can do. Do you stand by that . If youre going to stuff it, its a great way to do it, its tradition. If your moms done it, youre going to stuff. But yes, you want to prepare it that morning and stuff it right before you put it in the oven. Does it ferment or something if you do it overnight . You dont want can grow in there overnight, is that it . You dont. Definitely do prep for food safety. Techniques and stuff it right before. What if i want to do Something Different this year . Do you got any ideas about different spices or anything out of the ordinary that you might use with your bird this year, sue . Yeah, theres a lot of different ways, like to spice it up. Salt and pepper, but a lot of people like to put garlic or sage or rosemary, and this year we have a brand new app. Its real exciting, the butter ball cook book plus, and they have so many good recipes and ideas and how to advice. Itd be a great place to get different ways to prepare your turkey this year and great leftovers which ill definitely be using for friday and the weekend. You going to ask about the deep fried thing . Not yet. I want to know how you feel about a flat turkey. Youve got to break the turkey. Its not going to look the same when its at the table. But im told a flat turkey . A flat turkey. Supposedly you break the turkey in half and cook it flat. Suggesting that the flavor is much better. What do you think . Yeah, a lot of people like to take off the thighs and wings, its a great way to do it. Its a little labor intensive. The butter ball turkeys, leave it whole, its real easy. Just brush it with some vegetable oil. Thats going to give it that nice golden brown. How do you feel about indoor fryers . Those are great. Indoor fryers, outdoor fryers. Im afraid of those. Its great, its quick. Its about 3 1 2 minutes or minutes per pound. And you take the stuff and the paper out before you cook it too. Yes, you do. Remove that. Dont leave that in. Remove it. Whats the best alcohol to drink besides wild turkey. Was there a stuff red or white, sue . You can go either way. Chardonnays great with a turkey. So its really, you know, its a good thing to have your guests bring too. They can bring their favorite wine or cocktail and have a good time with it. They should bring something. Besides just thats right. You shouldnt do all the work. Its all about spending time with the family. Well, im a bourbon and butter ball guy. Youre bourbon and anything. Its true. Sue, thank you very much. We appreciate it. Once again, we always have fun. Thank you. Have a happy thanksgiving. You too. Youre going to see that very quickly the futures are still a little bit lower. Dow futures down by about 37 points right now. We do have breaking economic news. Jobless claims are being released a day early because of thanksgiving. Well have the number and Market Reaction just ahead. Ing the new dell xps 12. Part of a whole new line of tablets from dell. Its changing the conversation. We create easytouse, powerful Trading Tools for all. Look at these streaming charts theyre totally customizable and they let you visualize what might happen next. Thats genius we knew you needed a platform that could really help you elevate your trading. So we built it. Chances of making this . Its a lot easier to find out if a trade is potentially profitable. Just use our trade probability calculator and there it is. For all the reasons you trade options from income to Risk Management to diversification youll have the tools to get it done. Strategies. Chains. Positions. We put em all on one screen could we make placing a trade any easier . Mmmm. Could we . Around here, options are everything. Yes mom, ill place a long call to you tomorrow. I promise. Open an account today and get a free 13month eibd™ subscription when you call 18882800154 now. Optionsxpress by Charles Schwab. Nespresso. Where i never have to compromise on anything. Where just one touch creates the perfect coffee. Where every cappuccino and latte is only made with fresh milk. And where the staff is exceptionally friendly. Nespresso. What else . Sven gets great rewards for his Small Business how does this thing work . Oh, i like it [ garth ] svens Small Business earns 2 cash back on every purchase, every day woohoo so thats ten security gators, right . Put them on my spark card why settle for less . Testing hot tar. Great businesses deserve great rewards [ male announcer ] the spark Business Card from capital one. Choose unlimited rewards with 2 cash back or double miles on every purchase, every day whats in your wallet . Heres your invoice. Rise above. Corporate bosses are calling on political leaders to take action to avert the fiscal cliff. And if youre looking for a straightshooting voice on this topic, we have him in studio today. Dick kovacevich is our news maker of the hour. Plus, breaking economic news. Weekly jobless claims now just about 30 minutes away. And money manager mario cabeli is ready to gobble up a few more stocks. We like to talk about housing, autos, we can talk about niches. Before you head over the hills and through the woods to grandmothers house, you go the final hour of squawk box begins right now. Welcome back to squawk box here on cnbc first in business worldwide, im joe kernan along with becky quick and andrew rosssorkin. Our guest host mario cabelli. A lot to discuss with him. First, though, becky has a couple of headlines. Greeces International Lenders failing to reach a deal to reduce the countrys debt, and released its next bailout payment. The eurozone finance ministers, the imf and central bank are going to be gathering again on monday, but they need a deal before they can pay out any more of that money out to greece. That is causing consternation. Also, back here in the United States, Hostess Brands is proceeding with the plan to go out of business. The maker of twinkies says that lastminute talks broke down yesterday. A hearing with the bankruptcy judge is set for 11 00 eastern this morning. Kayla tausche will join us from there in the next half hour. And the fbi and s. E. C. Are probing allegations about hewlettpackards purchase of autonomy. Saying it was the victim of a multibillion dollar fraud, they didnt use the word fraud, but every word short of fraud. They say that they were they had uncovered huge accounting issues at the British Company it bought last year. In the meantime, autonomy founder and former ceo told cnbc he was shocked by these allegations and blamed h. P. For mismanagement. This summer, they were called the ultimate value trap, warning about the alpha conference. H he joined us on the line this morning. It was pretty clear if you looked at autonomys books over time that it was in a very, very aggressive rollup. It was buying other companies, it was writing them down before it bought them and putting all kinds of good will on its books. Which for most accounting mai i way to play earnings games going forward. It appears us to us thats what autonomy was doing. He said he watched in horror as hp paid a huge premium on that stock. Ended up shorting hp shares and i think hes made back even more than he lost on the autonomy deal by shorting hp. He says shes still short those hp shares today. And ben bernanke taking on the topic of the fiscal cliff. And warning what could happen. The realization of the automatic tax increases and spending cuts absent offsetting changes would pose a substantial threat to the recovery, indeed by the reckoning of the Budget Office and the cbo and many outside observers, a fiscal shock would send the economy toppling back into recession. Our newsmaker this morning, Dick Kovacevich, were thrilled to have imhad. Happy thanksgiving, thank you for being here. If you were running wells right now, in the midst of this debate about the fiscal cliff, what type of preparations take us sort of behind the scenes. What is a bank doing right now ahead of this to keep itself afloat not afloat, but what are the sort of preparations that need to be done . Well, i think youre watching to see the likelihood of going over not going over the cliff. And its impact on the various businesses you have. The credit risk of what happened to the Housing Markets, et cetera. And you have to make that decision of do you bet one way or the other . Or do you not bet at all . And, you know so what is your bet . My bet is that we can solve this. Before january 1st . Exactly. Now, the bet is that the public is so fed up with washington that theyre going to scare the politicians to not play politics and do the right thing. And thats my hope is that they they now realize that they have to do something. Both parties because the public is going to be very, very displeased if they dont get this. What form do you think it takes . Well, i think theres four things you need to do. And all of these are very doable, can be done by the end of december. It starts with, we do have partisanship, and republicans are not going to convince the democrats to their side and the democrats arent going to convince republicans, so it has to be a compromise. And we dont have time to start all over. So we have to look at what compromises have already are on the table and can they do the job . And i believe they cant. The first compromise is Simpson Bowles, and i think the idea of 1 trillion in revenue and 3 trillion in expenses is doable, its a good start, its probably not perfect. Maybe you make some changes around the edges, but you start with that program and say, okay, how can we get together on that . Simpson bowles also starts to rein in the costs of Social Security and the entitlements with that with some very reasonable things that have been around the table for a long time. What it doesnt do is address medicare. And yet the ryan compromise is on the table. So those are the things i would start with. But importantly, just having an expense reduction and trying to rein in our deficit isnt going to solve any of our future problems, and certainly not entitlement. Youve got to create a Growth Commission. And what the Growth Commission would do is to determine what is needed, what are the whats the environment needed to cause our gdp to grow at 3 to 4 instead of 1 to 2 . And they would address things like tax reform, education, immigration, all things that effect the economy. Thirdly, theres 1. 5 trillion overseas as we know on corporate Balance Sheets thats not going to come to the United States unless we allow it to come at less than 35 tax rate. What i would do is have a 10 surcharge to bring that money back home. Is that a onetime holiday . Ill get to that. And that would bring in immediately 100 billion to 150 billion which should only be used to reduce the deficit. But i would then permanently put in and tell the Growth Commission comes out with maybe a better program, but immediately that you can bring it home in the future at half the Corporate Tax rate or 10 , whichever is less. And finally, and this is very important. I would get agreement that there will be no laws passed that will either increase the cost to corporations, increase the tax rate, increase regulations until the Unemployment Rate falls below 6 . This would give certainty to the future and id even suspend some of the past ones, but that may be too much. And if you did all of these things, very doable, you avoid the fiscal cliff and you get started down the right path to more extensive changes that the Growth Commission would address. Let me ask you a question about housing and the mortgage market. Part of Simpson Bowles and part of the conversation that people are having is about limiting deductions on mortgages. Right. Maybe going from 1 million to 500,000 or perhaps lower. What do you think the real implication on the economy is as a result . Well, it would have some implication. I actually like the idea of a cap on deductions. So that people who where this is important, where the mortgage is important would still do a mortgage. Somebody thats making donations that may be important to them. I think its much better to use this whatever you want to use so itll have a lesser impact because people will select what is most important to them. The problem with housing is if you cant deduct your interest, the 1 million right now is the maximum and you can do that on up to two homes. The second part is the taxes you pay on your home you also deduct. If theyre going to limit that, that is a challenge that you cant overcome. It is a part of the economic model that will create jobs and its on a takeoff stage, youre going to kill it. Im not sure i agree with that. The alternative is rent. Rent has to pay the interest. Doesnt get deducted by the payer of the rent. They have to pay the taxes, they dont get deduction for that. So your alternative is already based into the rental cost. And you have to live somewhere. Which way do you want to do it . We know that people rent all the time. The alternative is youre going to sleep on the street. Go to grandmas. Well, some of that will happen. I really do think we can for most people, if youre talking about the average house is 200,000 in an average estate, real estate taxes in estate, if you have a maximum 17,000, 25,000, youll be able to deduct all the things you need to deduct. Were not going to get Simpson Bowles by january 1st. How do you fix the cliff . Well, all kinds its infini infinite, obviously. But i just dont i think its the wrong approach. Weve been kicking this can down the road for two years. You know what we should do and what youd like, but what are we likely to be able to get done between the House Republicans and president obama . Well whats likely to be done to avert and will we avert the fiscal cliff . You will create 400 billion worth of revenue and avoid 100 billion of expenses, you know. Youll figure that out. You get to revenue how . You would get the revenue by implementing the higher tax rates for higher income people. And you would say that youre going to address tax reform in march or april or june and what do you think the house would agree to . 500,000 . Up two points . Thats the latest thing theyre talking about. Something of that order. 500,000. I think its the wrong approach. I do too. But weve got to do something. And if you say the framework is were going to address on the broader issue of the tax code, if we do that later, what makes that happen . You said weve been kicking the can down the road for two years. The fiscal cliff was supposed to be the gun at their heads to make this happen by now. I think theyll agree theyll have to agree on how much revenue theyre going to generate by some means in the future and how much expenses theyre going to address and what theyre going to do on entitlements. And theyll say, im going to were going to address all three of those and well generate at least 1 trillion in revenue and reduce expenses by 4 trillion, which is what we said last time, right, and put in another fiscal cliff. I thought it was 31 last time. 4 trillion overall, 1 trillion from revenue increases. They didnt get the medicare, and thats why they never put together. Youve got to address medicare. That deals off the table and we dont know if it was on the table as far as the president s concerned. Hes at now lets see, hes at 1. 6 now, he wants in revenue, and four total, thats 2. 4 trillion and 1. 6 trillion. And also, youve got guys like trumpka and the aarp and across the board everyone saying, we just want higher taxes and the entitlements stay the way they are. Thats their bargaining position. The idea was out there two days ago, yesterday the idea was that Rush Limbaugh was moving closer to this idea that you could raise taxes in some way. He came out and said, no way. I know, rush hes not even an elected official. The idea that there had been two days ago talk about thawing around the edges, the more i thought maybe thats not the case. I think its posturing. They have to do something. This is very serious and im saying, i think the public is fed up and theyre going to dick, going back to the clinton tax rates for everybody is one part of the cliff. Thats not the end of the world. If you were to do something on the sequester where you just it wouldnt be the end of the world if we werent in the midst of a recession. This is a major impact on spending. I mean, youre talking about when is a good time to go back to those tax rates, then . I think in the future. 4 goes down 2 , then you cut your 4 growth to 2 , no one wants to do that, if youre at 2 , you cut it to 0 , theres never a good time to bring back taxes on the middle class. I think once the economy is going and unemployment is lower, is what you do. And you put it into the future. You say that, you know, when unemployment is below 6 or something whatever you want just to me, looks like both sides are the president definitely looks more intractable on the high end letting those expire. And the house guys, that i think theyre the last fire wall now against socialism. Theyre going to say no. I think its posture. Both sides, there are you know, in both parties, there are people that say lets go, baby. Lets go over the cliff. You hear it all the time now. I agree with you. I agree with you. They were going over the cliff the last two years. We tell them theyve got to do and over here, we have time, well make well kick it put it out in the future again. Well make plans to make some plans. But it might be, i dont know, sooner or later weve got to do it. Thats what im saying. And i think we have to start now. If we dont start now, i think its going to be very serious. Its going to be interesting. Theres two issues. Fiscal cliff, fiscal abyss. Youve outlined a lot of ways what we need to do, but weve got january 1st. How many days . 40. 40 days and 40 nights. That includes all the holidays. 40 days. Theyve all been addressed, put their positions in, thats why you have to start with things that have already been talked about. Lets take a very quick commercial break. When we come back, we will continue this conversation with former wells fargo chairman and ceo Dick Kovacevich. Also mario gabelli, take a look at the squawk box market indicator. Wow, not often you see that. Markets indicated flat. You can see s p futures are down by less than a point. Tenyear note is also flat at this point. Crude oil up by just about 1. And gold up by 3. 90. Tdd 18003452550 when im trading, im totally focused. Tdd 18003452550 tdd 18003452550 and the streetsmart edge Trading Platform from Charles Schwab. Tdd 18003452550 gives me tools that help me find opportunities more easily. Tdd 18003452550 i can even access it from the cloud and trade on any computer. Tdd 18003452550 and with schwab mobile, tdd 18003452550 i can focus on trading anyplace, anytime. Tdd 18003452550 until i choose to focus on something else. Tdd 18003452550 trade at Charles Schwab for 8. 95 a trade. Tdd 18003452550 open an account and trade up to tdd 18003452550 6 months commissionfree online equity trading tdd 18003452550 with a 50,000 deposit. Tdd 18003452550 call 18008368799. If we want to improve our schools. What should we invest in . Maybe New Buildings . What about updated equipment . They can help, but recent research shows. Nothing transforms schools like investing in advanced teacher education. Lets build a strong foundation. Lets invest in our teachers so they can inspire our students. Lets solve this. Can i still ship a gift in time for christmas . Yeah, sure you can. Great. Wheres your gift . Uh. Whew. [ male announcer ] break from the holiday stress. Ship Fedex Express by december 22nd for christmas delivery. Welcome back, everybody. We continued our conversation with Dick Kovacevich right through this commercial break. One of the things you said at the top of the last block was that housing would be in a tough position if we go over the fiscal cliff. Could you lay out what it looks like if we do. What are the real numbers . Because its starting to come back. And the fiscal cliff, unemployment is going to go up dramatically. The only real way to get housing booming again is youve got to get unemployment down. And people, and its not just the unemployed. Youve got to make sure that the people that are employed have confidence theyre going to continue to be employed. So housing is the greatest value weve ever had in the last 50 years with the low Interest Rates and the cost of housing. But if youre afraid youre going to lose your job, youre not going to buy that house. You see things freezing up if we go over the fiscal cliff. Were seeing the opposite of that. Weve got to continue this momentum. People are buying houses now. They know these are the lower prices. Housing prices are rising. I better get going. And if we break this momentum after three years of declines, it would be a real shame. Is that thats happening in spite of high unemployment numbers still. Whats driving the recovery at this point in housing . Well, because again, its not unemployment thats the problem, its the other 20 of the people that are working that are worried one way or another. Are they worried theyre going to become unemployed . Or are they more confident they arent going to become unemployed . Whats happening now is theyre more confident that they are not going to become unemployed so theyre going to start investing in automobiles and housing and so on. If this fiscal cliff works, that confidence level is going to be shattered. And the restoration of it is going to be much more difficult. How many times are we going to go through this process . Why would you believe if they say were going to fix it march 31st, or june, why would anyone believe that . I dont know why we believe it even if you have a patch on the fiscal cliff that doesnt deal with the fiscal abyss. No, but if the patch is everyones saying its not going to happen and obama wont compromise and boehner wont compromise. If they do compromise, even though its not perfect and the public says they did come together and they did make a start, then i think theyll have more confidence the only type of deal you get where both sides would agree a compromise where you basically give away everything again and both sides get to go back and say they got everything they wanted where you dont make serious changes to entitlements, where you dont make serious changes to revenue. Seems like you continue this party that everybodys had going on where were going to lower taxes across the board, not going to worry about this stuff and keep thinking about it at a later day. I say the opposite is that the republicans will get entitlement reform and democrats will get higher revenue in taxes. You get what you really want and you and as i said, you have to compromise. And i would say that thats whats going to happen or should happen. And if it does, even though it doesnt solve the problem permanently, people say maybe we are on a new track now. From my point of view, youve got 40 days, youre in the middle of a river, youre drowning, got to get to the other side before you stop longterm solutions, how do we get to the other side, dry land right now in the next 40 days when everyone is taking vacations for thanksgiving and then christmas . Yeah, you Want Congress sitting there. I want something done in the next 40 days. Fix a patch, certain things have to happen and then you deal with the structural issues and work on it. Youre not going to solve it in 40 days. Dick says thats a confidence booster if you see a compromise or some sort of patch. Thats a compromise that would give boost to the Housing Market or continue the momentum there. Is that the same sort of thing well, the Housing Market is the Housing Market is on its clear path. But the motion of the consumer Balance Sheet and improving. And youve got to solve this issue with regard to confidence and keep the momentum in the economy going. Because we are the oasis left in the world at this point in time until the chinese kick in. Because europes not solving the problem. Publicity you guys are giving to this issue is terrific. And that will be helpful in getting do you think republicans will let marginal rates rise if they had a promise that Simpson Bowles would eventually be enacted and all rates would again fall . I dont think republicans will let and i also dont think that the president will give you a guarantee that marginal rates will fall to the Simpson Bowles 28 . Well, the point is, you dont have to promise. Why not just do it if you believe that . I would call the bluff. Why are we talking about im strapped in my toboggin. I dont think they will believe them. You can do it today. Coming up thank you. Happy thanksgiving. Weekly jobless claims because were not here tomorrow. With the spark miles card from capital one, thor gets great rewards for his Small Business your boa [ garth ] thors Small Business earns double miles on every purchase, every day ahh, the new fabrics. Put it on my spark card. Ow. [ garth ] why settle for less . The spiked heels are working. Wait [ garth ] great businesses deserve great rewards. [ male announcer ] the spark Business Card from capital one. Choose unlimited rewards with double miles or 2 cash back on every purchase, every day whats in your wallet . [ cheers and applause ] or that printing in color had to cost a fortune. Nobody said an allinone had to be bulky. Or that you had to print from your desk. At least, nobody said it to us. Introducing the business smart inkjet allinone series from brother. Easy to use. Its the ultimate combination of speed, small size, and lowcost printing. [ female announcer ] today, its not just about who lives in the white house, its about who lives in the yellow house, the green, and the apartment house, too. Today we not only honor the oval office, but we honor the cubicle, and the home office as well. Because today its about all of us. And no matter who you are, youre the commanderinchief of your own life. Weekly jobless claims coming up next. When we return, dont go anywhere. Is is steve. He loves risk. But whether hes climbing everest, scuba diving the Great Barrier reef with sharks, or jumping into the market, he goes with people he trusts, which is why he trades with a company that doesnt nickel and dime him with hidden fees. So he can worry about other things, like what the market is doing and being ready, no matter what happens, which isnt rocket science. Its just common sense, from td ameritrade. Nespresso. Where i never have to compromise on anything. Where just one touch creates the perfect coffee. Where every cappuccino and latte is only made with fresh milk. And where the staff is exceptionally friendly. Nespresso. What else . Welcome back to squawk box. We have some thursday data out on wednesday. Initial jobless claims, 410,000. Now, thats Pretty Amazing because thats pretty much what everybody was looking for, and thats coming off of an upwardly revised 439,000 that became 451,000. So were down 41,000 from that revised number. And the revised number is a year and a half high basically from the spring of 2011. Continuing claims, 3. 337. So well call it a whisker shy of 3. 334. No great shakes there. Couple of things jump out at me. Dow futures, basically unchanged. The volume numbers on the electronic platform are pretty quiet. We see a 167 on a tenyear, which is basically a twoweek high on the yields. And we still have university of michigan final november number coming out. And thats very important because the preliminary read was the best in five years. Noteworthy. The dollar is just screaming again against the yen. I mean, it is an unbelievable move over the last three or four weeks. And just to give you an idea, the nikkei would be up about 9 , 10 unless you were holding it in yen in the u. S. In which case it would only be up about 1 . So you can see how the currency of choice that you hold in Investments Overseas can make a whopper of a difference in your return. Back to you. All right. Great. The teleprompter now, this is all we need to say. And thats and i hope we have applause ready. Steve liesman is onset right now. Steve liesman is onset. Thank you. Thank you. And why did i dont know why it says that. Thats all it says. Am i responsible for whats in the prompter . Dont turn to me. Thats all you need to tell viewers. Thats all you need to tell viewers, its click, turn and they go to the today show or wherever they go. And i have a variety of things for you. You do. Maybe i didnt tell them what i was going to have. There we go. Thats very nice. First of all, its interesting, were going to watch Consumer Sentiments to see if this fiscal cliff stuff is finally going to be felt by the consumer. Ill talk about the consumer in a second. You dont think it is . I dont know. Its strange weve had this surge in Consumer Sentiment while all we do and everybody else does is talk about the cliff. First i want to look at sandy and katrina. Because we were lucky, i made this chart before we went on. And turns out the estimate was exactly right. If you have that graphic, i dont know if you have that graphic. Lets see if you have that graphic. Im holding here for five, four, maybe not. What it shows is that there it is, thats katrina in the blue, and thats sandy in the green. You can see the pop there and its come down. So another week of elevated jobless claims would be normal here. Continuing claims too early, thats a week behind to show up here. So were right in the range of where you would expect to be if sandy was an event along the lines of katrina. Next thing is this sentiment number. You had courtney on talking about Holiday Christmas sales. I want to do a prechristmas consumer checkup on their finances. I dont know if you remember. Maybe you dont, unemployment a year ago, what was the number . A year ago we were like a point higher. 9 ,. 1 . Most of the metrics you might care about appear to have moved in the right direction for the consumer going into this holiday season. I dont know theyre going to spend. I dont know how cheery theyre going to feel. But when you compare this year versus last year, unemployment is down and, guys, i dont know if you have that chart i had in the back there, but unemployment is down. Wage and salary gains yearoveryear are higher this year. Debt levels are down. And home prices are up. So when i check those four particular metrics take home pay has improved because its 2 less. Well, no, thats going to go the other way in january. Right now that is right. So i dont know, mario, are you optimistic about what happens this christmas . I cant tell the next element. Which is the discounts im going to get on merchandise at the retailer level and how do i feel when traffic is going to do quite well. And i cant see anything but good news at christmas. Is there are there stocks you were thinking of that might be ones that are no. None. Has the market priced in this surge we had we had good retail sales and we had we have decent Consumer Sentiment. Is the market there or back because of fiscal cliff . Different issue. Investors that we deal with, private wealth management, smaller investors, couple of Million Dollars of investable funds, they are very, very concerned because what happened in september of 08 and what happened in july and august of 2011, and they are pulling out of the market. And theyre if you listened to bernanke yesterday, by the way, two things he pointed out. Dont just solve the fiscal cliff problem, dont do another debt ceiling dance we did a year ago. February 1st, january 31st, thats the next element. And he was saying, which he has said before, i dont know maybe why people got excited about this. But he said before the fed cant offset the effects of the fiscal cliff. And all the guys that come in and, you know, all of his minions. Say the same thing. Say that all the time. The french. Dude. No aaa, the french lost the aaa. You had a Company Called hostess where there was a confrontation of philosophies and look what happened. Not all the jobs will be lost because others will pick up the demand. Somebody has to make bread and somebody has to eat it. They wont necessarily be with the same teammates. Wont be the same people same employees. Thats the sad part. And just take that element and go to congress. What . And say, okay, were going to whats going to happen . And youre dealing in issues that really make individuals nervous. Rick, are you still there . Of course i am. Do you think we could is it possible were all wrong and the cliff could be like y2k and we could wake up and the sun came up . I think it is possible. I think it is possible because i think, you know, theres a lot of aspects to the cliff. Theres certain aspects i personally think should be left alone to expire like payroll tax hikes, Social Security has enough problems without taking out their hand to mouth funding. But, you know, issues with the military and jobs. Im not saying dont cut the military, theres a lot of fat there, but the way its happening, of course, is the lazy factor that we didnt settle it up last year. So, yes, i do think its possible. And i also think Todays University of Michigan Sentiment survey is going to give us a very important read. Because if the public is grabbing on to this or not, you know, thatll give you another is this more of a media kind of an insider, you know, kind of political issue, or is it an issue thats really affecting the middle class. And on some level, it really is going to give us an insight into how great our government is. You said it earlier, the reality is the pursestrings are still held by the same people they were held at in the two year ago midterm elections. Yeah. And you know, we have a debt ceiling issue thats going to figure in prominently, you know, our treasury secretary basically thinks that, you know, down here they call them to infinity and beyond because they think thats what he wants. They think we ought to have a Christmas Toy or toy story 4 that has our treasury secretary as the prominent star. Right. Because people down there think the United States government should default on the obligations, is that the thinking . No, what i think they should do is they shouldnt give a teenager a checkbook that never has to be balanced. Thats what. Whos the teenager here . The government. And which part of the government, rick . What do you want i dont know, steve. How about the part that generated 16 trillion in debt. Whether its this administration, the previous administration, theres a lot of guilty administrations. But ill tell you what, were not going to have more than two or three more administrations if we dont deal with it. I agree. I agree. But im just not sure right now is the time to make it happen. Okay. Hey, youre right on part of that. You know, after the 1934 election, if i do recall, the knuckle heads then raised taxes and we it was 37, i think, yeah. No, i wasnt there, but i read the definitive book, the forgotten man, a new history of depression, not what we hear on the other side that always talks about like ben, we have to do what we failed to do last time. Its a completely different scenario this time. Gentlemen, we wish you both a happy thanksgiving. Rick and steve, really, happy thanksgiving. Break some bread. Good to be on a program with you. You didnt see me do that that time . Do you think you did that . Which one . I addressed rick with the question with you sitting here. Definitely behind the scenes there. You go and get a check im like kevin clash. I dont think referring to yourself as kevin clash is a good idea. He is replaceable. Dont worry, elmo will live on. Youre so worried about that. No. The other piece of its more disturbing. Hostess brands will proceed with a plan to go out of business. The maker of twinkies says lastminute talks broke down yesterday. Hearing with a bankruptcy judge is set for this morning. Kayla tausche is there. Kayla . Reporter good morning to you, andrew, we are outside the Bankruptcy Court at 11 00 this morning hostess will put forth a plan to shut down and the judge is likely to approve that after the emergency talks between hostess and the dissident union of bakers fell apart. The chief of the bakers union was not present and has not returned hostess calls for months. Not really a surprise those talks fell apart. Heres what the plan will look like today. Hostess will put forth a plan to cut the staff to 3,200 people. Theyll also put forth equity incentives for managers to stay on and help with the wind down. Thats likely to be a point of contention because the judge already on monday said that was probably too sweet of a deal considering how many jobs are being lost. Now, the ceo greg rayburn has said previously that hostess is currently spending about 1 million a day to affect the shutdown. Even though its closing, its really no cheap matter here. They had to shut three plants because of the protest of the bakers union. They shut 33 more plants, thats 36 altogether. Hostess employed 18,500 people. And while some of those jobs could be spared, its expected after the plan to liquidate is approved today, the buyers could come out of the woodwork, but this is not for hostess the company, for specific brands, many of these companies only wanted to deal with hostess if they were unencumbered by unions, which is what is expected to happen today. Coming up on squawk box, the spirit of the season, the booming business of online wine sales. Its going to get fun on the set here. And then later today, a washington tradition at 1 00 eastern time, president obamas going to pardon the National Thanksgiving turkey during a ceremony in the white house rose garden. Well, the folks at the butter ball hot line are busy fielding questions today. What a segue, right . And we talked to one expert earlier in the show as americans get ready for tomorrow. The phone lines there are lighting up. [ engine revs ] [ male announcer ] the mercedesbenz winter event is back, with the perfect vehicle thats just right for you, no matter which list youre on. [ santa ] ho, ho, ho, ho [ male announcer ] lease a 2013 c250 for 349 a month at your local mercedesbenz dealer. Welcome back to squawk box. This is pretty cool. A College Sports record was shattered. Grinnell College Player jack taylor scored 138 points in one game. He broke the ncaa scoring record in division three. It was a 179104 victory over faith baptist bible last night. He made 27 of 71 threepoint attempts. But membership point was, he took 71 threepoint shots. He was outside that line 71 times throwing it up. I mean, watching that game, it must have been anyway, he was under 50 . 52 of 108 overall, 7 out of 10 free throws. But this, i guess this guys offense is like almost like hockey. They run down and shoot it and while theyre running substitutes come in and start running while the other guys run out, and hes got this fastbreak offense, must be fun to watch. You noticing this not to get away from sports this is oh, wow. So he is saying we were not involved during the Due Diligence process. When hp was buying autonomy. It was the lawyer for autonomy that hp says it relied upon during the process. You hate sports, basically. I love basketball and i do love that. Still counting numbers, though. Whether its audited numbers or unaudited. Deloit was not involved in that 138point basketball game. Maybe that 138point might have been 139 for all we know. May have been fraud. Squawk box is getting into the spirit of the holidays this morning with rich bergson. Im glad youre with us, rich. Is turkey white meat . You know what, rich . Theres dark meat turkey. Im totally confused. What are you supposed to drink . What kind of wine . Well, any kind of wine is fine with thanksgiving you usually start out with a little bubbly and little white wine as you get into the meal and red like some pinot nior. Maybe a dessert wine too. That, as well. All of those available at wine. Com for you. And most people, unlike me, they look at the year the wine was made not the alcohol content. Is that fair to say . Yeah. I think, you know, both are sometimes important to folks, but thats one of the many facts you can learn about the wine on wine. Com. But i think the year right now, the current vintages are the 08s, 09s, so forth. A lot of people besides joe look at the alcohol content as a selling point. I think mad dog, you can do that. You know, if you do aspire to being a wino. We call those date wines at wine. Com. Yeah. Date wine. How have sales been with the fiscal cliff and versus a couple years ago during the financial crisis . Yeah, theyve been strong. We havent seen any issues so far. Just so far in november were up about 20 , 30 across the board in the different segments of business were in. Would you call it inelastic. It really is, isnt it . People are going to drink wine. Maybe not, at restaurants at restaurants they complain people dont order the expensive bottles. Might trade down a little in weak economic times. What was your average price per bottle . Your average ticket . Were doing about 28, 29 a bottle. In 08, we saw some softening, but people were spending less per bottle, but they were buying more bottles. And per order . Versus a year ago . Per order about 160 up from about 150 a year ago. Terrific. Do you sell distilled spirits, booze. Just wine. Thank you. You cant use the mail, right . We use u. P. S. , fedex, and shipping wines difficult because of the regulatory environment, so we have a network of warehouses around the country that enables us to navigate those would you use the u. S. Postal service if they were allowed to ship for you . Sure we would. Yeah, they dont do wine. Is there a problem with new jersey trying to get wine. They were worried about sending it to new jersey. Different state. I cant send wine in new jersey from outside new jersey, so we have a warehouse local to new jersey. Why cant you do that . Its state laws that are constrained shipping wine across borders. It comes back to boardwalk empire. Probably does. Prohibition and a lot of laws that have been on the books for years and years. Have you hired anyone recently . Yes. Are you expanding . Yes. In general, wine. Coms growing 20 or so a year. But this time of year, we triple our workforce for december because the warehouses and the call centers get very busy for all the gifts that goes on. More Seasonal Workers than last year, rich . More Seasonal Workers than last year, yep. Probably 10 , 15 more than10 , year. Im not sure what you meant. Im afraid to talk about it because i dont know if you want a cheap wine or powerful wine. Im not sure what youre saying there, rich. Cheap, powerful wine, both. When you said 28 a bottle, im thinking, whoa, whoa, what kind of a date are you talking about . Rich, we appreciate it. Happy thanksgiving. Thanks for playing along. Coming up, a perfect gift for any investors stock picks from mario gabelli, thats next. Were off thanksgiving but join us friday morning. Were officially opening the Holiday Shopping season with macys ceo. Having you ship my gifts couldnt be easier. Well, having a ton of locations doesnt hurt. And my daughter loves the santa. Oh, ah sir. That is a customer. Lets not tell mom. [ male announcer ] break from the holiday stress. Fedex office. Coming up before we hit the road for thanksgiving, the last word from mario gabelli, some more stocks. Friday on squawk box, while others are sleeping off the turkey, were going shopping for the real story on the american consumer. With with famed retail analyst dana telsey, the ceo of macys, top executives of two of the nations biggest malls and hd Property Brothers friday on squawk box at 6 a. M. Eastern. [ male announcer ] you are a business pro. Governor of getting it done. You know how to dance. With a deadline. And you. Rent from national. Because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle. And go. You can even take a fullsize or above, and still pay the midsize price. This is awesome. [ male announcer ] yes, it is, business pro. Yes, it is. Go national. Go like a pro. Olaf gets great rewards for his Small Business pizza [ garth ] olafs Small Business earns 2 cash back on every purchase, every day helium delivery. Put it on my spark card [ pop ] [ garth ] why settle for less . Great businesses deserve great rewards awesome [ male announcer ] the spark Business Card from capital one. Choose unlimited rewards with 2 cash back or double miles on every purchase, every day whats in your wallet . Welcome back. Lets get back to our guest host, mario gabelli. You have close to ten stocks . Taxes are coming down and it will help domestic small cap stocks. Secondly, companies will want to grow, so what will they buy . Pep boys, stock is 10, superior industry that sells aluminum wheels. Sup . A smart balance because glutenfree that was smart balance. Smart ball, smbl. In addition to that friisher broadcasting, i paid 10, the stock is 25. I think theyre worth 40 . Whats the name . Fisher broadcasting in seattle. Hill sh hillshire youre repeating. Different audience, darling. You keep interrupting me. You must own a lot because youve mentioned that twice. No, i own sara lee and ive owned it for four years. Bonda no, small caps. A couple of companies in the health care area. Endo pharma, a company endo pharma . Endo . Booze companies, larger which will be taken over. Beam, which was a spinoff from fortune brands, home and hardware. I brought you a bottle. Home and hardware, there you have a long, long traction with regards to housing. Anyone that sells to housing will do extraordinarily well. I said you and your stocks gff you and your stocks have a lot in common. Youre both extraordinarily cheap. They make doors for garages, joe. Which one . You arent listening . I know. Gff, griffin. They did a lousy acquisition gff. Gff, garage doors. I got it. Are they going to get are they going to get hope from sandy . I mean no. Its too small. Remodeling is important who taking them out . No, i think theyll split into pieces. Financial engineering is a way to make money as well. Splitting a company into pieces. Trader out of richmond, virginia, stock is you like treader. Tg is the symbol. A basket of stocks you can look at. There are so many that are yummies. Yummies . Buying in minority position. On larger companies, companies that basically would fit into the basket, the