Transcripts For CNBC Squawk Box 20120703

purchase of a quan tiff. microsoft made the deal in 2007. at the time the time they made the purchase to catch up with google in search related display advertising. steve? >> thanks, michelle. pre-holiday shortened session for wall street today. equity trading will wrap up at 1:00 p.m. eastern time. there will be no trading tomorrow. but the flood gates will lift on jobs data on thursday with the adp and challenging reports. plus the jobless claims. all that ahead of friday's government jobs report. today the focus turns to automakers. the big fear rolling out june sales which are expected to fall just short of 14 million annual rate. this would be the second month in a row under 14 million. the shares are up 21% compared to a year ago. the fdic and the federal reserve are expected to publish the public portion of the living wills of big banks and financial institutions. it will be by the end of business day today. the first group of reports are from bank of america, barclays, citigroup, deutsche bank, goldman sachs, morgan stanley and ubs. the plans will detail how each company would conduct a quick and orderly resolution in bankruptcy in the event of failure or material distress. they're under the dodd/frank financial reform law. >> we'll be watching the shares of boeing. they've increased this 20-year forecast predicting demand for 34,000 new jets worth $4.5 trillion. that's up from a prior forecast of 33,500 jets that would have been worth just $4 trillion. it cites growth in emerging markets by airliners to use more fuel efficient aircraft. most companies have trouble with the next 20 weeks. not the next 20 years. these are long order businesses. you look at what it takes to build a jet. you see the big huge places where they're built, the biggest buildings in the world are where they put these things together and you see the fuselage and all these guys working and it is very cool. it takes a long time. they probably have a pretty good idea of what they're going to need. if you've driven any time recently with children, you'll see why the jet market is such a viable -- >> tell me why. >> you haven't? even if you go just to south carolina, it takes like 14 hours and you pass thousands of these big semis where every time you pass you're hoping something -- it just is a lot better. are we there yet? are we there yet? are we there yet? >> they don't make flying an easy process. >> the worst it can be is two hours. not 14 hours. >> right. >> it's just much safer and we're going to, as, no matter how much some people don't like globalization, you won't get rid of jet fuel and jetliners and moving things and people that way. let's check on the markets this morning. kind of a boring close when it was all said and done yesterday. even after the lousy factoring. >> considering the factory orders. >> futures this morning are down about 24 points. fair value, as you can see, on a percentage basis, down a fifth of a point. the oil markets, after that big gain on friday, consolidated a little. up again today. the ten-year, which is something that has confounded us. going on almost as long as the maturity of the note itself. at least -- it's confounded us for five years. >> longer. >> maybe longer. >> i remember one time saying on the set one morning. >> this is when the ten year was at like 4%. he said if you were buying the ten-year with a 4% yield, would you send us an e-mail. we can't find anybody. we got nothing. >> it's another in a long line of -- >> we attribute to the chinese. it must be the chinese. >> 6:04 and 34 seconds. joe starts in. >> line of -- >> joe starts in already. >> being pretty right about -- >> you have. >> is there someone that you're implying has been really wrong about it that might work in chicago and might want to argue with later today sm. >> he called me yesterday about a really nice topic. we talked about it on the phone on the side about he got invitation to a zz top concert. pretty cool. >> guitar playing. >> get this next big story. i thought about making a joke about how the jpmorgan loss was eventually going to get this guy, bob diamond, jamie dimon. how many people are confused. >> the guy who resigned today gets to run jpmorgan, right? >> no. but that's -- you can't make jokes like that. you just can't. >> why couldn't can't you? >> i made an aqua man joke once -- >> a what? >> the idiots at the new york post or the hollywood reporter that have never seen the show because they have no money to invest, i guess, the owe o. >> reporters. that's another dig. in case you haven't realized. it's another dig at me that hopefully -- >> i don't make jokes like that anymore. >> 9:01 is when you begin the jokes for the next day. you're a staff of one. he has all these people. >> joe doesn't need his job. >> i know bob diamond. i think this is -- >> health care companies. >> is a scapegoat here and ep probably had to go, i guess. >> not well-liked apparently. >> i like him. i think he was -- >> do you know him? >> i do. i think he was a good ceo. he did a lot for barclays. i don't think this is the end of him. he may be 60. just 60 or maybe 59. who knows whether we see him -- it's hard to be an american ceo. it's like american werewolf in london. >> refusing to admit or not wanting to say out loud. because they busted these guys, consumer interest rates might go up. could not verbalize that. >> no he couldn't. >> the american werewolf in london. >> i did a story many years ago when bp took over an coe. there was supposed to be a merger of equals. the bp guys pushed out the amoco guys. >> bob's teeth are very straight. he spoke with immediately over there. i'm sure kelly has problems assimilating. >> she does. >> if you ever call garbage garbage instead of rubbish and if you don't see -- >> you get in a line instead of a cue. >> if you don't like the awful food that they serve up. >> and you mean i hate it. that's interesting which is that's awful that euphemistic. >> bloody good. >> that means i love it, i don't know? >> we're talking about the guests we see on worldwide exchange. the hair, i hope they're smart. >> i'm sure they are, like kelly. >> they must be. >> let's -- >> funny little men. >> let's talk about culture. >> funny little men. >> kelly is standing by in london. more on mr. diamond's resigning from -- >> kelly, did you sipe you sign this? >> i don't know what you guys are talking about. i'm having a great time over here. i am trying to learn the terminology still, but the word about bob diamond stepping down as ceo of barclays came at about 7:30 a.m. london time. so it was about 2:30 a.m. back in the u.s. jaws were dropping. this of course, comes a day after marcus agius said he was going to step down. he will be coming back to take on the role of running the company and finding new management. we've had guests this morning saying they think it should be someone from outside. the wall street journal is saying the coo could be the next one out. rich richie who runs the investment bank, not necessarily hearing the same about him just yet. take a look at what's happening with barclays shares behind me. this is interesting. up 2.8%. on a day when there are concerns about who long-term is running the company, shares which which were down sharply, they're rallying on the news. if you look at the value here, remember this was the uk bank that wasn't -- that's not taxpayer owned at least. this was one of the ones that was better run and is there value to be had. especially as other banks start to enter the crosshairs. this goes back to the libor fixing probe which has been in the news ever since the record $450 million fine was announced to barclays last week. take a look at what's happening to other banks behind me. kind of a mixed day. generally pointed to the upside. rbs notably down .8 of a percent. we don't yet know who might be next. something in the range of 2 dozen banks are being investigated in the u.s. and in other countries as well. because libor, you guys, while it is a london rate, it is a rate set by global banks and it is a global benchmark. focus, in fact, is shifting back to the bba which is tasked with collecting the rate. focus is shifting back to england. there were reports this morning, before we heard about the resignation of diamond before he testifies before the treasury, he'll give detail about conversations that he had. in any case, let's look at how this has affected market as we turn to hand off to you guys in the states, we are seeing green as we continue the relief rally of the european debt crisis summit. the ftse 100, again bolstered by what's happening with banks. up .3 of a percent. as we continue to watch the next headlines to come in as libor fixing scandal, keep in mind, what if anything replaces libor, what were regulators doing about it and what the future of bar kplis going to be. >> jamie dimon is fine, right, kelly? he's no relation? >> joe, i don't think your play on the word diamond is working very well. >> a lot of things have not been working with you, kelly. you're very serious over there. you're quite a reporter. >> i am not. you keep saying this. >> it is a british quality. last week she was not going to let me tell it's so hot joke. she was going to take it and talk and i had to -- it was impossible. see, this is our show over here. we are allowed to talk. anyway, thank you kelly. we appreciate it. see you thursday maybe. >> bye. >> steve? >> what is a singer doing at the head of a big bank? >> i'm totally lost. >> neil diamond. >> of course. >> can we talk about the microsoft story this morning. >> sure. >> it's a paper loss. one of the things where they're going to write off a prior acquisition. isn't this emblem attic of a company that has tried year after year to change what it has done. >> you would say say flailing in trying to -- >> you just said it. >> trying to get into new businesses. this is not the first one. it's been hard. because windows, the -- one of the great he's successes in american history, obviously in business as an operating system, you think about year in and year out, you think microsoft is a mature company and you look at their revenue. everything else they've tried. >> x-box. >> that kind of worked. we have two of them because we had to get the old one for the games. >> is that -- >> that's playstation. >> my family is 60 to 70% windows-free right now. i just got the ipad. i'm using the ipad as my mobile computer now. >> we switched completely. >> my wife has one -- >> i still see that the insufferable -- >> here at the office. >> only at the office. >> iphone has managed to cross the consumer corporate divide. it's finally happened, right? >> we took it on. the way we sort of can be -- i just insulted the entire i.t. section at cnbc. >> they refused. i can make my apple work on the road with the system here. >> you insulted the entire british empire this morning. >> the i.t. department -- >> done a lot of good stuff in this whole financial crisis. >> you got to hand it to them that they kept their currency. to this day. >> that's true. >> they looked and said you're kidding right? >> and told them to stuff it on a financial trend. i love that. >> remember back then we thought they were keeping it for silly national is particular reasons like we would never give up the pound. do you think understood? >> i do. >> did they make the right decision for the right reasons? >> yeah. >> i remember economists criticizing them that they were just holding on to it for -- >> i don't see how you can call anybody silly to retain their ability on their currency. when you talk to the financial people, the treasurers in latin america who talk about dollarizing the western hemisphere. no. need control. >> get rid of the transaction tax. not really a tax. the cost. >> and if you were moving towards greater european integration, which by the way is where the world was moving when we did this. >> the germans would never give up the deutsche mark. but they had to because -- >> they have benefitted from it. >> that's right. that's probably right. they're not a big exporter the way germany is. coming up, will there be a change to beat the heat this fourth of july? the weather channel update is next and when the fireworks are all over, the countdown to the jobs report will start. will there be anyone around? >> neil diamond. >> just resigned from barclays. >> react to the numbers come friday. kevin ferry will be around. he joins us next. and neil diamond. >> taking us to -- "squawk box" is coming right back. [ male announcer ] summer is here. and so too is the summer event. now get an incredible offer on the powerful, efficient c250 sport sedan with an agility control sport-tuned suspension. but hurry before this opportunity...disappears. ♪ the mercedes-benz summer event ends july 31st. ♪ ends july 31st. this is new york state. we built the first railway, the first trade route to the west, the greatest empires. then, some said, we lost our edge. well today, there's a new new york state. one that's working to attract businesses and create jobs. a place where innovation meets determination... and businesses lead the world. the new new york works for business. find out how it can work for yours at thenewny.com. the the nasdaq by 1.75. nearly 1.8 million people in ohio, west virginia, maryland and virginia and washington are still without power. more than three days after a violent storm swept through the region. power companies say it could be several days before all services are restored. there's no relief from the heat wave that's gripped the midwest to the northeast. let's get the forecast in fact from the weather channel's maria larosa. maria. >> good morning. the short answer is that there's no relief in sight. the reason is this h. usually stands for high pressure. stands for hot. without this moving, nothing to get it out of place. that heat center is going to stay there. you may see some spots shift here and there within a few degrees, overall, it's going to be that oppressive heat. we're talking from 100 degrees in kansas city to 103 in north platte, des moines. 98 degrees in chicago. close to 100 degrees tomorrow. official heat wave under way here. along with that, you're seeing the high humidity as well. a lot of these places that heat index will push the 105, 110 the dangerous gory. wednesday rockford at 99. if you're not rained out for your fourth of july, chances are some spots canceling because of the heat and the dryness. not the case to the northern end here of this high pressure where we're seeing some showers and thunderstorms begin to pop in through places like minneapolis and eau claire and some of those may be on the strong side during the day today. it will be the northeast later tomorrow that could see some of the stronger thunderstorms. that means, there may be some fourth of july fireworks displays in jeopardy. as far as today, from detroit to pittsburgh, gusty winds and maybe hail. the biggest threat, the northeast today though, a little bit of a break. we're seeing comfortable temperatures into the northeast. eventually, this warm front will make a surge to the north. a heat watch posted for philadelphia today. new york close to 90 degrees. 98 in d.c. and as you mentioned, a lot of folks still without power. back to you. >> you want me to say it? >> yes. >> thank you, maria did he larosa? >> all right. let's check on the market. >> you did that r. that's good. >> turn to kevin ferry. chief market strategist. kevin, i think -- i'm a deep thinker. so july 4th, unlike easter, is always on the same day. it's on a wednesday this year, right? what does that mean for the week in terms of trading volume and do a lot of people realize that it's the middle of the week for a wednesday and take off? have you noticed this week how slow things actually are? it's midsummer and midweek holiday. how much action do you expect? >> well, it will stay volatile, but you're definitely on to what traders are going to be focused on. the b team is in. moves are going to be more exemplified than ever. i think you saw the first sign of that last friday where people passed around shorts for most of the session. you had an extreme reaction. yesterday, it was all about commodities, big breadth, people playing the weak numbers, meaning more central bank action. so a lot of movement in commodities. so the few people that are here pushing it around the best they can. >> kevin, big story today is obviously bob diamond and we haven't gotten -- you know the money markets as well as anyone. barclays was completely alone. you figured -- can other places at least massage these numbers at all? what do you make of that whole scandal and we were pointing out yesterday, they weren't overcharging peoplement they were probably trying to keep things low to make it look like they're a safe bank, right? >> right, right. huge story, obviously. the fact that it started prior to the crisis is really where the people should focus, especially the testimony tomorrow when the guy has to go up there and explain himself. i think that a lot more is to come obviously. i think that one of the key things that i've said for a long time, you know where i stand on this issue. the real thing to watch out for is that, like any cartel, what they're saying is we all felt the other guy was cheating. and so we cheated. so i think that really speaks to the miss placement of this rate over a long period of time. and especially because it started prior to the crisis. >> kevin, can you say that consumers ended up paying or businesses ended up paying more or less on their interest rate because of what was going on, the manipulation that was going on in. >> no, i couldn't. but i do know i trade enough for these futures contracts -- >> why not? can't we assume they were trying to push the rate lower and if you have a credit card or mortgage rate pushed to libor, they're pushing -- the consumers got a lower rate? >> we're assuming that this all took place past the crisis. prior to that, the fed had raised the rate 14 times in a row. so it's also reasonable to believe that they were trying to get higher settings prior to 20 -- >> than gary genz letter gave us yesterday. >> i any a conversation you and i had at the high of the crisis that the libor rate, one of the hundreds of ones we had. that the libor rate was only something they published. it had nothing to do with the actual rates of bisque conducted against the banks. >> right. i think they're admitting that. if they weren't trying to push it down, talk about the crisis. then go hit the bid. if they thought that barclays it hit the bid in the cds and tell the guy bidding in the cds that you were wrong. they didn't do that. >> i want to turn the topic. we finished 8.5 points lower yesterday. we were down as much as 40 which was not a whole lot more. kr did the market react so -- what's the right word? benignly to the negative economic yesterday? >> i think it's well in front of that story. still, those are important numbers. ism numbers are the ones to watch. i think it is impressive, especially what took place on friday. we certainly thought the market could have set back equitywise more than it did on that information. the bond market was strong. even on friday afternoon and again yesterday. they're buying into it. i think the tell was in commodities. you've got the herd, what i call the teenagers coming in and we're going to get more central bank liquidity, so let's go play and that's why the market held. >> it's a day, kevin, where we're getting closer to the h s higs -- and it's going to come soon. in the papers. don't worry about it. the answer to all living things and all -- in the universe. we're getting closer to the god particle. where i'm going with this is sort of a theoretical question about the difference -- the difference between central bankers and private bankers. i'm just wondering -- >> it's totally -- >> yesterday's joke. >> it's not a joke. i'm taking it somewhere. what i want to know -- >> okay. >> if you're not going to let market forces determine where all these rates are, either short term or long-term. >> oh, okay. >> isn't it possible that there's something to the notion that the fed is, i don't know, there's dislocations that are building in places from them manipulating rates to keep them at a certain point? we think central bankers are allowed to set these rates. of course they are. they're central bankers. private bankers can't. isn't the real problem that you're not letting the market dictate where it is and sooner or later that can come home to roost even if it is a central banker? >> that's the whole story, right? let's go take a look at it. >> see. >> it's ugly, nasty. >> okay. >> it's totally different. >> melissa -- >> here's the thing. >> why? >> kevin, you have your say here. >> they have to be a reflection of reality. >> they're not. >> instead -- they're not. it's lake woebegone. >> because the interest rates in the absence of the fed. >> old reality that you deal with. >> why don't we start drinking until at least 8:30. >> told you that from the night before. >> i wasn't drinking last night. >> from the night before that maybe. >> let's go through the intellectual. >> we got to go. we're done. >> thanks, kevin. no, hold on. >> kevin -- >> i want to -- >> let me ask this question, kevin. where would we be if the fed did not set rates at zero, what would be the price of money in the market today? >> well, it would be a little bit higher than it is. >> how much higher? give me a number. >> 6 percent. >> i don't know. >> but you're saying you know. >> i don't know. it's somewhere between 47 that they're suing and 400 more than that that's offered. i mean the fact is, it settles to the offer side. this is the only point that i can make. >> it's off by 30 or 40 basis points. that the fed is somehow depressing -- >> that's beside the point. maybe the libor scandal is related to 30 or -- what's the big deal? but they bust these guys, right? >> the one thing i do disagree with you, kevin, i don't think it's a huge story. i think it's -- the libor price fixing scandal. oh, my guys. glaze my eyes over. >> well, i'll take the other side of that bet. i will say this. the people manipulating the rate now are the central banks. >> thank you, kevin. he's the smartest guys about money markets. he agrees with me. and about the -- he also was excited about the higs bozon. >> i didn't read that yet. they think the -- >> i saw prometheus. they talk about the god particle there. >> thanks, kevin. why is robert in so early? >> the world is like -- >> upside down. >> messed up. >> we needed a million dollar and a couple of future draft picks and we didn't get them in this trade. >> the economy under spotlight. marry harris chief u.s. economist will get us ready for the post holiday fireworks from the labor department and american made, hence why we're playing this music. from the farmers market to the mall. how auntie anne's pretzels made it big time. we look at this week's winners and losers. building pass, corporate card, verizon 4g lte phone. the global ready one ? yeah, but you won't need... ♪ hajimemashite. hajimemashite. hajimemashite. you guys like football ? thank you so much. i'm stoked. you stoked ? totally. ... and he says, "under the mattress." souse le matelas. 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[yawning] homeowner's discount... safe driver discount... unicorn discount. unicorn wearing a sombrero. olé... countless discounts -- now, that's progressive. call or click today. good morning. welcome back to "squawk box" here on cnbc. i'm joe kernen with michelle caruso ka brer owe. >> i thought you were talking about the hanes bottom. >> an article. getting closer and closer. key to the universe. in the headlines this morning. unimportant when you've almost found the key to the universe. barclays chief executive officer, bob diamond has stepped down. that follows the libor manipulation probe that saw the bake fined more than $450 million. reports now say that chief operating officer jerry del messier, i don't know. >> nice. good job. >> may step down as well. yesterday it was chairman marcus agius who announced his departure and -- >> he's back today. >> going to lead the search for a new ceo. we'll see whether -- i said bob diamond is a talented executive. we'll see whether this is the end of his career or whether he ends up somewhere else. it might be better at an american bank, i think. it's hard to be an american in paris. an american in london. a lot of resentment. apple has won -- why wouldn't there be? >> apple won another legal battle. >> the tea. >> teeth. >> i was thinking the revolutionary war. >> the uk had the biggest navy in the world. they have one little dingy. when you have just a little -- >> they had by the way the world's currency by i -- >> in the 19th century, they had a debt to gdp ratio in excess of 3%. >> this is a quick fall from the very top to the -- >> still ainngry about that. >> it's two parts. you think all of the sort of british resentment towards america is taken out and american executive works for a british company. it's an interesting thee theory, joe. talk about it in -- >> apple won a legal battle versus samsung. a judge refused a request by samsung to lift a ban of the galaxy tab. that comes ahead of a patent trial between the two set for july 30th. >> we don't call it a tablet now, it's just a tab. >> it's just a tab. which used to be a drink. >> samsung is suing apple? >> yes. >> don't get too bogged down on this. i have more. >> the u.s. automaker -- >> we're going to comment on every read. >> u.s. automakers are set to release june sales figures this morning. analysts are looking for nearly 21% increase from a year ago to an annual rate of just under 14 million vehicles. >> that's still too low. >> why is it still too low? >> because there's a lot of -- >> on the road. >> lot of clunkers on the road. >> at our peak we were at 17 million. >> right. >> we're not getting back to that for a long time, right? you're not hoping for that? >> probably not. >> i think the business -- >> 14 looks good considering -- >> i think the industry is geared to make money at 13 or 14. >> absolutely. >> after the bankruptcies. let's check on the markets this morning. the equity futures are suggesting a slightly lower open. the nasdaq by 3. you can see the declines are not big. let's show you oil. which has been interesting to watch. 1.50 for wti. back over $85.25 per barrel. in terms of tresh rirs, the price lower, the yield is higher. 1.59%. even with the rise in yield, not at 1.6%. the euro 125.83. the price of gold this morning is higher by $12.16. 1600 bucks. >> we're going to have mark grant later all about all things. let's get a preview of the u.s. economy may perform in the second half of the yearment joining us from new york is maury harris. the chief u.s. economist in investment research. good morning. >> good morning. >> let's talk about your health care report which is getting some -- i think we're talking approximate it. you said in your report that you believe that after the supreme court affirmed the health care mandate that this is going to be a negative for the economy. why is that, maury? >> well, we said not so much of the big negative for the economy. we talk about how down the road, down the road the evidence from massachusetts where romney had the health care mandate where employers had to buy health insurance back in 2006, that there was evidence that after that mandate in 2006, that job growth in small businesses underperformed job growth in small businesses in the rest of the country. what we said is that in 2014, when the mandate becomes operative, that could be a negative on jobs. >> you also talked about what would be the tax take away as a result of this. $25 billion put on those who make, what, more than $250,000? >> right. and in terms of worrying about what the health care law means for the economy, you know, first things first. the employer mandate doesn't start until 2014. but the medicare extra medicare tax, higher income people starts in 2013. that's about $25 billion. we think it's only going to hit about 3% of the population. people who are generally safe and that it's probably going to take as much out of savings as it does out of consumption, so we didn't see it having a big impact on consumer spending next year. >> your bigger concern, though, was the $25 billion from the health care would be added to the $25 billion bill from the repeal of the bush tax cuts. that you thought, those two together could be a meaningful dent to the economy. >> yes. even if the wealthy have what we call a marginal propensity to save or 50%, if you had a $50 billion tax, that starts to take $25 billion out of consumption and that's when it starts to count on a forecast. >> maury, let's talk about the ism number. the construction numbers were good but ism well below expected. how worried are you now about the economy? >> i'm not too worried because in the ism surveys, the employment component still held up decently. now, i think what's important and it gets to friday, we've got private payrolls up $100,000 for the month of june, overall up over 85. if i were to see anything weaker than that, i would be more concerned. >> which way is the unemployment rate go both this month and the next several months? >> this month, i think it's flat. the next couple of months, i think it's going to gradually come down again. part of what's happening is that you have people who have exhausted their unemployment comp and that means it's going to be somewhat easier to fill some of the jobs that aren't being filled right now. so the drop in the unemployment rate has more to do with the functioning of the labor market in the clearing of the labor market than it does with the total demand for labor. >> all right. maury, thanks very much for your help this morning. thanks for coming in. >> do you have any comments or questions about anything you see here on squawk, e-mail us at squawk@cnbc.com. still ahead, pretzel success. find out how auntie anne's made it big at the mall. 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[ all ] i'm with scottrade. and so too is the summer event. now get an incredible offer on the powerful, efficient c250 sport sedan with an agility control sport-tuned suspension. but hurry before this opportunity...disappears. ♪ the mercedes-benz summer event ends july 31st. ♪ by what's getting done. measure commitment the twenty billion dollars bp committed has helped fund economic and environmental recovery. long-term, bp's made a five hundred million dollar commitment to support scientists studying the environment. and the gulf is open for business - the beaches are beautiful, the seafood is delicious. last year, many areas even reported record tourism seasons. the progress continues... but that doesn't mean our job is done. we're still committed to seeing this through. a company in pennsylvania flourished into one of america's greatest pretzel brands. bill dunn, president and see on of auntie anne's joins us with more on this american made story. good morning. >> good morning. how are you? >> good. we've got your pretzels in the office. we're excited about it. tell us about how you're seeing the economy through the pretzel business as joe gets up and going over for pretzels right now for breakfast. >> the economy certainly has been a challenge over the last few years. but we've been very fortunate in that 22 of the 24 years that we've been in existence, we've had same store sales positive growth. we've been very fortunate focusing on great customer service and excellent pretzels all the time for the guest that is come to our counters. >> kernen and reese man will going crazy. >> terrible. >> tell us about your growth plans. are you able to grow in this economy? >> we are. we're actually full steam ahead on the growth standpoint. we average opening more than two stores a week around the world. so this year we'll open well over 100 stores. our growth plans are -- we've been very fortunate once again. during this economy, we're growing. >> what is extraordinary about your company is that it was founded -- the founders were counselors, right? they ran a community counseling program and they needed to pay for it. so they started a pretzel business. have i got that narrative correct? >> that's correct. ann and jonah's are co-founders. started it in 1988 here in pennsylvania. their goal was to start a business where they could generate revenue to where they could provide free family counseling services in their local community and the recipe that they started back in 1988 is the same recipe that we use today in our over 1200 stores around the world. >> wow. that's amazing. tell us now, we've been talking a lot and i think the retail sector, i think of you in terms of the retail sector, particularly affected by health care reform. is that going to impact your ability to hire or the cost of your employees? >> well, you know, right now there's a little bit of uncertainty exactly on what that's going to mean. we feel our employees need health care and at least make it available to anyone. >> do your part-time employees have it? >> i'm sorry? >> do your part-time employees already have it? >> some do and some don't. we work strategically with a company that helps provide the service to our franchise partners around the country. so we'll continue to work on that. our preference certainly would be for us to work with our franchise partners on the health insurance side and not have the government do that. >> why is that? >> well, we just feel as though we know our business, we know the employees and we work closely with our franchise partners. and you know, it's the decision that i think needs to be left with us and our franchise partne partners and businesses that work to provide health insurance for employees. >> mr. dunn, congratulations on this great american success story. thanks so much for feeding steve and joe breakfast this morning. somehow it guys? >> when i'm taking the shuttle back to new york -- >> there's food in your mouth. there's food in your mouth. >> he loves it. he loves it. >> take the shuttle back to new york, it is the food that i eat because it's the only time i have. you grab the hot dog and the bagel or the pretzel. >> ronald reagan, right? >> the delta shuttle at -- >> he has a bagel, one of these things with a hot dog in itnd then jalapenos lining the top. i almost grabbed that one but i didn't. >> coming up a big happy birthday to america. what a great little memorial in the wall street journal about july 4th and about 1776. you know, we had the highest per capita income, the biggest middle class and the lowest taxes in the world in 1776. >> coincidence? >> no. >> anyway, that means -- >> members of the british empire. >> not for long my friend. >> we were then. maybe we should go back. >> we want it to stay that way. >> you know what, you might not know being a russ ki. >> lots of them around the country. we'll find out what it takes to light up the sky on the fourth of july and more fireworks with the donald at 7:30 eastern. we'll be right back. what makes the sleep number store different? you walk into a conventional mattress store, it's really not about you. they say, "well, if you wanted a firm bed you can lie on one of those. we provide the exact individualization that your body needs. wow, that feels really good! once you experience it, there's no going back. and don't miss our special financing now through july 4th only. plus enjoy the lowest prices of the season on selected bed sets only at the sleep number store, where queen mattresses start at just $699. this is new york state. we built the first railway, the first trade route to the west, the greatest empires. then, some said, we lost our edge. well today, there's a new new york state. one that's working to attract businesses and create jobs. a place where innovation meets determination... and businesses lead the world. the new new york works for business. find out how it can work for yours at thenewny.com. ♪ ♪ taylor. >> taylor swift? love her. macy's said to light the skies over the hudson river tomorrow. the owner gary souza, great time of year except for members of my family, my three dogs, couple of things went off yesterday and it's crazy what happens. you got to explain that to me sometime what happens to the poor animals, i against it's their ears but what have you got planned for tomorrow? >> tomorrow will be one spectacular event for the macy's fourth of july fireworks. hopefully your dogs will look out the window -- >> they're under the couch. >> they'll have to catch the rerun. it's a great show and we're looking forward to putting on the great spectacle, great music and fireworks and another great event. >> it's so great because with the music, if you're there, tv, i'm not sure, maybe it's a little better on high def big screen but to be there and hear the music, it's july 4th, it's patriotic, it's really a feeling you don't get any other time of the year i don't think. >> no, it really is, and this is the one holiday that all of america celebrates and everybody's out to celebrate their freedom, whether they're in america or around the world, and you're american, abroad, and i this i that's one of the more important parts for me, we touch all of those lives and people have an opportunity to experience this, whether it's on television or live but like you say, being there live is the opportunity. >> unbelievable. >> what are you holding up there? is this one of the new fangled ones you're doing this year, is it special? >> this is a special shell. this year as in every year with macy's we try to find something new and exciting. this is an ignition reignition. half the shell will light up and then it comes over to the other side, this one disappears and comes back to the other side so it provides a duration and that's what we're trying to do is offer more duration in the fireworks, more brightness hanging in the sky longer and the great cascades we're famous more to produce these colorful cascades not only in gold but silver, red, green and lasting and lingering across the river for just a long duration. >> you and the bond market looking for duration. gev us context on duration, 20 years ago the duration average was what, and what is it now? has it gotten longer and longer? >> absolutely. well most of the fireworks years ago when we first started doing this show with macy's in 1983 our fireworks would blast, last a second, second and a half. >> like you, steve. >> we have fireworks lasting up to 17 seconds. >> that's like you, joe. >> that's like you, steve, a second and a half. >> 17 seconds. >> gary, how much -- how much does macy's spend, how much does this cost macy's? >> this is really something that's a gift to the city of new york and to america so it's never something that we could discuss to be really fair. >> i knew. macy's didn't come up with the thanksgiving day parade but you got a lock on thanksgiving, all macy's and lock on july 4th all macy's. >> and they have a 40% interest in christmas. >> yeah, yeah, yeah. you got "miracle on 42nd" and all that. >> are municipalities cutting back on fireworks around the country because of budget cuts? >> no doubt. >> we've seen we're going to do 403 shows on the fourth of july alone, pyro spectacular. while some cities have cut back we see it get picked up in a surrounding town. what we've really noticed is that america wants to celebrate the fourth of july. >> some reason we have to go again gary. we can't laugh. >> you were great, gary. we loved it. >> that you were, gary, you were a good sport. >> thank you. >> that was pretty funny. coming up a boeing breakdown, what is the dow component telling investors about the future? plus more reaction to the resignation of barclays' bob diamond and governor chris matthews, we get his thoughts on health care and the state of the economy. "squawk box" will be right back. ♪ ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] what's the point of an epa estimated 42 miles per gallon if the miles aren't interesting? the lexus ct hybrid. this is the pursuit of perfecti [ male announcer ] introducing a powerful weapon in your fight against bugs. ortho home defense max. with a new continuous spray wand. and a fast acting formula. so you can kill bugs inside, and keep bugs out. guaranteed. ortho home defense max. at a hertz expressrent kiosk, you can rent a car without a reservation... and without a line. now that's a fast car. it's just another way you'll be traveling at the speed of hertz. under pressure at barclays. under pressure at barclays. ceo bob diamond steps down after mounting tension over the rate-setting scandal. we've got the latest details on the executive suite upheaval. ♪ i'm a maniac, maniac on the floor ♪ how long could the good times continue? former shell boss john hoffmeister checks in on how low gas prices could go. shouting it out loud with the on it alleged. ♪ shout it, shout it, shout it out loud ♪ >> from politics, jobs and business, trump is here and ready to go as the second hour of "squawk box" begins right now. ♪ good morning, welcome to "squawk box" on cnbc. i'm michelle caruso-cabrera along with joe kernen and steve liesman. andrew and becky are off this week. the futures are suggesting a slightly lower open on this shortened trading session. the dow would open lower by 31 points, the s&p 2.5 and the nasdaq by 2.75 points. joe has the big story of the morning. >> yep, kind of shocking i think because as of yesterday didn't look like it was going to happen but the breaking news is that barclays' ceo bob diamond quit, becoming the highest profile victim so far in the investigation of a dozen major banks across the world. outgoing chairman marcus agius will lead the search for a new chief executive. as of yesterday it looked like he was going to stay or at least try to stay but his tenure at barclays has been marked by a lot of -- >> tension. >> -- criticism, tension especially as an american in london and one thing that we do have tablets here, but we don't take them quite as seriously as they do in london, do they? they can actually influence policy, i think, at times over there. >> yeah, right. >> and over here it's just, you kind of say oh that's just "the post." over there, it's not really like that. >> what's startling if you read today's paper it says they're considering ascension plans and they say jerry delmisier, long time cohead of the investment bank could be ascending to the position and suddenly it looks like he's on the chopping block as well so heads are rolling extremely fast here in a way that was unexpected. >> i brought this up yesterday and bring it up again today, there's been talk that the bankers told the regulators what they were doing. >> this is a great part of the story. they told the bank of england what they were doing supposedly. >> right, and you could imagine a scenario where, because the libor rate you offer is a sign of your health, right, that a regulator would say you should offer a lower one or to show that you're healthier, where a regulator would sign on. i don't know the extent of the collaboration or the knowledge that was out there but there was some talk that the barclays guys were informing the regulators. >> if it's too high it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy and maybe your bank starts to -- >> we've been bringing in martin wolf a lot lately. you read his quote "banks as presently managed cannot be trusted to perform any publicly important function against the perceived interests of their staff." so over there, they're very, you know -- they think this is -- >> they do think this is a big deal over there, right? >> huge, huge, huge. >> let me ask you how different the opinion of banks is over here, though, joe. >> i think it's getting there at this point. >> do you think it's getting better or worse? >> you think the op. ed writer for the "wall street journal" would write that sentence? >> i'm not sure the op. ed writer for the "wall street journal" is indicative for the feeling for the banks. >> the fte you would be equivalent in terms of understanding the role the bank plays. >> they're not as conservative, i don't think so. i don't think so. i think that what's happened in america, somebody described this to me several years ago. the entire financial system is essentially in receivership to the government and if you look at the opinions of the public about the banking system, it's i think similar to what martin wolf wrote there. i don't think it's that different. >> i wonder if it goes up to the fsa and who knew what, when, et cetera. all for something a libor price fixing scandal, come on. >> something you brought up yesterday, sticks today there's no legs in the story. >> where is the victim? >> no outrage. we can't establish if they made interest rates be higher or lower, ginsler couldn't say anything, sometimes it was higher and sometimes lower, they were manipulating the rate but -- >> we still think, i don't disagree with you as much as santelli did but whether that's an accurate portrayal, i think the government probably had a lot more to do with putting the bampgz banks in the position they finally found themselves in. also you know how jamie dimon had to listen to merckley from oregon tell him he needed t.a.r.p. he says look i begged not to take it but finally took it -- >> that's another situation. >> then you would have gone down with the rest of the system. >> both sides mistake that. the concept at the time was i think a sound concept. you fund weak banks and strong banks, inject a lot of money into the system and you do not allow the market at that moment to distinguish between weak and strong. >> there are still people who wanted a huge flushing sound at that moment. >> let everything collapse and fall down and think we'd be better off. >> we will never know obviously. it's been pretty bad even saving it in terms of we're still at 8.2% two years later. >> but that cuts both ways, doesn't it joe? we're not at 18.2%. >> not in this country. we got to go. >> look at what spain is doing. >> a lot of other reasons why they're there. >> this conversation will go on not just for the next two hours but for the next 20 years. in other headlines -- >> we'll call each other as old men. microsoft taking a $6.2 billion non-cash charge, it bought aquantive paying $6.3 billion, microsoft hoped the purchase would counter google's buyout of double click. >> you just read through that, 6.3 billion, gone. >> it is just cash. a judge is allowing eastman kodak to sell off its digital imaging patents as part of the bankruptcy reconstruction. two companies had sought to block the sale saying they had ownership of some of those patents. general motors and facebook may be mending fences "the journal" says the two are in talks to return gm adz to facebook. back in may the company said it would stop advertising on the site, came before facebook's ipo. boeing upping its 20-year forecast, details will be discussed on a conference call at 11:00 a.m. eastern time. joining us is cnbc's phil lebeau. >> this is a slightly more robust forecast for the next 20 years compared to a year ago. here is what boeing is expecting. this is for the global market, not just for boeing but for all of the commercial airplane market, 34,000 xlericommercial increase of 500 and the value increased from $4 trillion to $4.5 trillion in industry sales. annual airline traffic is expected to grow at 5%. where is that growth coming from, no surprise here, look to asia, look to the developing markets and that's where boeing is going to see strong demand, they're particularly in the narrow body market, those are the short, medium haul planes, single aisle planes. as for the wider body market, the ones that the 787 is going to be a key player in, that's also expected to grow and remember those are the more valuable planes and that's why the 787 dreamliner is so important for a boeing, it is seeing increased demand also for the fuel-efficient planes, remember the 787 is going to be about 15% to 20% more fuel efficient than the current planes, expect what we're going to see with the 787 to continue over the next 20 years. what does this mean for investors? take a look at shares of boeing over the last three years it's had a nice move. if you invested in boeing three years ago you're pleased with what you've seen but compare boeing in eads, the parent of airbus, over the last year, generally they trade in tandem, guys but six months ago we saw a noticeable split between the two and it continues today with eads up about 22% over the last year compared to boeing which is what, up fractionally. that's the forecast over the next 20 years, conference call coming later today. >> the jetson flying car not in the 20-year forecast yet? >> no but it's coming. >> we want to talk about autos, just coming in below 14 million. what's the number the automakers need to be profitable? >> they're profitable. >> at this level. >> they're profitable at a sales rate of 10.5 million, where they stripped themselves down to. the problem is now for the automakers, europe. europe is dragging everybody down with much weaker than expected sales. >> uh-huh. >> here in the u.s. we're profitable in terms of what we're seeing from the automakers the question now is if we see sales coming in well below 14 million you'll see a lot of people on wall street take down their full year sales forecast because 13.5 million makes people say now we're seeing weakness we weren't expecting. >> we'll have phil back at 8:00 and talk to him more about autos and including the story fiat is importing cars from italy to the united states. >> as expected. >> cute little ones? >> i think they're selling, i guess. >> yes. >> after that super bowl ad, i mean how could they -- >> i thought it was the most ridiculous ad i'd ever seen. >> you know you loved it. >> that woman getting out of that car made no sense to me. >> let's check on the markets, ben liechtenstein is at the cme group this morning. equity market closed at 1:00. what happens on the shortened trading day? >> abbreviated session, less volume and less norg associated with the trade. the s&ps are at a critical level. i don't think we'll necessarily see any rejection or any follow-through from the upside activity that we've been seeing today necessarily, or today will be any major bearing on follow-through or conviction over the next couple of days. as we look at friday's unemployment data, traders are looking at this level, it will trade up above this level, could see some energy and we'd be opening up the doors to another test of the 1400 level. i'm really starting to take -- >> how are you thinking about the employment report on friday? >> well what i'm starting to notice is that we've been watching a decline coming from the numbers and disappointing number last month at 69,000, traders looking for 100,000 plus, we need to see the number come back up otherwise we're starting to establish a trend to the downside which is not a good thing. but one thing i want to just point out before i go is the sleeper bit of correlation i'm starting to notice, and this is a bit of a surprise possibly to some but between the yen and the s&ps or the s&p's russell, dow and nasdaq, i look at them as the foursome. the yen has come off some key lower levels back in march, we were up around 1400, and the s&p coming around 119, there was a lot of talk of intervention then, major rejection from the lower levels in the yen and major rejection from the upper levels in the s&ps. now yen trading 125 as we're in the mid 1350 level, basically the two charts are a mirror image, something that you're more used to seeing in terms of the dollar activity but the dollar's basically been sideways around below 83 even but it's really it seems to be a lot of money is going over into the yen versus the s&ps or the stocks if you will. >> thanks for highlighting that ben. appreciate it, happy holidays. see you later. >> you, too, thank you. >> michelle i want to point out an interesting letter, how much better would microsoft shareholders have been if microsoft had given that money back to shareholders? >> there's a lot of shares outstanding. it's not that much money. >> but 6.3 billion. >> 6 billion here and there, it starts to add up, doesn't it? >> better than investing themselves. >> maybe it was worth a shot, bing! >> bing is just, i try -- >> i try to get it off my, it's on my thing here and i don't even -- when i search, i don't know what it is that comes up. >> maybe the i.t. department can ific that for you. >> they can? >> yes. coming up next an outlook on gasoline prices from expert john hoffmeister. 7:45 eastern time an interview you cannot afford to miss, new jersey governor chris matthews talks budget, politics and the state of the nation's economy. ♪ [ male announcer ] this is our beach. ♪ this is our pool. ♪ our fireworks. ♪ and our slip and slide. you have your idea of summer fun, and we have ours. now during the summer event get an exceptionally engineered mercedes-benz for an exceptional price. but hurry, this offer ends july 31st. gas gas prices have dipped below $3 in some areas. will the trend continue? joining us john hoffmeister, founder and ceo of citizens for affordable energy. good morning john. >> good morning, steve. >> where are we headed down below $3 in some places, about $3.50 in the new york m metropolitan area. what is your forecast? >> it depends how strong the economy is. i'm not optimistic the economy is showing signs of strength. it seems to be holding but holding with a tendency koord we toward weakness. i think oil prices will continue at this state, maybe a little bit lower. lot depends on what the saudis do. the saudis have been working very hard to prevent a price collapse by seeing too high a crude price against a weak world economy. the question is how low can they stand it before they have to cut back their production and that's kind of the fine line that i think is, depends upon saudi production. u.s. production will continue i think to grow slightly, but don't forget the gulf of mexico is really still suffering the effects of the moratorium, so there's not a gusher of oil out there that's coming on the market in the u.s., because of the offsets in the gulf of mexico. so it's really, you know, we'll see the jobs report. i think, as i travel the country i think it's weaker than a lot of people would like to see. i talked to a lot of bankers. they're not making a lot of loans, and they're worried about the credit worthiness of some of the loans they're making. it's not a strong economy. >> if it's around 85 now, which by the way it just went up in the last day or two, where do you see the oil price headed? >> well, i think it's going to probably get into the high 70s is my view, and sit there for a while and let's see how the election plays out. i think if the current administration stays in office, i don't think that's good for the oil business. i don't think that's good for the energy economy more broadly. we've seen very poor leadership over the last number of years. the romney team is working very hard on what an energy plan would look like and let's be clear, the nation has no energy plan, and now that the price has softened a bit, there's nothing coming out of the current congress, nothing coming out of the white house on how we fix energy going forward, so if and when the economy recovers, guess what? prices are going right back up again because there is simply lack of leadership on the public policy front which is why i've been pounding tables all over this country talking to people. >> give us current examples, john, what a romney administration would be doing that would be different from the obama administration. >> first of all they have i think you're going to have harold hamm on later and i think he is giving some sound advice to the romney team. i think you would look at a much wider open drilling program. what we've just seen in the five-year plan from the department of the interior is nothing new. >> john, i want to cut you off on that because i was talk to an oil friend of mine and he explained to me the reason why the oil companies are complaining about the lack of federal lands opened is because the take of the state in the federal lands is about half of what it is at the state level, and the complaint really is, they just want these federal lands open because they make more money on federal lands versus state lands. >> yes. >> is that not accurate? >> that's true. it is true. z>> shouldn't the federal government then raise the price of the public take then? >> they could. >> equalize it? would you support that? >> well i had -- you know, i've tried in the past to talk to presidential candidates about a grand bargain between the oil companies, the american people and the government, and the grand bargain could be open up more federal access, at a higher royalty rate, the american people get more oil, the oil companies get more money. >> economists call it the market clearing price, created so there's no line at the window. >> yes, and politicians have to come to grips with some decisions that might be unpopular because it would open up federal lands that a lot of people want to see shut down forever, but you just saw the boeing report. >> i like that bargain. >> 34,000 more airplanes in this world, they're going to need oil over the next 20 years, they're not going to fly on wind power. >> do you believe this new mexican candidate who claims he wants more private or some, any private investment in petrolus mexicanas? >> they've been turning the corner over the last three administrations. calderon, and i met with calderon early on, when he was first elected, he said he knows what the country needs, but it's politically not ready yet. that was what, six, seven years ago. >> um-hum. >> i think the new president has a better chance of turning the corner, because production continues to decline in mexico. they need their oil production to keep the state solvent and they need to technology -- >> we had a guy on yesterday who said if mexico got its act together between mexico and canada, the u.s. could be energy-independent of pent from the middle east? is that a pipe dream? >> absolutely i've been saying this for months, i absolutely agree. >> isn't hamm going to tell on telling us because of north dakota we could be energy-independent? >> i think north dakota has a big role to play, but it's not just north dakota. it's the arctic, the bow fort, the east coast offshore, it's the eastern gulf of mexico offshore. north dakota by itself, i don't think, is enough to take us as far as we would like to go. >> okay, john -- >> here's one of the problems with north dakota, the more you drill, the more you have to drill because the decline rate is so high in north dakota. >> john, just very quickly the purchase of carlile, the sunoco refinery in philadelphia. >> from the consumer standpoint it's good because it will keep supplies in the market but from a financial standpoint, if they have to continue to pay brent prices and sell in a market that's dominated by west texas i'm not sure how they make money and make the capital investments that those old facilities need. >> john thanks for joining us this morning. >> thank you. coming up on "squawk box," billionaire investor and entrepreneur donald trump on jobs, politics, john roberts, the economy. and then new jersey governor chris matthews joins us at 7:45 eastern. "squawk" will be right back. . the top academic performers surprised some people. so did the country that came in 17th place. let's raise the bar and elevate our academic standards. let's do what's best for our students-by investing in our teachers. let's solve this. ♪ ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] what's the point of an epa estimated 42 miles per gallon if the miles aren't interesting? the lexus ct hybrid. this is the pursuit of perfection. we believe the more you know, the better you trade. so we have ongoing webinars and interactive learning, plus, in-branch seminars at over 500 locations, where our dedicated support teams help you know more so your money can do more. [ rodger ] at scottrade, seven dollar trades are just the start. our teams have the information you want when you need it. it's another reason more investors are saying... [ ] i'm with scottrade. in here, every powerful collaboration is backed by an equally powerful and secure cloud. that cloud is in the network, so it can deliver all the power of the network itself. bringing people together to develop the best ideas -- and providing the apps and computing power to make new ideas real. it's the cloud from at&t. with new ways to work together, business works better. ♪ zagat just gave hertz its top rating in 15 categories, including best overall car rental. so elevate your next car rental experience with the best. it's just another way you'll be traveling at the speed of hertz. it so so it happened during the commercial break, falling back a little bit but brent crossed $100 per barrel. there it is on the nose, 100 bucks a barrel on cue, higher by $2.66. john hofmeister talking about trades in london versus west texas intermediate wti on the top, $86 per barrel, really big spread, happening for the last year or so. it's not typical. we have a glut of wti comparatively, spread of $14, which is why he was talking about the struggle with the refinery. we'll have harold hamm on talking about the energy sector, brent at london trading at 100 bucks a barrel and west texas intermediate is at 86. comments, questions about anything you see here e-mail us at squawk@cnbc.com and follow us on twitter @squawkcnbc is the handle. coming up, business and politics collide always. donald trump joins us on the "squawk" u.s. in line to discuss issues affecting your money. and new jersey governor chris matthews on state budgets, taxes and the road to the white house, two great americans, the day before fourth of july, joining us here on "squawk box." we'll be right back. on thursday meet the on thursday meet the ceo of saltwater taffy company shriver's. follow "squawk" on twitter and send us your business success stories, use #americanmade, god bless america and god bless "squawk box." of any small business credit card. your boa! 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[ cheers and applause ] what's in your wallet? high schools in six states enrolled in the national math and science initiative... ...which helped students and teachers get better results in ap courses. together, they raised ap test scores 138%. just imagine our potential... ...if the other states joined them. let's raise our scores. let's invest in our teachers and inspire our students. let's solve this. i don't have to use gas. i am probably going to the gas station about once a month. drive around town all the time doing errands and never ever have to fill up gas in the city. i very rarely put gas in my chevy volt. last time i was at a gas station was about...i would say... two months ago. the last time i went to the gas station must have been about three months ago. i go to the gas station such a small amount that i forget how to put gas in my car. ♪ welcome back welcome back to "squawk box." in the headlines, boreclays chief executive officer bob diamond resigned, after the bank was assessed $450 million by u.s. and uk regulators. u.s. automakers set to release sales figures, analysts expect a 21% increase to an annual rate of just under 19 million units. it's aa short day for wall street ahead of the july 4th holiday. today the closing bell will ring at 1:00 p.m. eastern time, three hours earlier than usual and the bond market will close early but joe they always do. >> yes, they do and the government meanwhile set to issue the june jobs report on friday as we get closer to the elections, each one becomes more important. joining us on the "squawk" u.s. in line is donald trump, chairman of the trump organization, and donald, i've been reading a lot of stuff and when you say things, everybody needs to respond in the blogosphere and when you say 1.3 million people now get, follow you on twitter so it gets out there but you got a lot to say about the obama care decision and chief justice roberts. i don't know if you saw the "wall street journal" today but bill mcgurn has an interesting piece. if you didn't see it i want to you check it out, just looking at what the whole rationale for this was and whether it really was about maintaining the integrity or the perceived integrity of the court for a president whose signature achievement was possibly going to be struck down. i don't think roberts wanted to do that in an election year which is not the right reason to do anything. >> i think it's a little bit different than that, joe. i think roberts was reading "the washington post" and the "new york times" and said i can come out like a hero if i do what everybody does not expect me to do and he voted you know to keep it and frankly, i think he should be ashamed of himself. he was going to go the other way 100%, everybody said, from inside that he was going the other way and all of a sudden he voted against it. i think what happened, and i was even saying it, i said somebody could look like a hero to a certain part of the establishment if they did exactly what he did, and that's what he chose to do. >> it depends on who you want to be a hero to. in the mcguern case "it's hard not to notice that the people extolling justice roberts for rescuing the court's integrity are the same ones who had been impugning it all along." >> i think we should be proud of a man named justice kennedy because he held in and held in strong and gave an unbelievable opinion which happened to be correct, by the way, and roberts gave a very political, washington establishment georgetown type opinion, and now they love him in washington, and that's probably what he wanted. i think that's the sole reason he did it. >> mcguern points out the dissent is so well written and looks like it was written and going to be a majority opinion the way the dissent was written and you can tell from that, maybe -- i don't know whether something got to him or whether because he was chief justice -- >> joe, the media got to him, the media got to him. he thought he could be a hero, let's do it and really do something here and frankly you're right, the dissent was not only well-written, it was correct. it was obviously correct. >> and the mandate was seen to be unconstitutional. they had to do backflips to come up with rewriting the statute. congress could not have gotten this through if they called it a tax. >> absolutely. >> so they were able to get it through and now it becomes a tax, but liesman, steve points out maybe justice roberts thought listen, if the people really are at 52% on approval elect the people that you need to, to overturn this. the supreme court shouldn't be the one deciding whether a law is good or not or whether it's fair or not, that the people need to weigh in if they want to preserve their, you know, whatever it is they're trying to preserve here. >> joe, i think john roberts should be ashamed of himself and interestingly, it's reverb rating the opposite. he's looking look a dummy because frankly his decision was written not by the supposedly smart man that he is. the decision makes no sense to anybody that reads it and really justice kennedy, you have to give him a lot. he was supposed to be the swing and he was so strongly -- i mean that opinion was so well documented, and it was correct. >> a lot of ways to look at this on who wins and who doesn't. i was thinking wow, it took 18 months and used a lot of capital and 2010 the democrats were routed in congress, pelosi lost her job as speaker. three and a half years later we're still talking about obama care and it's still unpopular. what was it all about with the horrible economy and 8%, but we're talking about obama care, not talking about 8% unemployment right now and that's good for obama. >> i actually think a little bit differently. first of all i think kennedy was the winner. he stuck to his principles, people realize it and actually roberts is not looking so good right now to almost everybody because the opinion made no sense. >> is he ruling on a golf course you're trying to build somewhere? >> joe you know who is the big winner? >> who? >> it's not bob diamond because that was a big, big loss yesterday, to me, a big, big decision when they let him go. >> i agree. he's a good economictivxecutive? >> yes. i was amazed to see that happen to him, because that is a big event, but forget that. the big winner is going to be mitt romney, because mitt romney, i have never seen the republicans coalesce like they have in the last three days since this ridiculous decision was made by the supreme court. >> that brings up this, donald, and that is what rupert said and i know you love rupert, too, and rupert, you know, in a tweet he says, if romney continues along with all the friends that he has that have been with him for a long time that don't seem to be able to stick their political finger up in the air that well, he's going to lose, and then later -- i don't think welch said the same thing but i think he expressed sort of something similar and then you had one of romney's guys, the etch-a-sketch guy talking about how it's not a tax, and sometimes it seems -- and we had a very partisan person, a democratic operative that i think is a traveling press secretary for the obama administration, she was on "kudlow" with me last night, that's the first thing she brought up, couldn't wait to talk about eric fernstrom saying it's not a tax. do you think romney he could improve on if he plays hardball? >> i've gotten to know many people over the last six months and they're very capable and competent. >> i hope so. >> i love rupert and i think he's not necessarily correct. i think they're very capable. i didn't quite get yesterday saying it's not a tax when actually your supreme court justice said it was a tax. >> yeah, you can't -- it doesn't -- if the mandate was ruled unconstitutional by all five of them, which it was, then it's got to be a tax or the law doesn't stand. >> we haven't heard from mitt himself on that, but let's see what happens, but i'm not sure that anybody understood why this gentleman said that but i will tell you this, his people are very, very capable. i've dealt with a lot of them and they're really capable. >> all right, now i don't know where you stand, but steve's here and i kid him. i'm really just kidding, steve, about -- >> because there's so much love underlying the joke. >> i kid him about hilda solis, from the labor department. she's got an old hewlett-packard calculator and starts at the number she wants, you know, like 7.9 would be good and works back from there with the assumptions -- >> she does it chinese style. >> i tell you my response, if the government is that good it could run a conspiracy that long and that deep, we should give more things to government because of their ability to execute a fabulous conspiracy. >> these numbers are good as as the darned chinese numbers, gdp numbers. you don't think there's assumptions? >> i think that's a disservice to the great americans who work at different parts -- >> all of the bureaucracy. >> you do have to say it has changed a lot over the years. the reporting requirements are so different now. you have people saying the real number is 14 and 15 and 16% by the way they used to account, and now the number is at 8.2, and you know if you give up looking for a job, they take you off the list, you're not counted and i think that's probably not appropriate. >> that's always been the case and by the way the government publishes an alternative measure, a government number that tells you what the total slack is in the labor force and that number is up near 16% and you and all of america is free to look at that number and believe what number they want to believe. >> donald you saw the factory numbers yesterday and the claims numbers. say this number is 90 -- >> it can go either way because of -- could we just take a step back? i don't want to take away from donald's time. >> donald the more light they shed on this, they can't do it. can't do it. >> steve you would admit it's not good. >> no, the whole process. >> coming in at 80,000 that's pathetic. >> see this is where i get in trouble, i'll give you more money to get better data because it gets better for the market? the idea that we're trading on data that is not as good as it could be if we have data systems to do this. >> compile people in a room to come up with the number like apparently they did in london. >> we could do that but it's important for efficient markets to have better data. i think we trade on a number that has a plus or minus level of 100,000 and that's a problem. donald, sorry, i did not want to take away your time. >> i think it's important for the markets to have great leadership and we don't have great leadership. that's the problem we have. >> i'm going to get in trouble again. >> go ahead. >> what bothers me here is that when a certain part of the republican party doesn't get the answer it wants, it tends to ex-communicate the person. >> and democrats don't do the same thing, come on. >> roberts is so on the outs. your beloved roberts who gave the corporate -- >> cory booker was dead to a white house staffer after -- >> i'm not saying the democrats doen don't do it. listen to the process by which you tend to undercut and undermine the person giving you the decision. what he did was he, it's within the authority of the government to do this but said you know what? you don't like this law, go ahead and change it. >> what roberts did was a big bleep deal. this is not going to go away. >> it's constitutional bleep, bleep. >> in the words of the vice president this was a big beep beep deal, and to say all of a sudden you put, someone goes on the reservation, roberts is going, to he said he might have to go -- >> he's done so much other stuff you guys were applauding. >> who is you guys? >> you guys. >> he stopped you from harvesting hanging chads in two democratic counties in florida and that was the wrong move after three months? >> i think to me the most interesting -- >> you can't just take one thing and say -- >> go ahead donald. >> joseph, i think to me the most interesting, you people in the media have to get to bush and find out how he feels about his appointment of justice roberts right now, because he doesn't speak, and i think really, there's something nice about the fact that he doesn't speak much about what's going on. but i really would like to hear what former president bush thinks about his appointment of justice roberts. >> it happened to his father, too, donald, suitor. >> and this was a big one and this was abuse and steve, this energized the republican party like never before, and i think this decision is going to really reverb rate. i think it's going to maybe elect mitt romney president. so let's see what happens. >> we're going to cut it here, donald, because we've got one of your, someone you admire -- >> chris matthews, he's great. >> we have our governor. >> he's my friend and he's a great guy and doing a great job in new jersey. >> okay, thanks, donald. >> have a good time. >> bye, donald. >> so long, bye, michelle. >> you're reading this, you're michelle. >> oh, yeah, right. >> we've established that, now we can move on. >> coming up new jersey governor chris matthews talks about the race for the white house, health care costs and budgets. "squawk box" is back in just two minutes. "squawk box" finishes the week with a bang. it's jobs friday, and "squawk box" has the number and market reaction covered. guest host former omb director jim nessel and mark zandi, diane swank and austan goolsbee share their predictions and market thoughts, friday here on "squawk box." u take it on your road trip... we take it on ours. this summer put your family in an exceptionally engineered mercedes-benz now for an exceptional price during the summer event. but hurry, this offer ends july 31st. in your fight against bugs. ortho home defense max. with a new continuous spray wand. and a fast acting formula. so you can kill bugs inside, and keep bugs out. guaranteed. ortho home defense max. did i ever think i would have heart disease. she just didn't fit the profile of a heart event victim. she's healthy, she eats properly. i was pushing my two kids in a stroller when i had my heart event. i've been on a bayer aspirin regimen ever since. 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[ male announcer ] learn how to protect your heart at i am proheart on facebook. yep. the longer you stay with us, the more you save. and when you switch from another company to us, we even reward you for the time you spent there. genius. yeah, genius. you guys must have your own loyalty program, right? well, we have something. show her, tom. huh? you should see november! oh, yeah? giving you more. now that's progressive. call or click today. and so too is the summer event. now get an incredible offer on the powerful c250 sport sedan. but hurry before this opportunity...disappears. the mercedes-benz summer event ends july 31st. there are there are the futures today, indicated down about 19 points on the session, after a huge gain early on friday, not much action yesterday and we'll see what happens throughout the session, but at least at the open we're looking at a little bit of downward pressure, not much. coming up next governor chris matthews -- >> that's michelle it says in the prompter. >> -- tax cuts, the state of our state in his state plus the nation's economy, much more, "squawk" is coming back in just two minutes. ♪ i'm consolidating my assets. i'm not paying hidden fees or high commissions. i'm making the most of my money. and seven-dollar trades are just the start. i'm with scottrade. i'm with scottrade. i'm with scottrade. and i'm loving every minute of it. [ rodger riney ] at scottrade, we give you commission-free etfs, no-fee iras and more. come see why more investors are saying... i'm with scottrade. in your car. now count the number of buttons on your tablet. isn't it time the automobile advanced? introducing cue in the all-new cadillac xts. the simplicity of a tablet has come to your car. ♪ the all-new cadillac xts has arrived. and it's bringing the future forward. focus lolo, focust sanya let's do this i am from baltimore south carolina... bloomington, california... austin, texas... we are all here to represent the country we love this is for everyone back home it's go time. across america, we're all committed to team usa. new new jersey's tough talkin' governor it says here delivered his third consecutive balanced budget without raising taxes. here now governor chris matthews of new jersey. governor, it's wonderful to see you. thanks for joining us. you don't have to talk tough if you don't want to. i'm not going to put any words in your mouth. we love when you speak your mind though. >> that's what i do, joe, and we had a good session, pretty good day yesterday and we're working on cutting taxes for you in new jersey. >> you know you're the governor of new jersey, and i happen to look up and saw you in studio on some other, i don't know what it was, i've never seen it, actually i've been on that show as well, it's great, too. were you in new york? you didn't travel there just to do -- you could come here, right? you will next time. >> i could and i will but this time i was doing some other things in new york, editorial boards this morning in new york as well. >> they're still claiming everything we have over here is theirs. >> but joe nobody believes it. >> no one really does at this point. >> no, no one believes it. the jets train in new jersey, they play in new jersey, the giants train in new jersey, they play in new jersey. so it's really -- >> i love when do you that. let me ask you this, just weigh in what you think about the roberts decision. we just had donald trump on, he always says great things about you, but he was slamming the chief justice. >> you're a lawyer. >> i can sort of make a case for what he was thinking if you go back and look at his writings before he has ascended to that appointment, and he said, talked about the humility of the court and being humble, and not doing things where you know the court would actually change something this big, he would rather have that done through the legislative process. do you give him any credit for maybe getting out of the way on something this major? >> they took it in the first place and so i don't know necessarily that a punt was the right thing to do here. i think it was a wrong decision and i think they should have ruled on the first klaus grounds and should have left it at that. i think it was the wrong decision. >> crazy to come down and say it. that's why so many news organizations, how are they not supposed to get it wrong when the first thing said that the commerce, that the mandate was unconstitutional. wait a minute, it wasn't called a tax in the statute that the congress and senate wrote but suddenly he gave them that language to make it okay. it was crazy. >> that's kind of in a bigger picture, joe, that's what drives people regular everyday people crazy about judges is that the statute's pretty plain as to what they intended to do here, that was to use the commerce clause to force people to buy insurance or other wewise penal them and all of a sudden they throw them a lifeline on something else which was kind of made up and that's the real concern you have about judges making things up from the bench to get to a certain result. i don't think judicial decisions should be a result in search of a rationale. they should be a rationale that leads to a result. >> you can't make this stuff up, everybody was worried about kennedy and there he was after roberts reportedly changed his mind he was leading the charge to try to get him to change it back. you can't even believe this, can you? >> no. the intrigue that goes on in the supreme court is pretty amazing. they think there's a lot of politics on capitol hill, spend a year up at the supreme court i'm sure it's just as hot and heavy. >> the jobless rate is still 8.2% yet gallup has a poll with the president widening his lead, i don't know if it includes the supreme court decision at this point but i've watched intrade for obama's re-election uptick from 53, back up to 56 or so. what do you make of that and what do you expect to see happen? >> i think he's getting a bump from the supreme court decision, but if you look at most of the polls this is a margin of error race on fourth of july between mitt romney and the president and if for any republican if i told them in january in the middle of the scrum between the iowa caucuses and the new hampshire primary with mitt romney getting beaten up by all those people on the stage, don't worry, on fourth of july it will be a dead heat race between the president and mitt romney, every republican would have signed up for that, so let's keep everything in perspective. this is a margin of error race, going to be a close election but i think governor romney is in really good position right now as the challenger to make the case over the next number of months that he can win. >> you never ran for office in chicago, did you? you know what politics is like in chicago. >> but i ran in new jersey, not very different. >> you did. you know, rupert murdoch saying that these guys are nice, some of the friends he's had for a long time, maybe they're not up to taking the gloves off and other people have echoed that. they say strange things saying it's not a tax is a little bit strange to go on the record, one of his surrogates over the weekend, that's kind of weird. are they up to it? >> yeah, they are. i know a lot of the folks who work for governor romney. one who works for governor romney worked for me in the 2009 race and did an outstanding job. i think they're very up to it. spokespeople get in and fill in space on the cable stations, no offense. i care about what the candidate says. governor romney has been very clear about what this election should be about, reinvigorating our economy, releasing the entrepreneurial spirit by simplifying our tax system, getting entitlement spending under control and by putting more money in the hands, in the pockets of the american people to help them grow this economy. those are the things this election is going to be decided on, not what a spokesperson says on a cable news station in july. >> governor christie it's michelle here. the decision when it comes to medicaid, the impact on new jersey how did you feel about that and how the court ruled on states rights versus the federal government? >> i like the decision on med i kay obviously because it was nothing less than extortion, if you get funded and decide you don't want to fund it at the same levels in the future, we take all your money back that the federal government had in a deal that they made with the states to pay 50/50 on medicaid so i think the decision was right on the medicaid portion and this is what i think should happen. the president should block grant this medicaid money to each state and let each state work its judgment. what works in new jersey is different than i suspect what would work in montana so let's stop pretending there will be a one size fits all for this problem. >> governor, you know, when you talk, i mean i still think you would be veep, i do. i love rob portman and i listen to him and rubio comes on, liesman is not a rubio guy, but christie, right? >> great state of new jersey. >> but you can't carry new jersey, unfortunately, probably -- i don't know, never say never, right? i shouldn't have said that. >> never say never now. >> i shouldn't have said that. >> is jersey in play? >> so close to new york it just seeps over here through the river. who do you think it should be? what do you think? >> geez, listen, this is an election with one voter, mitt romney and he gets to decide who he thinks would be the best vice president of the united states, the person best prepared to serve with him to turn our country around, and listen, i like the way governor romney makes decisions and i'm sure he'll make this one really well but i'm certainly not weighing in saying who i think it should be. >> is it going to be you? >> i doubt it. >> not categorically. >> listen, because i don't know whether governor romney -- i've said this all aening lo, i love being governor of new jersey. you can tell. i think every day the way i do my job that i love being governor but the fact is if governor romney picks up the phone and calls then you have to answer the call and listen at least. >> all right, governor, i can't tell you how much -- you know how much i appreciate you coming on. thank you. we appreciate it. glad to finally see you again. >> joe you're the best, man, and next time we'll come to jersey. >> bye, governor. >> steve? >> is that me? >> ye! coming up, he's america's oil man, harold hamm, chairman and ceo of continental resources and mitt romney's energy policy adviser. this is new york state. we built the first railway, the first trade route to the west, the greatest empires. then, some said, we lost our edge. well today, there's a new new york state. one that's working to attract businesses and create jobs. a place where innovation meets determination... and businesses lead the world. the new new york works for business. find out how it can work for yours at thenewny.com. introducing gold choice. the freedom you can only get from hertz to keep the car you reserved or simply choose another. and it's free. ya know, for whoever you are that day. it's just another way you'll be traveling at the speed of hertz. crisis in crisis in europe, political uncertainty in the u.s. and friday's jobs report. don't head to the beach just yet, we'll ask two strategists how to position your portfolio for the second half of the year. he's america's richest oil man and the primary energy adviser to the romney campaign. harold hamm will tell us why energy end expense no longer a pipe dream. strap in, time to hit the theme park. we'll find out if consumers found their way back to hershey park after the recession. the third hour of "squawk box" begins right now. ♪ i'm picking up good vibrations, she's giving me e excitations ♪ ♪ i'm picking up good vibrations ♪ welcome back. i'm happy to be here. >> you're supposed to be able to read stuff. >> you love it, you love it. >> three long hours every day. welcome back. >> it's something, i got to tell you. >> yesterday i did a fourth hour with "kudlow" at 7:00. >> were the ratings good? >> i don't know. >> they're not out yet. you're doing it all this week? >> no, that was the only one. i didn't want to just kill the ratings, sorry. "squawk box" is here on cnbc first in business worldwide i'm joe kernen along with michelle caruso-cabrera and steve liesman. andrew and becky are off this week. checking u.s. equity futures they've been down all morning, down about 20 points which on a percentage basis as we show you every time, is down about 1.1%. barclays ceo bob diamond resigns following the libor probe that saw the bank fined more than $450 million. chairman marcus agius who announced his departure yesterday will now stay on and lead the search for a new ceo. reports say it ain't going to be chief operating officer jerry delmessier. some thought he might ascend but apparently not. >> the calculus would be you would take rubio from a florida which you could win but wouldn't take christie because jersey is not in play, is that how you understood what the calculus would be? >> i know that people think that. people are also trying to figure out in polling in ohio whether senator portman would deliver ohio and they get a little bounce but rubio a bigger bounce. i think romney there's different polls and i was in florida last week and there are people down there that think romney is in a pretty good position in florida but there are other people who say the swing states are allby ma. >> the other thing i hear is forget the national polls that obama is doing -- >> you were here. >> i saw you campaigning. no, no. i didn't talk to people. i'm not politics. i was at a baseball tournament for my kid. >> right. >> which was kind of cool, espn. >> you didn't talk about politics but you blamed the weather on global warming and some of your games were rained out. >> i lived in florida for five years, they get tropical storms and they come and they get -- >> has something to do with it? >> tropical storm? >> all these record-breaking -- >> it was hot in florida. i got to read here. >> how funny, in the summer? >> in the summer, as a result of -- >> that was my point. >> exactly. >> every year it's like that. >> and the water levels are rising not because of the rain. major automakers reports sales this morning, cnbc's phil lebeau joins us from chicago. >> chrysler reporting an increase of 20%, remember that's year over year, now that's a smidge greater than the estimate, the estimate was for an increase of 19.2%, this is the beginning of what will be a very important day for all of the automakers as they report june numbers that have a lot of attention because when you take a look at the estimates out there, you look at this and you say wow, they're going to be up anywhere between 8 and some cases toyota 66%, but the real key here is compare that with may. remember the original estimate versus last year, may is really what people want to key in on and you're seeing that all of those are expected to be lower. the asian automakers and if there is a split this is where it's at. the asian auto brands in june are expecting slightly stronger or better performances because they have a better supply and they are being a little more aggressive when it comes to incentives but make no mistake, the real focus in terms of june auto sales will be the pace of sales overall. if it comes in at 13.9 million that's the estimate, most people say it's a little weak, we can live with that. if the pace is well below 14 million, look for wall street to come in quickly, maybe even later today or by thursday, and start cutting their full year forecast and this is what we're looking at, folks, the pace of sales, forget about that spike there, that's cash for clunkers but at the end on the far right see that trend as it's starting to dip a little bit lower that's the concern if it goes well below 14 million you'll see people bring their full year estimates down. don't forget as we look at shares of general motors this is one of the key numbers we're looking at, coming out at 10:00, talking with kurt mcneil the new vp of sales at general motors and one of the focus is this talk about incentives. all automakers kept a good lid in terms of incentives but last week i was talking with somebody seeing zero percent for 84-month loans. >> wow, back to the bad old days, right? >> yeah, that starts creeping in more and more, what worries people. >> i got to ask you about this fiat thing, it goes to show how terrible i am at reading cultural trends and stuff like that. >> right. >> i'm still playing songs from 30 years ago but i watched jennifer lopez, right, who got out of the fiat. i said nobody's going to believe that. this car and i've come from the days when fiat could not sell a car in america and when it did -- are they really doing well? did the marketing campaign work? did people buy it? >> it's coming around. i'd say initially they stumbled out of the gate here in the united states in part because they had huge expectations that were built out there, we're going to come in and we're going to change things and they really didn't have the dealer networks set up and haven't come around. it's starting to improve. in fact if you look at the sales of fiat in california which is the largest auto market in this country, much better than expected. >> uh-huh. >> they're hoping that that is duplicated around the country. >> that's the story as to why they don't have enough capacity in the united states and they have to import fiat's from italy? >> no, not the capacity. they're built into luca, mexico. the issue is your dealer network. they're just starting up. it's hard to find a fiat dealer. you have to go to a fiat dealer and that network is just beginning. >> interesting. did you buy it when you saw jennifer lopez? >> oh yeah. >> that is the biggest clash of ideas. >> you were thinking of the time when people said "fix it again tony" for example. >> right. >> i got in trouble for that so now i say "fix it again trevor." >> phil, there's a big controversy, she's supposed to be in the bronx. >> right. >> it was a fake person driving around in the bronx, it wasn't her and she filmed it out in l.a. >> imagine that, a green screen in this day and age! >> i knew that. >> phil thank you very much. you'll have stuff all day long. >> all day long. >> data coming out with the different automakers. >> watch the sales pace, that's the key. >> fiats are going to sell here, phil? >> they're selling in california, that's a good barometer, better than expected. >> crazy. >> they may be crazy liberals on the west coast but they're selling. >> it's not liberal or conservative -- >> just crazy. >> they're buying what used to be lemons. >> it's not the case anymore, not fair to call the new fiat a lemon. >> i would tell you, phil, when we had a dodge in the '70s, no member of my family bought a dodge after that car for 30 years. i was the first guy, i bought a jeep, which wasn't really even a dodge but after that, it echoes over decades when a car isn't right. >> absolutely. >> you're not buying a fiat either. you can't fit your big toe in a fiat. >> are you talking to me, joe? >> it could have been me, phil, it could have been me. >> you're very tall, you're not going to fit in a tee yat. >> you're tall with a dainty big toe. >> thank you, joe. >> you're welcome. >> bye, phil. crisis in europe, if you haven't heard, weakness in employment numbers, political uncertainty in the u.s., how should you position your portfolio for the second half of the year, joining us is philip silverman, managing partner and port polio manager at kings view management and with us mark grant managing director of southwest securities and writes daily commentary on the financial markets. good morning, gentlemen, how are you? >> very well. >> good morning, good to see you all. >> hey, mark, what did you think of the big rally we saw on friday as a result of the eu summit? is that going to last? is that a bunch of hot air? what do you think? >> yeah, michelle, i think it's a lot of hot air. it was the first reaction to the headlines that europe had actually done something, but what they've done was really nothing. as a matter of fact, the new supervisor of banks won't even be in position until the end of the year, by the best case scenario, dsm can't lend money to the banks until the supervisor's there and frankly i don't think it's going to happen. i think it was a lot of stuff. >> philip, what are you thinking here? i imagine it's much more about the u.s. economy at this point with the employment report on friday, no? >> yeah, the unemployment report is important. all of the numbers are suggesting growth is slow are. we had a bad ism yesterday, we've had bad pmi, employment is not good. you're getting these sharp, volatile rallies which are in the context of a market that's going to be continuing down for some time. >> so you think you're sure on that? >> i mean, obviously as sure as i can be. >> right. >> but growth is slowing. we're seeing it all across the globe. europeans are delaying the inevitable solution but right now they're not there. they're taking their time and it's not helping us. >> mark, i want to expand on your thoughts what the market perceives was accomplished last friday and what you believe was not accomplished. we think that they created a means of financing the banks and you say that didn't happen? >> no, that didn't happen, steve. they talked about a possible way to do it with a banking authority that there's no details about it all, with the possible supervisor, there's no structure for it at all. they just kind of put out this plan and pushed it off into the future like they have so many times. >> mark let me stop you. >> sure. >> what exactly has to happen for this, just take this one thing here, which is using the european rescue fund to finance the banks. there has to be what a unanimous vote now among all eu members and some changes of regulations, right? >> that's correct, and the netherlands came out yesterday and finland came out yesterday and said they're going to block it, so you really are nowhere. >> and you wrote within seconds of this decision that people should fade the rally on friday? >> that's correct, because i could see that there was no real meat to this, that it was just kind of another plan floated out into the future, and without some specifics and without some real actualities, especially since it's six months out from now, nothing is going to happen and the problems aren't now, in front of us now. it's like the firewall, they build this big fence and say they're going to make a bigger fence. the problem is that inside the fences are the nations like horses in a corral, and the horses are sick and they're not doing anything to deal with the horses, just talking about building a fence. >> so just getting back to what was decided friday do you think the market has this wrong? i'm just asking phil here. >> you've seen a pattern time and time again. europe has one of these meetings, they say something that's going to happen, they're agreeing on something that's, they're going to make an agreement that's a little bit not really well put together yet, the market rallies very hard, the shorts cover, people either get out of the market or take for a quick trade and it turns around and comes over again. that's the pattern. traders are going to stay with that until it doesn't work and that's what's working. >> have we eliminated though the lehman moment? i think a lot of what the trade has been is are we going to have a systemic collapse? if they muddle along for 20 years, like japan has, for example, and we've all survived the world's, what used to be the second largest economy doing nothing, what? you invest in america and you still 20 years from now, what have you got? >> sure, you weren't going to have the lehman moment if things totally broke down in greece, the summit someone walks out of the eu and things collapse. you're not going to have that but underlying fundamentals of the global economy are weakening and this is not doing anything to change that. so we will see these levels again most likely, fairly soon, as this rally peters out. don't look at too much of what's going on this week because there's no volume out there. >> with the holidays, sure. >> mark, where do you protect your money in this situation? >> well, steve, as you know, i've said for quite a long time i want to be in treasuries, agencies, i want to be in senior corporate debt. when you look at moments, what michelle just described, we've had a greek moment, a portuguese moment, an irish moment, we're now having a cyprus moment, spain which was supposed to be contained by the firewall, we're having a spanish moment, so we're having a series of moments and then of course very soon we're going to have whether the eu is going to fund greece when the troika comes in and find out all of the promises that weren't -- >> 1200 again, right? i mean -- >> it's a big yawn. >> exactly. mark, you have been right about what's been going on but wrong about direction here. >> well, i think the american stock market is myopic by nature, looking at just what's going on in america but as phil just pointed out which i think is critical we're seeing this very large recession in europe right now, it's going to go into germany. all of europe is going to be in a recession, that's 25% of the world's economy. we're already seeing it in the numbers of nike, proctor & gamble, other companies in america. i think by the fourth quarter we'll also be in a recession and the market at one point or another will recognize this. the bond market is already recognized it, the stock market is just playing catchup. >> guys, goed to see you this morning. thank you. phil silverman and mark grant. >> thank you, good to see you. coming up we'll head to chicago for a look at what traders are watching ahead of the startened trading day and 8:30 eastern time, america's richest oil man, harold hamm of continental resources will join to us talk oil, gas prices, and mitt romney's bid for the white house. and so too is the summer event. now get an incredible offer on the powerful c250 sport sedan. but hurry before this opportunity...disappears. the mercedes-benz summer event ends july 31st. what ? customers didn't like it. so why do banks do it ? hello ? hello ?! if your bank doesn't let you talk to a real person 24/7, you need an ally. hello ? ally bank. no nonsense. just people sense. we take it on ours. this summer put your family in an exceptionally engineered mercedes-benz now for an exceptional price during the summer event. but hurry, this offer ends july 31st. u.s. u.s. consumers are better at paying back bank debt. consumer delinquencies fell in 10 of the 11 categories it attracts during the first quarter. the only category that saw delinquencies rise home equities lines of credit. the aba says delinquencies are back at historical norms. further improvement from here further improvement could be difficult to achieve. let's get a check on the markets. cnbc's rick santelli is standing by at the cme in chicago. ireland may actually come back to the debt market? >> reporter: that will be fascinating. you know, i think we've lowered the bar a bit, michelle. i know that the rating agencies are frowned upon but i think the pecking order is going to probably get diluted a little bit more and i can't wait to see exactly how the paper prices, it should be interesting to watch the spreads there. if ever there was a window we know nothing is solved, we're in this kind of eye of the storm in my opinion so if you're going to do it, probably do it now. >> got it. what do you think we're doing here ahead of the number on friday when it comes to employment and looking at the ten-year today? >> well i think that the biggest variable down here is that we're open at all. there's very little volatility, very little noise. >> what is it about the equity market only closes early very few times of the year but the bond market always closes early. you guys got the lock on that. why is that? >> there's always this discussion who interprets the economy and the dynamics better. we think the bond market. many think equities. carry that same logic, and i think in the credit markets they look at it this way, customers and investors have this much to do, whatever that is, you can put it in four hours, you can put it in eight hours, you just dilute the number of trades per hour, that's the way the credit market looks at it. i think it's a shame that the new york equity markets which dictate the hours for the equity markets here don't think that way. i think early closes, you don't lose business, you just put it in a more concentrated timetable. >> hey, rick, we're getting a lot of -- i've been reading up on supreme court decisions and i mean marbury versus madison was 1800 but some during fdr. i have people writing in here that roberts is a genius, telling me to google things called morten's fork, talking about putting it back in the hands of the populous instead of deciding himself. do you have a tea party-worthy rant about the supreme court decision that you haven't given yet? >> no you know i'm still kind of trying to fight back sleep after reading that half of a whole page "wall street journal" editorial that i think you're kind of quasi, you read it yesterday. >> more today in fact. >> yeah, you know my feeling is this. i'm not going to voice or i haven't really talked to any of the fiscal conservatives that are one way or the other, even though it was imemployplied the the idiots with regard to the "wall street journal," same way they looked at issues of the patriot act and didn't agree with the conservatives. everybody has their own opinion. it's hard to compartmentalize people. i respect what roberts did. i don't know that it's going to change tax policy in the detail that the "wall street journal" fears, but you know, my feeling is let's move along and see how this thing works its way through. he definitely shook things up. >> yes. >> but in the end, my opinion is, specifically to health care. >> the voters. >> yes, kicking it to voters no matter what his choice would be is the optimum way to unite the country around what type of health policy we want and if the same, you know, knuckleheads that are writing regs and changing all the rules on banking, you know, if they want to have their health care version and their, you know, regulatory version, it's much more difficult i think for americans to weigh in on those. >> i'd spend five and a half hours, i spent five and a half hours with liesman. >> overstating it. >> unhinged without you as checks and balances all on the show. >> that's why we have a constitutional kind of structure here, right? >> exactly, right. >> it's hard for me to talk today. i'm so filled with that patriotic rocky road, i think i had about 65,000 calories of it, but it's really, you know, healthy food, isn't it? >> as long as it wasn't ben & jerry's, i'm okay with that. seriously, thank you. >> yes. >> i may organize -- go ahead. >> could we ever talk about the economics of what obama designed here and why it was something the heritage and the cato foundation came up with? >> on an individual mandate? no, no, no, no. >> you cannot -- listen you cannot do this unless you make everybody pay in. the idea that everything self-selects >> that's not the question. what about individual freedom? >> what about the freedom that somebody should not force me to pay for their emergency visit to the clinic? >> there are ways to solve that. >> and that issing your premiums. >> that's why the hospitals could afford it. >> 1%. >> that's why the hospitals -- >> the government intervention, it's because of government intervention. >> the hospitals are for this -- >> a lot of faustian deals were made. >> that's true. coming up the energy adviser to mitt romney's presidential campaign, he still won't be able to help with liesman. harold hamm will be with us. that cloud is in the network, so it can deliver all the power of the network itself. bringing people together to develop the best ideas -- and providing the apps and computing power to make new ideas real. it's the cloud from at&t. with new ways to work together, business works better. ♪ looking for a better place to put your cash? 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[ male announcer ] the highly advanced audi a6. named to car and driver's 10 best. ♪ >> >> welcome back to "squawk box" in the headlines a short day for wall street, the new york stock exchange rings the closing bell at 1:00 p.m. eastern time, one of the feud days of the year the day is cut short. tomorrow they are closed for the july 4th holiday. bob diamond stepped down following the libor rigging scandal. chair nan marcus agius will stay on to lead the search for a new ceo. chrysler's june u.s. sales up 20.3%, analysts expecting a june annual sales rate of just under 14 million units and phil lebeau e-mailed me a note about fiat, sets the record for the fifth straight month, we were talking about fiat, americans buying fiats, 20,000 sold in the first six months, more than all of last year, so whatever they did marketing wise or whatever the actual car is, americans like it and maybe it's not just california. i wonder how much of that is in the state of california where it's popular. from oil truck operator to billionaire he founded one of the largest independent oil companies, american made, something we've been doing all week, harold hamm runs continental resources and also we should point out gop candidate mitt romney's main adviser on energy policy. do you have some news to bring us today, too, harold, about continental? >> the news as we approach independence day and freedom in america, and that celebration is about what the american people think about american energy independence and nine out of ten american people believe that american energy independence is something we ought to strive for. harris just did a poll, results are out now and we've made those public that nine out of ten american people believe that american energy independence is not only within our grasp in the next ten years but something we ought to strive for. >> when you're president, harold, you know you get credit for -- actually you don't get credit for a lot of the bad things this time around but you do get credit for a lot of the good things that happen, and i'm talking about the boom in domestic energy exploration and discovery, i against it's mostly fracking and natural gas. does the credit go to the president for -- the last three or four years is when i think a lot of what you're talking about became self-evident to americans, that we could do this, it's happened under his watch. does he get credit? >> i start talking about american energy independence two years ago and at that time, hardly anybody was on the band wagon with me. since then raymond james, citigroup and others have come out and said it's something we can do. certainly this president was not contributed to that effort, you know, over the past 15 years, one thing does it and that is precision hordes on drilling. let's just go to the immobile that's on earth, we've been producing the mobile portion of oil on earth for the past 160 years, so now today we can go to the immobile portion and it's about a third larger than the mobile portion of the oil on earth was, so yes, we're doing that with natural gas, we're doing it with oil, and certainly this administration has not been favorable to what's going on. >> if they haven't we've done pretty well even though they haven't been cooperative. if mitt romney were elected president and if you were advising him, what would you advise him to do differently than we're doing right now? >> well, there's a lot of things we could be doing different. you know, the boom that we've had in natural gas production and certainly we're seeing the effects also with crude oil, we're not going to have a glut with crude oil that we've had with natural gas. we've got one huge field, and a couple others that are coming on that are contributing, but you know, of the 15 resource players across the country for natural gas, we have basically the eagle and the bach and permian so we're not going to see the glut we have seen with natural gas but anyway it's been a great thing, and you know, it comes from drilling wells. you have to go out there and poke holes in the ground and basically the technology that we have today to go down two miles, turn right, and drill two miles further and hit your target in there, joe, you know, we do that every day. >> a lot of simpson-bowles people talk about simplifying things and getting rid of a lot of tax shifts that help corporations. and get to a lower total rate, you've defended all the tax subsidies that go to the oil and gas industry. is that something that if we were to, you know, reform the whole tax system, would you offer that up somehow to get rid of that, to get a grand bargain down the road? how do you defend these tax subsidies that we hear about so often not being necessary? >> well, there you go again, call them subsidies, joe. >> tax deductions? >> well they're tax provisions that we have, and certainly it's favorable for expiration in this country and it allows us to go out and fail and fail again, and we do that, as necessary, we did that with the balkan some 18 wells were drawn before it was commercial. it's necessary we have tax consequence that will allow us to do that, so certainly it's favorable. we need something favorable for -- and that's what the american people are saying, that if we can get off of foreign oil and certainly we're talking about north american energy independence in the next ten years. >> you can see to get things done, harold, you have to worry about the optex of things. you hear about exxon not paying much in domestic taxes. when wildcaters are used to drilling and if you come up empty, then you drilled in the wrong place. >> it's tough luck. >> if you strike it rich then you strike it rich which a lot of people have done. that's what the other side would say in response to whether you need the government to absorb the dry wells. >> well, we're talking about the same tax that every business has, and that is to write off the labor, you know, that it takes to do the job and that's what our tax provision goes to, not any different than any other company out there, you know, we don't have to pay those taxes first year, since the taxes are deferred and those provisions are very important to what we do. >> mr. hamm, it's michelle here. have you been paying attention at all to the new president-elect in mexico and what he's saying about perhaps allowing finally after decades private investment in their state oil company? is that going to make any difference in terms of supplying the united states any time in the near future, do you think? >> well, it would. we need to be talking to our neighbors here of course in mexico and it's a good chance we'll go cross that border. sometimes borders don't stop oil fields and as we've seen in the balkan, so we need to be talking to them. that's a big step, nationalization, i think, 1936 in mexico and that's big. >> harold, just real quickly, you probably talk to people up in canada, too. are we beyond the point of totally mending relations with them? have they already started sending things west to china or let's say your guy gets in, romney, can we fully get back to keystone and it will be as good as it would have ever been or have they already taken steps to send it the other way? >> the canadian people are good people. i think the fences can be mended, joe. i don't think it's permanent. it needs to be done quickly. they're not going to set on the sidelines. you know, they have oil for sale and they're trying to improve their petro dollar economy up there, and certainly they're going to do everything in their power to do it, but that needs to be done quickly and to mend that, so i'm an american producer and i'm not for a lot more oil coming down but nevertheless, it's selfish on my part. >> harold hamm, thank you. we appreciate it. happy fourth of july. don't. you the that tie away, wear that tomorrow. >> thanks, joe. appreciate it. >> okay, see you later. >> all right, bye. coming up, our american made series continues with a visit to hershey park founded as an entertainment and leisure center for the small factory town, the park has grown into a top destination for thrill seekers, spa goers and foodies alike. how consumers are finding their way back to the park, after the financial crisis. misshen you when you miss "squawk box," you fall behind on global business news. when you fall behind on global business news, you make bad investment decisions. when you make bad investment decisions, you lose all your money. when you lose all your money, you are tempted to hatch an illegal ponzi scheme. when you hatch an illegal ponzi scheme, you get roughed up in an interrogation room. don't get roughed up in an interrogation room. watch "squawk box." w york state. we built the first railway, the first trade route to the west, the greatest empires. then, some said, we lost our edge. well today, there's a new new york state. one that's working to attract businesses and create jobs. a place where innovation meets determination... and businesses lead the world. the new new york works for business. find out how it can work for yours at thenewny.com. with scottrader streaming quotes, any way you want. fully customize it for your trading process -- from thought to trade, on every screen. and all in real time. which makes it just like having your own trading floor, right at your fingertips. 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[ all ] i'm with scottrade. it's another reason more investors are saying... by what's getting done. measure commitment the twenty billion dollars bp committed has helped fund economic and environmental recovery. long-term, bp's made a five hundred million dollar commitment to support scientists studying the environment. and the gulf is open for business - the beaches are beautiful, the seafood is delicious. last year, many areas even reported record tourism seasons. the progress continues... but that doesn't mean our job is done. we're still committed to seeing this through. welcome back to "squawk box." black rock is buying european private equities business. the swiss unit had $7.5 billion in total commitments as of may 31st. duke energy completed its buyout of progress energy but with a change in plans. progress ceo bill johnson quit rather than taking the ceo job at the combined company. duke's ceo jim rogers will stay in that job and remain chairman as well. steve? all right, i was going to ask joe about health care but we have to move on. our "american made" series continues with a company built during the great depression and expanded into one of the world's sweetest brands. joining us with more is kim schaller, chief marketing of hershey's entertainment and resorts. how is business? is it a business that sort of tracks the economy? >> absolutely. definitely. we're impacted by any kind of economic condition and also weather we've got a glorious day here so we're impacted by the economy. >> chocolate, people buy more chocolate when they're feeling wealthier, right? >> i don't know about the chocolate part. i know about the entertainment and hospitality aspects. >> tell us about the parks, is it something where you're seeing more people coming to the parks because they're traveling more domestically? >> i think definitely, whenever there is an issue where international travel is deferred, people do, they stay close to home and we have 60 million people within a half a day's drive of hershey so we clearly benefit from that kind of situation. >> when gdp goes up or down i assume your sales go up or down, no? >> absolutely. we definitely do better, when families are feeling good, when they feel like they've got that disposable income to get away, and we all know that a family getaway truly is something people aren't going to give up anymore so they do it, they make the trip. >> you have a new coaster, right? >> yes, sky rush! it's our 12th coaster, highest, longest, fast ers oest one in tk and it is amazinamazing. >> we have the guy from sea world on asking the same question. feels like you're always in an arms race when it comes to the latest, greatest thing, always lots of capital expenditures because you got to get people coming back. does it feel like that to you? are you already planning the next big coaster? >> i think you have to. but again hershey park we hold a different position to consumers. we're not really about the highest, fastest, longest. it's about quality and family, family time and family entert n entertainme entertainment. no question, something new is what you need to talk about. >> we have beautiful hotels but you do know something about selling chocolate. you can't walk three feet without having an opportunity to buy hershey's chocolate at the park. >> i know, i know, and chocolate is everywhere. >> i've been there, bought it and eaten it and seen how it's made, each individual kiss and you've got a couple of great hotels there, too, right? >> yes. >> there's the lodge which it's impossible to get into, i think, maybe you could get in, steve. >> the hershey lodge, and hotel hershey. >> why? >> because you're famous. >> me? i could get in. you couldn't? >> i couldn't. >> maybe she could help you out. >> we were just down in universal which is quite good i might say and it is really -- >> don't get insulted, that's the parent company. >> you don't compete with frl yoo, right, that's a different trip. you're talking about people who are as you said living within the area and they decide to come out to the park. >> it's a short drive. you should go out there. >> we do get literally guests from every state of the union and many foreign companies but typically within a 300 mile radius people visit the park. universal, they're all great, a great industry to be a part of. >> tell us what happened to admission costs and how those prices have changed. >> i do think as we continue to add new things and admission prices go up, i think that's the nate eyre of our business. >> how much does a roller coaster cost, if i wanted to put one in the backyard what would it be? >> well our great sky rush is $27 million to add. >> really? >> but there are ways for people to save. you really can, we have over 28 million coupons in the marketplace, we have partners everywhere, different admission plans so there are ways to save, no question, that's key for us. >> kim, thanks very much for joining us this morning. >> thank you. great to be here. >> good to see you, kim, thank you. >> good seeing you, joe. >> it's very close. >> use my celebrity to get in. >> it's close and you know how to get there. >> i don't know. i know what you were going to say. you were dying at the brink with that joke. >> you go out the door -- >> is this part of what you planned from yesterday? >> favorites down at "squawk on the street." coming up, stocks on the move aed half the shortened -- it's the way to get to hershey park. we're going to head to the new york stock exchange next. ready or not the stock of the day is coming up. you're watching "squawk box" on cnbc. first in business worldwide. ♪ ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] what's the point of an epa estimated 42 miles per gallon if the miles aren't interesting? the lexus ct hybrid. this is the pursuit of perfection. the teacher that comes to mind for me is my high school math teacher, dr. gilmore. i mean he could teach. he was there for us, even if we needed him in college. you could call him, you had his phone number. he was just focused on making sure we were gonna be successful. he would never give up on any of us. you have to dig a little. fidelity's etf market tracker shows you the big picture on how different asset classes are performing, and it lets you go in for a closer look at areas within a class or sector that may be bucking a larger trend. i'm stephen hett of fidelity investments. the etf market tracker is one more innovative reason serious investors are choosing fidelity. get 200 free trades today and explore your next investing idea. if you're just joining us, here's what you missed. >> oh, i think that this is -- he's a scapegoat if you're just joining us, here's what you missed. >> oh, i think that this is -- he's a scapegoat here and he probably had to go, i guess. >> not well liked. right? >> i think -- i like him. >> do you know him? >> i do. i think he was a good ceo, did a lot for barclays. i don't think this is the end for him. >> so if and when the economy recovers, guess what? prices going right back up again because there's simply lack of leadership on the public policy front and why i'm pounding tables all over this country. >> the media got to him. he thought he could be a hero. let's do it and do something here and you're right. the dissent not only well written, it was correct. it was obviously correct. >> i think it was a wrong decision. and think this they should have ruled on the commerce clause grounds and should have left it at that. welcome back. "squawk box." let's get down to new york stock exchange. carl, melissa and david. >> you're laughing already in. >> i'm laughing, david -- you don't watch, do you, when you're down there? >> no. >> every second. >> no. i'm working. did watch this morning at about 6:45 this morning. >> no, no. >> you could have cut your losses on this one. >> you could have said no. >> i just referenced you, david. do you know what ceo we just had on? >> no. >> the hershey. >> i did see that. from the park. >> infamy forever. >> that was -- that's got to be 15 years old. >> almost 15 years. steve did not know -- >> i did know! >> you didn't know how to get to hershey park from here. >> i did know. i do know. >> you didn't know. >> would you ask to sit in this seat to replace andy on vacation and you refused. you wouldn't do this. you wouldn't do this, david. >> the only benefit of getting older is having a little bit of wisdom. >> you have the power to say no. i was dragged back. i was going to be on vacation this weekend. >> happy fourth. >> somebody help me. >> it's only going until 1:00 today i guess. fourth of july. i don't know. if it one of the best holidays? not for the dogs. i can tell you that much. it's little bit quiet today. >> with the fireworks. >> the dogs, the fireworks, yeah. >> i see. >> i tell you this. lucky will -- he'll be poolside. if it's hot enough, put him in and swim to the steps quickly. >> not afraid of the fireworks? >> there he is. doesn't look that young anymore. kind of a silly -- >> none of us do, carl. >> what is that? is that a cat? >> oh, steve! >> is that a cat? >> so easy. >> a cheap shot. >> you guys are ridiculous. >> it's a gerbil, i think. >> it's a dog. >> ferret maybe. you know what, guys? on this session, joe, you know it's a classic day to dump bad news ahead of the holiday. >> that's true. >> one of the last chances to trade before ecb on thursday and on high alert for negative headlines. >> i thought of something to ask you, faber. >> yeah? >> historically, is not -- i just have a positive opinion of what bob diamond was able to do for barclays. not even a player in the united states for a long time. this is a sort of a not great way to exit after what i thought was a pretty good career. >> no. i kind of -- i agree with you. listen. the lehman deal alone, what he was able to do there and take in the assets for what everybody argued was an excellent price and pulling back, right, of course before actually preventing the bankruptcy. barclays was there and then couldn't do it. uk regulators wouldn't let them do that. that's not insignificant. >> yeah. all right. thank you. we appreciate it. we'll be watching. you have the market open for your whole show so we don't worry about that. i don't know what "power lunch" will do. no. it's going to be great. got to watch. thank you. see you, guys. coming up, the stock of the day. is it in your portfolio? accolade overdrive. zagat just gave hertz its top rating in 15 categories, including best overall car rental. so elevate your next car rental experience with the best. it's just another way you'll be traveling at the speed of hertz. ♪ [ male announcer ] its lightweight construction makes it nimble... ♪ its road gripping performance makes it a cadillac. introducing the all-new cadillac xts. available with advanced haldex all-wheel drive. 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[ all ] i'm with scottrade. a living, breathing intelligence helping business, do more business. in here, opportunities are created and protected. gonna need more wool! demand is instantly recognized and securely acted on across the company. around the world. turning a new trend, into a global phenomenon. it's the at&t network -- securing a world of new opportunities. ♪ securing a world of new opportunities. if you made a list of countries from around the world... ...with the best math scores. ...the united states would be on that list. in 25th place. let's raise academic standards across the nation. let's get back to the head of the class. let's solve this. back to the day is navistar "wall street journal" reporting they'll back away from the pollution control technology using for the engines. that technology hurt its sales. am i boring you? steve? as i was saying -- >> you yawned. >> a huge -- it was not only -- >> was it really audible? >> i could hear it, yeah. >> i apologize. very exciting story about it. >> as well as -- >> being the -- >> wasn't reading it exciting enough. >> look at this. >> with federal regular ltors. >> the ceo is saying the company is not in a death spiral. the minute you have to say you're not in a death spiral -- yeah. >> so the people still i have been laughed at in the last week for people who look at you as if i'm carrying an abacus with a blackberry. >> i have one, too. >> i don't. i do. i have a blackberry and an iphone. >> they say in australia scheduling a meeting on a

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