Transcripts For CNBC 60 Minutes On CNBC 20130724

The worst team in the nba. But as youll see, hes not like any other owner of a big time American Sports franchise. Hes an adrenaline junkie with a few unusual toys. See . [gun clicking] and he owes some of his fame and fortune to a bevy of party girls. Frankly speaking, i like women. Coal has made jim rogers and his company rich, and thats why we were surprised to hear what this power baron has to say about what coal does to the environment. You know, there are a lot of people, many of them in your industry, many people that you probably know, who say that Global Warming is not a big problem. Its my judgment it is a problem. We need to go to work on it now. And its critical that we start to act in this country. But if its so critical, why is rogers still building new coalburning power plants . Welcome to 60 minutes on cnbc. Im steve kroft. Politics and business can be strange bedfellows. In this episode, we have a report on a billionaire walking a fine line between the russian government and american professional basketball. And later, a story about a coal executive grappling with a dirty little notsosecret problem. But first we look at companies who may be illegally doing business with iran. The Obama Administration has pushed for tough new sanctions against iran because of that countrys efforts to produce nuclear weapons. But as lesley stahl reported in 2010, iran is having no problems getting high tech materials and components through undertheradar middlemen who run small Trading Companies around the world, some based in cities right here in the United States. Are you a procurement agent for iran . [chortles] no, thats ridiculous. No. But of course thats sort of the implication of the case against you. Im nothing to do with iranian government or things like that at all. Mohammad vaghari, mitch to his friends, an iranian whos lived in the United States for 15 years, is facing up to 85 years in prison. He and his lawyers are preparing for his trial on charges that he conspired to send u. S. Technology to iran through a Trading Company he set up in his basement apartment in philadelphia. You are charged with trying to buy a centrifuge that could be used to make biological weapons, like anthrax. I dont know about that. Im not a biological expert to tell, you know thats in the affidavit and is part of. Sure. The charges against you . Yes. Thats what they say. He says his client for the centrifuge was a science lab at a university in dubai. But he says he never bought it. He only asked for its price. It was too expensive. You know, we couldnt afford such a thing. This is apparently why the fbi came to you, was over the centrifuge. Mmhmm. The salesperson who you spoke to got suspicious. Says he asked you all kinds of questions. He asked you for a shipping address that you wouldnt give him. I told them, we are a middleman. I just want to know how much is this. But this middleman fit a pattern a u. S. Based iranian with a small export company trying to send technology to dubai, which is a popular port for sending goods on to iran. The fbi then learned that vaghari was asked to buy a hydrophone that could be used to listen to submarines and laptops. You did end up sending three items to dubai. How sophisticated were the items . Very Common College Lab Equipment. Did they go to iran . Never, no. Youre sure of that . As far as i know, yes. The stuff was intended for dubai and ended up in dubai and stayed in dubai. Thats what i think. But in a search of his apartment, the fbi found emails asking him to make inquiries for the Pastor Institute and Tarbiat Modarres university. Both are based in tehran. And according to intelligence out of europe, both are trying to buy Lab Equipment in the west that could be used to produce biological weapons. Vaghari will argue in court that the equipment was for iranian professors who work in dubai. So you think the whole premise of the u. S. Case is faulty. Doesnt make sense. David kris is the head of the National Security division at the Justice Department. He says most middlemen arent in it for politics. Theyre people who i think primarily are motivated by profit. Profit. They want the money. And theyre adaptable and intelligent, and we have to adapt to keep pace with them. The vaghari case, he seems like such a low level guy. He operated out of his basement. He had no money. Why would the iranians go to him . The iranians will exploit an opportunity if they see one, whether the guy is, you know, sort of some kind of fancy pants International Arms dealer with a mink coat and a private jet, or whether hes some guy operating out of a basement somewhere in some kind of classic boiler room style operation. It doesnt really matter to them as long as they get the technology that they are seeking at the other end of it. Kris leads a multiagency effort to hunt down the smugglers. A lot of the investigative work is done by i. C. E. , u. S. Immigration and customs enforcement. Clark settles, a special agent with i. C. E. , says the wakeup call came in 2005, when u. S. Soldiers in iraq stumbled upon an unexploded roadside bomb. And they looked inside, and it was american chip inside the i. E. D. . Yes, and what i can say is that theyre finding that on a regular basis. That theres u. S. Components inside of i. E. D. S in iraq and afghanistan. The government learned that the u. S. Manufacturer had sent the chips to dubai. They were sent on to iran and then given to insurgents in iraq. Settles also showed me u. S. Items smugglers were caught buying for iran that could be used in their Nuclear Program. Ballistic missile parts. Tiny radar components. And these sensitive devices crucial to build a nuclear bomb. The pressure transducers. Pressure transducers. Yes. Its an integral part of enriching uranium. Iran may have succeeded in obtaining these. Look at this photo of president ahmadinejad in Irans Nuclear facility in natanz. Right behind him is an american transducer looking exactly like this thing. Yes, the iranians were trying to acquire these transducers. One reason its so hard to enforce the sanctions is that many items iran wants are sold for nonmilitary uses, like this little widget a triggered spark gap. The triggered spark gap can be utilized in a lithotripter, which is a machine, a medical device, that can break up kidney stones. And its also used to detonate a nuclear weapon. So this is the typical dual use item. A very scary dual use item. After you catch someone, have you been able to flip them . Absolutely. And have you been able in this way to sabotage some of the things you send over . In other words, send over faulty stuff thatll break down. I cant comment on anything like that. [chuckles] up next, an iranian is arrested after buying sensitive equipment from the u. S. You ended up selling one of your devices to iran. By accident, certainly. Did they tell you it was going to iran . They said it was going to malaysian telekom. When 60 minutes on cnbc continues. [ticking] my mantra . Always go the extra mile. To treat my low testosterone, i did my research. My doctor and i went with axiron, the only underarm low t treatment. Axiron can restore t levels to normal in about 2 weeks in most men. Axiron is not for use in women or anyone younger than 18 or men with prostate or breast cancer. 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There are people in iran or in certain nonextradition countries where we may have difficulty getting to them. On the other hand, weve had cases where we have charges against somebody, and years later they travel, and maybe they think weve forgotten about them. But we dont forget. Hes talking about people like majid kakavand, an iranian electrical engineer from tehran. I am not criminal. I havent done anything. I am innocent. Kakavand was tracked down in 2009 as he landed in paris on vacation. I was arrested by the police in the airport. They told me, okay, theres an arrest warrant against you issued by the United States. The french sent him to prison pending his extradition to the u. S. , where he faces charges that he tricked several American Companies into shipping tens of thousands of electrical components destined for iran, but via malaysia. He and his Business Partners sent a blizzard of email orders to companies they found on the internet. We found a company that responded in huntsville, alabama. Now, were here because you ended up selling one of your devices to iran. By accident, certainly. Lynn leaper is the ceo of az technology, which makes Aerospace Testing equipment. She sold kakavand this spectroreflectometer, a device with various uses, including, the government says, enhancing the capability of long range missiles. She says kakavands Trading Company lied to her in their emails. We asked who the end user was, which is one of the questions on the end user. Right. Yeah. Oh, did they tell you it was going to iran . They said it was going to malaysian telekom. Did that make any sense . Yeah, actually its a reasonable request. So she sold it for 95,000, and off it went to kuala lumpur. We know actually from the indictment of mr. Kakavand that he had arranged for your product to be flown via iran air. [chuckling] right into tehran. Do you know even know who the actual recipient of it was . In the indictments, there were two companies listed. One of them is does deal with electrooptical equipment. And also weapons of mass destruction. Of course. That company is a subsidiary of Iran Electronics industries, a contractor that makes weapons and Communication Systems for the iranian military. Seems like an openandshut case against kakavand, but it isnt. Nowhere else in the world this is considered as a crime. Nowhere else except in the United States. Diane francois is kakavands lawyer in paris, where hes fighting his extradition to the u. S. She explains that in europe, there are no sanctions against trading with iran, except when it comes to arms and nuclear sales. The United States is somehow asking Foreign Countries to recognize their embargo, their National Defense interest while it is not at all the one of other sovereign countries. Do the europeans, and the french particularly, have no moral issues selling electronics or anything that could conceivably be used in weapons to iran . Look, that is, first, a political question, and i disagree with the question itself. To the best of my knowledge, trading with iran on many commodities has absolutely nothing to do with the Nuclear Program of iran. Youre client wasnt buying dresses. He wasnt buy tables. He was buying electronics. And he was sending them to iran. He was buying a lot of electrical components, and this is still not forbidden by any legislation other than your embargo. Were talking about tens of thousands of different items here. Well, i mean, you can buy 50,000 plugs at 50¢ each. It doesnt make you a great criminal. She says nothing he bought meets the definition of arms that are restricted for sale under french law. But the Justice Department argues that kakavand was doing business in the u. S. , not france, and that he lied to get the goods. It seems that i am a victim of the existing policies between iran and the United States and the other countries. You have gone after some big fish, but then they get caught in various countries, and those countries let them go, in country after country. Hong kong, thailand, poland. Its always frustrating if you think youve found a bad guy and you cant lay hands on him. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. And you just keep going. Iran has publicly condemned the u. S. And france for kakavands arrest. If he is extradited, itll be a landmark victory for enforcing the sanctions abroad. But there are many more smugglers out there. Do you have the feeling, as weve heard, that you can shut someone down and five new people take their place . I have a feeling that there are a lot of different people out there who are trying to do this. But i think we are making a difference, even if were not stopping every transaction that would otherwise occur. One frustrated agent told us, were only catching the dumb ones. [chuckles] well, the dumber you are, the more likely we are to catch you. But id like to think weve caught some smart people too. In may 2010, a French Appeals Court refused to extradite majid kakavand, and the french government sent him back to iran. There were questions about whether his return was part of a deal for the release of a french citizen being held in iran. Kakavand meanwhile has complained of his treatment while in french custody, which he claims was intentionally rough at the request of the u. S. [ticking] coming up, well meet a man with some very impressive toys. [gun clicks] its brand new. Its kalashnikov bought for special forces. Thats your boat . Thats my small yacht. Where is it now . Really, i dont know. You dont know where it is . No. When 60 minutes on cnbc returns. [ticking] this man is about to be the millionth customer. Would you mind if i go ahead of you . 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And some owners, like jerry jones of the Dallas Cowboys and the late George Steinbrenner of the new york yankees, have become just as famous as their star players. In 2010, that exclusive club opened up to a man who counts his billions in rubles. His name is Mikhail Prokhorov, and we sat down with the Russian Oligarch just as he was buying the worst team in professional basketball, the new jersey nets. For me, life, and business in particular, is a big game. [thumping drum beat] if you could afford to do anything, would you do this . And hire a Production Company to put it to music . How about this . Maybe not. But Mikhail Prokhorov is always looking for a challenge. You like danger . I like to control risk. Control risk . Yeah. By now, you have probably guessed that russias wealthiest citizen and largest individual taxpayer is an adrenaline junkie. He is also one of the countrys most avid sportsmen, a former owner of a moscow basketball that won the european championship. You will also notice that he is quite tall, 68 to be exact, as he trains here with his personal kickboxing partner, who is also the coach of the Russian National team. I am addicted to sport. Without sport, i feel bad. In this case, its some kind of a drug. How much time do you spend working out every day . Two hours. Whatever happen, two hours, i have my workout. Reduces stress . I like to be in stress. You like it . Its my competitive advantage. For someone who loves sports, stress, and challenges, theres probably no better buy than the new jersey nets. For a few hundred Million Dollars, prokhorov recently bought 80 of the worst team in the National Basketball association. 20 years ago, a russian would have never been allowed to buy an American Sports franchise, but nba commissioner david stern says its just one more sign that the world is changing. America is really the only place where the question gets asked, what about those foreigners . This is a global sport. Our games our televised in 215 countries and 43 languages. So it was really a natural import of globalization. It also has something to do with the recession. A number of nba teams are struggling financially, and prokhorov has the one thing the league and the nets need most right now very deep pockets which come from a farflung financial empire. He flew us to siberia to check out russias richest gold Mining Company. He owns almost half of it, plus a big chunk of the worlds biggest aluminum producer. [woman speaking in russian] there is a media empire, plus two banks, an insurance company, and lots of real estate, including this house, which has a builtin Swimming Pool and of course a fitness center. Thats your boat . Its my small yacht. He showed us a model of his 200foot yacht. The real one, he says, makes him seasick. Where is it now . Really, i dont know. You dont know where it is . No. [gun clicking] and we spotted some of his other toys. Its brand new. Its kalashnikov bought for special forces. It never hurts to have friends in the special forces, and right now prokhorov has friends everywhere. The night we were invited for dinner, the guest list included a former russian governor and one of the countrys biggest movie stars at a table laden with regional delicacies flown in for the occasion and endless bottles of chateau Lafite Rothschild 95. After business and sports, prokhorov says food is his favorite passion, followed by Human Interaction and beautiful women. And on that last front, he has managed to remain unencumbered. Frankly speaking, i like women. In my heart, i am still teenager. And i am very open, and i dont want to hurry this. You say youre a big risk taker in business and in sports, but not with women, right . I am not to blame. I think women, they are making the same mistake with me all the time. The way to the mans heart is through his stomach. He says he hasnt found a woman who can cook well enough to marry, but he seems to be looking for her in all the wrong places. [thumping techno music] when prokhorov took us to moscows exclusive soho club, there were 20 beautiful women waiting in his private section to entertain him and his friends, and none of them looked like they wanted to spend their lives over a hot stove. As we said earlier, this penchant for pulchritude has gotten him into trouble before and help him make a fortune. But before we get to that, it helps to know about his money and how he made it. People say you are the richest man in russia. Maybe. Who knows . Do you know how much money you have . No. I mean, does 17 billion sound about right . Im lucky i have enough money to be really independent. But it doesnt drive me just to count money, thinking about money. Its only a side effect of what im doing in business. [ticking] prokhorov has a runin with the french police. They thought that you were bringing prostitutes into the country. I think, yes, because it was absolutely a police misunderstanding. You said the french elite is envious because theyre lagging behind in fashion, in life, and in sex drive. Zats true. [laughs] when 60 minutes on cnbc continues. [ticking] at farmers we make you smarter about insurance, because what you dont know can hurt you. What if you didnt know that its smart to replace washingmachine hoses every five years . What if you didnt know that you might need extra coverage for more expensive items . And what if you didnt know that teen drivers are four times more likely to get into an accident . sup the more you know, the better you can plan for whats ahead. Talk to farmers and get smarter about your insurance. We are farmers bum pa dum, bum bum bum bum but the instant frizz . Not so much. So im taking pantenes 72hour dare. [ female announcer ] beat humidity for a smooth 72 hours. 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Like most russian billionaires, Mikhail Prokhorovs fortune was molded from the ashes of the former soviet union with a little bit of luck and the help of a powerful political connection. He was raised among the soviet elite and studied at the prestigious moscow financial institute, where he majored in international finance. So when communism and the soviet union finally collapsed, he was one of the few people who knew anything about World Markets and free enterprise. We made a crazy transformation, just crazy transformation. Can you imagine 20 years ago we know nothing about capitalism, nothing. His expertise drew the attention of vladimir potanin, a future deputy Prime Minister of russia with close ties to the kremlin, who had just been given the right to open two private banks. He asked prokhorov to run them as his partner. The downside was, the job might get him killed. During the 1990s, hundreds of russian businessmen were gunned down by contract killers hired to resolve disputes or by gangsters trying to muscle in on someone elses turf. It was a wild west. It was a territory with no sherriff. With no sherriff . No rules. You need to survive. And he did survive, and with no blood on his hands. By the time he reached 30, he was already a multimillionaire. But a much bigger pay day was just around the corner. In 1995, prokhorov and potanins bank won the equivalent of the russian lottery. Kremlin leaders gave them what amounted to an insiders opportunity to buy one of the states most valuable assets a huge mining and metals operation called norilsk nickel, which is among the Worlds Largest producers of nickel, copper, and platinum. They acquired it from the kremlin in a socalled auction for the measly sum of a few hundred Million Dollars in a process that even prokhorovs Business Partner admitted wasnt perfect and probably not even legal under western standards. But it was legal in russia. [woman speaking in russian] yulia latynina, one of russias top business journalists, says it was sort of like a slam dunk. No one was shocked or surprised. Everybody would have would have been surprised if they didnt win the if they didnt win it. [chuckles] so it was rigged. Yes, it was rigged. But it cannot be explained in normal economic terms to an outsider, especially an american. This is just the way these things worked. You had robber barons. We had oligarchs. Prokhorov transformed the decrepit Mining Company into one of the most productive operations in the world, taking it public before world prices for metals and other Raw Materials began to skyrocket, along with the price of his stock. And he sold at the perfect time, but not necessarily because he wanted to. Now we get to the party girls. In january 2007, prokhorov flew a planeload of friends to the french ski resort of courchevel, and brought along eight russian models to help entertain them not an unusual custom in the upper echelons of the russian business world, but apparently unknown to french constables, who took prokhorov into custody on suspicion of promoting prostitution. They thought that you were bringing prostitutes into the country. I think, yes, because it was absolutely a police misunderstanding. And how long were you there . Three days. Three days. You couldnt leave . It sounds strange, but it was really fun for me. Its a good experience. I like even such challenges. It created a Minor International incident, with french president Nicolas Sarkozy giving prokhorov a shoutout as a man who obviously wants to please his friends. Did you think that was funny . Good joke. [chuckles] and prokhorov responded in kind. You said, the french elite is envious because theyre lagging behind in fashion, in life, and in sex drive. Zats true. [laughs] the russian government was not too happy about this, right . About the publicity. Its natural. French police never pressed charges, and according to prokhorov, later apologized. But russian cartoonists had a field day. A Fruit Juice Company lampooned him in a commercial. Puttin on the ritz and his wellconnected Business Partner, vladimir potanin, suggested it would be a good time for prokhorov to sell his share of their joint ventures, which he did for 10 billion, just two months before the International Financial crisis devastated the russian stock market. With prokhorov sitting on a mountain of cash, he became the richest man in the country. And it might not have happened without those party girls. Its a part of any business to be lucky. And you sold at just the right time. Miracle happens. Its safe to say that there arent any nba owners with stories like that one. And prokhorovs life in the opaque world of russian business presented a unique challenge for the National Basketball association, which is charged with investigating the personal and business background prospective nba owners. But commissioner david stern says prokhorov passed all the tests. You think hes a man of character . I think hes as man who has passed a very tight security check, and nobody has come up with any reason why he shouldnt be an nba owner. Commissioner stern believes prokhorov to be a shrewd businessman, although we found him to be a bit unorthodox. Wheres your computer . I dont use a computer. You have something against computers . We have too much information, and its really impossible to filter it. He believes his biggest strengths are organization and leading people. Any abilities you wish you had that you dont have . Sometimes maybe to be less tall. To be less tall . [chuckles] well, youre about to enter a world of very tall people with the nba. Youre gonna actually be pretty short. [chuckles] compared with the players, yes, but compared with the common people, i am tall enough. Trust me. Prokhorov has been brushing up on his english and his jump shot. If everything goes according to plan, in 2012, he will move the nets to a brand new arena in brooklyn, home to the largest russian American Community in the United States. Who knows . He may even find that perfect woman hes been looking for. I am really excited to take the worst team of the league and to turn it to be the best. You think you can do that . I am confident. Do you remember in the Frank Sinatra song new york, new york, if i can make it there, i can make it anywhere. [chuckles] after buying the nets in 2010, Mikhail Prokhorov lost no time in putting his stamp on the team, with playful jabs at the neighboring New York Knicks and bold advances to some of the highest profile players in the league. He also brought along some russian sponsors for his teams new brooklyn arena. Prokhorov announced he was selling his shares in the gold mine and investing in a new hybrid car called yo [ticking] up next, a coal executive admits his power plants are hazards. How much coal does this plant burn in an given day . Every day this plant burns roughly 19,000 tons of coal. Thats two trainloads, and each train has about 100 cars. Controlling Carbon Emissions in the near future is inevitable in your view. This is gonna happen. Its inevitable, in my judgment. Youre one of the biggest polluters in the world when it comes to Carbon Emissions. Were one of the largest emitters, and it tells you how daunting the challenge is that we have in front of us. 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Whose idea was this . Corporate. At bridgestone, our passion for performance knows no bounds. The future of our climate might be summed up in one question what do we do about coal . Coal generates nearly half the electricity in the United States and the world, but it is also the dirtiest fuel of all when it comes to Carbon Dioxide, or co2, the leading greenhouse gas. The Obama Administration has declared that co2 is a threat to human health, and it plans to impose limits. But making coal safe will come at an astronomical cost. One of the most influential people in this debate is jim rogers. Coal has made rogers and his company rich, but as he told scott pelley in 2009, he also knows what coal does to the environment. [helicopter blades whirring] jim rogers wanted us to see americas enormous dependency on coal, so he flew us out to one of his 20 coalburning power plants. I remember the first time i took a helicopter to look down at a power plant like this, i was 41 years old, and i said, oh, my goodness, im responsible for that . Rogers is the ceo of duke energy, the nations Third Largest electric utility. His smoke stacks pump out 100 million tons of Carbon Dioxide every year, which makes what comes out of rogers mouth so surprising. Controlling Carbon Emissions in the near future is inevitable in your view. This is gonna happen. Its inevitable, in my judgment. Youre one of the biggest polluters in the world when it comes to Carbon Emissions. Were one of the largest emitters, and it tells you how daunting the challenge is that we have in front of us. You know, there are a lot of people, many of them in your industry, many people that you probably know, who say that Global Warming is not a big problem. Its my judgment it is a problem. We need to go to work on it now. And its critical that we start to act in this country. Like a reformed tobacco executive, rogers says we cant survive the emissions his industry creates. He showed us what he means at a North Carolina power station that can light up 1 1 2 million homes. How much coal does this plant burn in a given day . Every day this plant burns roughly 19,000 tons of coal. Thats two trainloads, and each train has about 100 cars. This is what that looks like. See the train in the foreground and the train in the background . Its the same train, a mile long. The fact is, america runs on coal, and heres one of the reasons why the powder river basin that stretches across wyoming and montana may be the largest coal reserve on earth. Weve got 200 years worth of reserves cheap and right under our feet. No wonder coal generates half of our electricity. But heres the brutal part coal is twice as dirty as natural gas and puts more Carbon Dioxide in the air than all of our cars and trucks. In short, were caught between a rock and a hot place. You know, i noticed all of this coming out of the stacks. What is that . Thats good news. When you see a plume coming out of a stack of a power plant, thats vapor, and it basically says that this is the emissions have been cleaned. The Power Industry spent billions in the 1990s cleaning up much of the sulfur and nitrogen oxides that cause acid rain. But those pollutants are mere drops in a stream of Carbon Dioxide. Rogers says getting rid of the carbon will require a new federal law to limit emissions and a new technology to clean up coal. At the same time, he says duke will transition to more wind, solar, r power. Our goal line is substantially to reduce our carbon footprint, to decarbonize our business, by 2050. Four decades . Thats a long time. Well, it took 100 years to get to where we are, and we cant do this overnight. 2050 is too late. We will have guaranteed disasters for our children, grandchildren, and the unborn. Jim hanson is nasas top climate scientist. Hes credited with some of the earliest and most accurate projections on Climate Change. He thinks that rogers plan leaves the earth in the oven decades too long. We are going to have to phase out emissions from coal within the next 20 years if we hope to prevent climate disasters. Are you saying that we cant build any new coalfired power plants in this country . Absolutely, not only in this country, but in the world. This is not yet understood, that we are going to have to have a moratorium on new coalfired power plants within the next few years and phase out the existing ones over the next 20 years or so if we hope to preserve a climate like the one that has existed the last several thousand years. You know, jim rogers will hasten to tell you he does share your sense of urgency. Well, his plan doesnt match that. In fact, right now rogers is building two new coal plants. Youre talking a great game, but youre building coalfired power plants. I am. Following through on what is job one for me making sure my customers have affordable, reliable, clean electricity. And if we abandon coal at this point . We cant abandon coal. We have to find a way to keep it and use it in the future, and that means the ability to clean it up. [ticking] cleaning up coal would be expensive. So were talking about hundreds of billions to trillion dollars or so, and every power plant needs to capture its greenhouse gases. Wait, did i just hear you say a trillion dollars . A trillion dollars. With a t . With a t. Coming up on 60 minutes on cnbc. [ticking] when we made our commitment to the gulf, bp had two big goals help the gulf recover and learn from what happened so we could be a better, safer energy company. I can tell you safety is at the heart of everything we do. Weve added cuttingedge technology, like a new deepwater well cap and a stateoftheart monitoring center, where experts watch over all drilling activity twentyfourseven. 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[ticking] the plan to clean up Carbon Emissions involves something that the coal and Power Industries promote as clean coal technology. In fact, they say we cant live without it. We have to continue to advance new clean coal technologies. If we dont, we may have to say goodbye to the american way of life we all know and love. It is a seductive idea. Cleaning up the carbon would solve everything. And during the president ial campaign, both candidates endorsed clean coal. This is america. We figured out how to put a man on the moon in ten years. You cant tell me we cant figure out how to burn coal that we mine right here in the United States of america and make it work. Well, they did find a way to make it work. The problem is, clean coal makes putting a man on the moon look easy. The technology is called Carbon Capture and sequestration. We found the only place you can see it in america the Basin Electric Power Cooperative in north dakota. Basin captures half of its co2, but they didnt build this because of Climate Change. This is the Carbon Dioxide going into the ground. Long before anyone heard of Global Warming, basin was conceived in the Carter Administration to prove that america could use its own fuel, coal, and turn it into natural gas. They had to take the carbon out because it was an impurity. Before you started pumping it into the ground and into the pipeline, where did it come out . That stack right up there. Carbon capture takes the Carbon Dioxide, turns it into a liquid, and pumps it underground. Virtually everyone agrees industry, environmentalists, and politicians that this is the only way we know to make coal safe for the planet. But consider taxpayers built this for 1 1 2 billion in the 1980s. That would be four billion today. Dan kammen says Carbon Capture would be an enormous National Engineering project. Hes a berkeley physicist and top expert on energy. Can enough Carbon Capture and sequestration facilities like this be built in time to prevent Climate Change from coal . I dont think anyone knows the answer to that precisely. We know we have to try, and we know that these facilities do work. Whether we can build enough of them to preserve the coal industry as it is today i think is a question. How many coalfired power plants are there in the United States . We have hundreds of coalfired power plants. And each one of those would need one of these Carbon Capture sequestration plants. Thats right. Thats right. What are we talking about here in terms of infrastructure . So were talking about hundreds of billions to trillion dollars or so. And every power plant needs to capture its greenhouse gases. Wait, did i just hear you say a trillion dollars . A trillion dollars. With a t . With a t. Joe romm thinks a trillion might be optimistic romm ran alternative fuel projects in the clinton administration. He says the amount of co2 were talking about is mindboggling. If the world did this at scale, it would be the equivalent amount of co2 going into the ground as oil now comes out of the ground. So you have to recreate the entire oil delivery infrastructure of the planet, which was built up over a century, just to deal with this co2. Is it practical . That we dont know yet. No one has ever taken large volumes of co2 and stuck it in these deep underground aquifers and then measured and verified that it stays there permanently. I mean, after all, if it doesnt stay there permanently, if it leaks out slowly, its not saving the climate. Remember, we spent 30 years just trying to get one repository for nuclear waste, yucca mountain, and we havent succeeded. Now were gonna need dozens and dozens of repositories for co2. It is not impossible. What we need in this country is what i would call a Marshall Plan. We rebuilt the economies of japan and germany after world war ii. We need to rebuild our economy and transition it to a lowcarbon economy. We can do that, but its gonna take trillions of dollars to do it. Trouble is, there is a Marshall Plan today. [bell ringing] and its rebuilding wall street. Add to that congress projection of record federal deficits of 1 trillion. And it turns out not even the industry that warns of the end of our way of life is paying for it. How much as duke Energy Invested in Carbon Sequestration technology so far . We have not invested any dollars in the technology, per say. We have spent a lot of time and money reviewing and analyzing the various technologies. But come on. You admit to being the Third Largest carbon producer in the United States. You tell me that Carbon Sequestration is the future because we cant afford to live without coal. But then you tell me you havent invested any money in Carbon Sequestration. While we havent spent the money on sequestration technology, weve spent the time and energy, and that were gonna coinvest with the government when this technology evolves. If capturing carbon in the u. S. Is decades away, consider that china and india now put more carbon in the air than we do, and the chinese are opening coalfired plants at a rate of one a week. None captures its carbon. Now rogers has Broken Ground on his two new coalfired plants despite warnings from top scientists like nasas jim hansen. So when jim hansen says that to save the planet, we should stop building coalfired power plants today, you say what . I say, mr. Hansen, cant get done, wont get done. Weve got to keep our economy going. Weve got to make the transition. And im gonna do everything i can with the greatest sense of urgency to make the transition. But to do what you ask me to do now is just not doable. In his 2011 state of the union address, president obama called for 80 of the energy used in this country to come from clean technology, including clean coal, within 25 years. Meanwhile, jim rogers announced plans to merge his duke energy with progress energy, forming the nations largest power company. Thats this edition of 60 minutes on cnbc. Im steve kroft. Thanks for joining us. Captioning by captionmax www. Captionmax. Com a modern american miracle your neighborhood supermarket. 48,000 items under one roof. Oh, boy, its just like a playground of food. Youre looking at the abundance of america, in a way. Absolutely. Youve got to see what i found over here. A halftrilliondollar industry that touches us all. You are empowered to make. Somebodys day. Did you find everything you needed today . Take a deep breath, because were gonna wow you. A billion and a half dollars worth of groceries sold every day, reflecting what we want and who we are. Ill bet most people think th