The curtain. There may have been a time when people that monkeys would fly before trump took on his Scrappy Campaign team. The move today comes after weeks of that press and sinking poll numbers. While there are loyalists there is no love lost tween the manager and some advisors including Michael Caputo who tweeted along with this picture after the news broke. Caputo is now kaputo. He resigned after the tweet. This afternoon lewandowski did a round of interviews about his time in the campaign and his relationship with man of heard. Bringing in a professional like paul helped us grow the campaign and we need 10 more of these. The Campaign Needs to grow to a be successful. Everything that paul did for the campaign was one less thing i had to do and i am thankful for that. Our colleague will be on the show reporting this afternoon that paul plans to make Additional Campaign hires in the next coming days. Lets get to this key first question. Why did trump get rid of him . Mark after months of tension having to people trying to run the campaign, bickering over personnel decisions over how trump operates, Donald Trumps children and smothered visors and other advisors convinced him this had to be done now. It had to be done for the symbolism to reassure people they recognize they have a problem and it had to be done because paul was the right person as donald trump, junior told me today with the right experience to run a campaign that could not handle to people trying to run it. Mark if he did not run this thing on his own he was ready to walk away. This gives you a sense of just what a catastrophic last three weeks this has been in trump world. Donald trump this is a guy who has been loyal. Two people who have worked at him with him at senior levels. He did not want to get rid of corey who helped him win the nomination but it got so bad he had to make this choice. His children were involved. The other thing was the mechanical thing Going Forward. We do not know if he wants to run a Serious Campaign in the traditional sense. Or not, how much is he going to go down that road. Corey was not qualified to take him down that road. He could only do it with you she with corey. And much of the campaign occurs on the road with trump and trump was not in regular communication. It is difficult for anyone but corey to control or choose not to control what they did on on the road. They need someone to monitor his beaver every day. Trump is watching a lot of cable news, he is reacting, he is tweeting. They need his message this and to go up. With corey controlling the rhythm of the road access to trump on the road that was not going to change. That needs to change along with every other things. Theres always a problem between headquarters and the road. If they are in sync, things work well. If they are not in sync things are chaos. Whatever you want to say, whatever corey is saying about paul, paul came into this Campaign Thinking he was going to run it. He said i am the Campaign Manager even as corey had that title and corey insisted they were splitting the division of labor. It was passive aggressive and sometimes aggressiveaggressive. There is not a Winning Campaign that has that in a sustained way. This is not tenable. Mark every campaign had tensions but this had a lot. The two camps literally going to trump with Opposition Research on the other cap saying do you camp saying do you know this about this group, this is going to hurt us. You need surrogates. The Campaign Manager need be able to go on tv without someone sniping at them. I am not saying this will solve every problem but trump had to make a change for both substantive and symbolic reasons. Probably not too late. I he waited monopoly long time. Now the question is given the change is this going to have an impact on trumps fortunes . This is a nice turn into your own question. I think theres a chance this will change nothing. Nothing of importance. As much as the mechanical stuff is important to and you cannot win without having operations and doing advertising and doing data analytics, you need all that stuff the thing that is bedeviling the Trump Campaign is stuff that donald trump is saying. It is stuff that is offending large sections of the electorate. It is giving the Clinton Campaign ammunition. If trump will not change himself and i do not think is any evidence to suggest that trump recognizes he is killing himself by saying the things he says, if trump does not change it does not matter. If anyone who has managed the campaign saw where the Trump Campaign stood on fundraising, hiring, media, they would have a coronary. They would say if this were six months ago we would behind schedule. I do not notice it hence dark if he has a chance it is to have someone on the road get him to channel his extraordinarily externa gifts of medication toward talking about things Like Washington is correct, washington hates to change, hillary is the same old, same old. He has to talk everyday about the message. Not about trump university, not about peripheral issues. It is better than the track they are on. The things that have gotten him in the most trouble, the sustained attack over the course of the week and on judge curiel. A racist attack claiming a guy with hispanic lineage living in indiana is somehow disqualified because of his ethnic background and his reaction in a key moment after the orlando shootings, those things, i do not know if there is anyone who can control him. It is pretty simple. Maybe trump will not listen but if someone says here are the things you should talk about and hear the things she should not you should not talk about. I know you were on the line and you are upset that megyn kelly said this or John Heilemann said that, do not talk about at. About that, that is not on message. Maybe trump will not listen but up till now no one was trying. We do not disagree that the situation has a chance of being better than the situation was before. The reason they like corey so much trump likes being trump. Coming up, my extended conversation about the events of today. We will talk about new rules and the latest campaign for the new polls and the latest campaign for the contested gop condemned convention. How Hillary Clinton is handling this important moment. But first, these important from words from our sponsors. John along with dealing with the new Campaign Structure donald trump is facing a new threat of the contested convention. This is driven in part by a group of republican elegance who are still uneasy about trump. The group had Conference Calls including a big one last night. It frees the delegates to vote their conscience on the convention floor. The group had Conference Calls including a big one last night. They are reportedly starting to raise money for their effort. A lot of interest among republican elites. In all of this. How realistic is it to stop donald trump by letting elegance the delegates letting the delegates both their conscience . Mark if paul ryan, Mitch Mcconnell and especially those two guys, if they are two. Decide they were for this and would make a declaration that this was the state of where the party had to go it would be quite realistic. In the absence of open advocacy i do not think it stands very good chance. I do not think it is very grassroots. To answer your second question. Mostly elites are concerned about the future of the party. Republicans will have to campaign with donald trump remains donald trump. Those are the two answers. Mark trump talked about it over the weekend in a way that made me think he was a little concerned about it. I talked donald trump, junior. We will see that interview later in the show. He denounced it and went back to the main argument which is it takes away from the voters. And as you suggested if ryan and mcconnell got kind of publicly behind it publicly they would have a better chance but on the it has to be grassroots. It has to be a shadow thing led by the grass roots and supported behind the scenes and maybe at the last minute. It depends on what tribe trump does. A lot of elites, even some grassroots types will be persuaded, he is our presumptive nominee. He has made a change. Lets see if this produces a change to the campaign. If he continues to make mistakes they can do this at the last minute. Mark it only matters what truly matters what happens between now and the second week in july. I think youre right that it makes it less likely. If this change of leadership followed by a change of behavior that carries through in a sustained way over the next or four weeks i will still predict that trump will come back and say things are problematic for him politically but it might put some people at ease enough that it will allow him to be nominated. If this change happen today and there is this talk about a change and week from now he says something in the vein of what he said after orlando or what he said about judge curiel could increase the desire to make the change happened at the convention, to dump him at the convention. People will come to the conclusion that there is no way he will change and that will make it on survival for too many republicans. John it is an interesting question. If the parties nominate killed someone clearly they would find a way to change it. I was indicted. Or was indicted. Clearly trump has said things in the minds of delegates short of that. I do not think this movement can gain enough same that he can get it done during some additional developments. It is clear to me that there are hundreds of delegates currently are itching to try this and that can produce some messy conventions even if they are snuffed out. John there are other leaders who are balancing all these risks and benefits of where they should be standing publicly, where they should be standing privately. A lot of them are so deeply concerned about the prospect he would like to see this kind of grassroots thing take off on its own. That would give them a level of safety and cover to get involved at the convention and allow this to happen or engineer it in some way. If this two things could feed on each other, the grassroots getting stirred up and the leadership getting safety and taking action, you can see the whole thing get whipped up pretty fast especially if trump says something provocative. Mark there is no such white knight. It will not be ted cruz or mitt romney or anyone in advance. I think theres a fair of the delegates who would take mystery door number two regardless of who is behind it. Over donald trump. Theyll have imaginations and they can imagine who will be behind that door. Mark lets been the door and see a ticket of ryanrubio. We will take our chances. We will lose that race because we will be starting so far behind. They will can campaign without fear of being decimated. Mark donald trump, junior got hot that the voters will not prevail. There has been a muted reaction with the exception of trump himself over the weekend. Relatively muted reaction from his supporters. I wonder if because some of them are concerned about his behavior or they do not taken seriously. Normally you would see amongst in trump world even in social media you would see a pretty ferocious reaction. I have not picked that up. I think it falls more to the latter category. Theyre not taking this seriously. The establishment is dead. Our guy is time for now we will not worry about this. No one wants to run against trump. I think that is more of what is going on than that they are starting to worry. The diehards are still the diehards, the ones who love him. They are not worried about it. Mark it hangs on the balance, it depends upon performance. John later our interview with donald trump, junior. We will be right back. Mark we talked about the changing of the guard and i started out i asked him what voters should think about the change. It is a regular move toward unity. You have a campaign that is transitioning going from candidate to presumptive nominee to actual nominee and there is a great evolution in that. I joked last time i sat with you i was in politics for two weeks. Now it is five areas we have a lot more relationships with the teams. We are up against a very big machine and we need able that have those relationships, that have that experience. We have a Good Relationship with corey. We would we have had an incredible run, historic. You have seen that. To not only win the nomination but to do it at a level where you have the greatest voter turnout in gop history. It is pretty special but theres is a time when we have to move on and adapt and that time is now before the convention. Makes perfect sense. Mark your giving more authority to call. This phase requires someone with more relationships and president ial campaign experience. Mr. Trump that has happened already. The story is not necessarily news. This sets a precedent and shows were doing that my were making that shift and we are doing this as we want to unite the party and have everyone behind us which for the ultimate objective, beating Hillary Clinton. Obviously my father will be the guy who is in charge. You need one guy running the daytoday aspects of the campaign. To have more than that you will stumble stumble over yourselves. If there is one thing we pride ourselves on it is efficiency. Getting rid of the excess that is so prevalent in the system where you have all this waste. Those are the things we will get rid of. Mark there is a tradition of family members who are the only once in the candidate to do something. I have watched her father and corey develop a relationship. Isnt the case that you and your sister and your brother play some role in saying to your father that change is necessary . Mr. Trump we are involved, we speak to him every hour. Lexus is the appropriate decision to make. He will come to those decisions himself. No one will lead into the decision. It is how he built his business in talking to the construction worker, not the executive. He values their opinion. That resonates. Are we involved in talking with him, we have a great relationship with ari, he has done something that is incredible. I wish all separations of this nature went that well. Mark we were told that your judgment was that a change was required in you made the recommendation, that is what made him decide. In many respects he was coming to that on his own and we were there to augment that. And think it through. Mark youre taking away a guy who was a pretty big force. Are you concerned that coreys departure leaves a hole that will not be able to be filled right away . Mr. Trump between the people who have reached out to us, i think we will be great. We will be in a good spot. It will have a Great Campaign and i do not think it will be an issue. Mark spokespeople have denied it for weeks and as recently as this weekend. Doesnt that make people cynical, something that is obviously true . If someone comes in to take over a role there will be issues. That happens every day. That does not just happen on a political drill. I think that is daytoday stuff and that will happen. If it did not happen and it was not out there it would be totally abnormal. That will not be an issue Going Forward and we are going to run a Great Campaign as we have for the last year. Mark it has to be denied at the time, it makes people feel a little cynical. We can deny some of these gross allegations over this crazy infighting that was going on. If i did not know better i would think i was watching game of thrones. There is the difference between what is actual versus what is being reported. It is hard to fill a 24 hour new cycle. I get it. As exciting as this stuff can be for me it is not that exciting to average people. You have to create the storyline. I get it. I have seen it going on with the media since i got into this thing. What i can say is none of the stuff that has been reported and i have read about is not nearly as exciting and dramatic as it is in 140 characters or less on my twitter feed. Mark he did not want to admit it. He did say they recommended this in that is a pretty big deal. It is common in campaigns. You see often a decision needs to be made. The candidate is loyal to someone. It took the family to intercede and say this must be done. John heres the most important thing. There is a dispute in the world in people who report on this family. The last man know the first is still in question. Mark more from that interview later in the program. About a potential delegate revolt in cleveland. Well have that for you right after this. You guys be good. Ill see you later [ bark ] [ bark ] bye. See ya pal. Ever wonder what your pets do when you leave home . [ laughing ] aw you cutie pie. Aw. Aw. Aw. Aw. [ barking ] [ washing machine running ] partys on know what your pets are up to with xfinity home. Xfinity. The future of awesome. See the secret life of pets, in theaters july 8th. My strategy has been and it at some level was successful let trump trump. , you have a person who has completely changed the way that politics is viewed in this country for the better. He has had his heart and his finger on the pulse of the American People for a long time. I am a first has been help the him implement his ideas. Anybody to say that the family disagreed i do not think would be accurate. Mark that was the former Campaign Manager. Driving home his golden rule for it mr. Trump, let trump the trunk. This comes as Donald Trumps poll numbers are sleeping. Clinton is leading. Trumps unfavorable rating is 57 compared to clinton and 52. Joining us now, a republican pollster and stand greenberg in our d. C. Bureau. Thank you both for being here. Since youre here in the room we will start with you. How optimistic are you about the change that occurred causing substantial change in the overall outlook of the Term Campaign . Extra campaign wants to expand its operation. And the rnc will be helpful to its nominee. Mr. Trump is fulfilling some of those responsibilities. I believe that is that your sense that corey was an obstacle to getting things done . That is not for me to say. As a campaign expands sometimes you have to move it away from Central Location into the states. Other candidates have done this. Bill clinton got rid of dittmar said the convention when it was happening in july of that year. One loss and john kerry made a replacement. This is not new for campaign. I think your interview with donald trump, junior is telling. That is the best explanation one would have for what has happened. You were involved in to Clinton Campaigns in 1992 and 1996. I have seen some staff infighting. Is this the solution . If the solution is the operation of the campaign, is this the solution to what ails donald trump . Now. It could not be less important. If i think about the bill Clinton Campaign we cannot in january and the california primary. We were in negative territory in our favorability. Enormous trust problems but june was devoted to counter scheduling, defining him, introducing his biography, reminding people this was a humble guy from arkansas. The entire convention was devoted to presenting him to the country. It was a big moment for introducing him to the country. Here we are talking about organizational issues that do not at the heart of the candidate. We spend so much time leading up to that january thinking through how it was called the manhattan project. That is the time we are talking about two succeed in could our consolidating and winning. We talking about going the opposite direction. You look at the totality of the polls. A few weeks ago they were roughly even. Again there is not apples to apples but most of the National Polls show trump with the deficit. Where, demographically, does he need to go to get the race tightened up . Several places. One is among independents. Mitt romney did carry independents, but only by four points, and that is not enough to make up deficits among other groups, among africanamericans, hispanics, women where romney lost by double digits. Mr. Trump, because he is in a sense a true independent candidate himself, he can make a case to independents that hillary can to cannot, i am just like you, i have never been a politician. People say, you have to shore up the base before you can expand. He will do that. We are in a critical time right now, where there is no evidence that the voters want the race to remain where it is now, which is basically a substancefree, contentfree, nonconversation cacophony of who said what about whom. Usually, i bring the conversation back to real issues, and if i were donald trump, i would really have a conversation on the issues against Hillary Clinton. Mr. Trump, he also needs to shore up some working class voters who have been with him all along, and will continue to be, as Bernie Sanders continues to move away from challenging Hillary Clinton. If trump improves with independents, republican women, and workingclass voters, does this bring the race back to parity . No. Not if hes only doing it well, we are not going to parity. Why . Structurally, the country is in a different place than it was. Right now, the democrats have a 14point higher favorability than the republican party. The party is being defined by trump, and by the primary. Also, these voters have been watching trump over a long time. Look, during the primaries, general election voters, i think they admired what was happening with trump amongst primary voters. He was going up to 60 negative amongst general election voters during the primary process, and they were watching very closely. They were watching it very closely. They were. And they, he is doing with that, and his main problem is women. Right now if you look at the abc poll, the unfavorable with women is over 70 . 67 very unfavorable. You cant win the working class, when he majority of the White Working Class are women. So he has this core problem that just cannot be solved by picking up particular groups. Sure. We can have the same debate about Hillary Clinton. We could run the same segment and focus on Hillary Clinton s negative poll ratings. I was struck by your bloomberg poll last week. Everyone is so obsessed with the horse race numbers, but i look at over 70 of voters you survey that said each of the following bothered them. Hillary clintons fbi investigation, the handling of the server, and her making millions of dollars from wall street speeches. Thats over 70 . Most americans dont say, favorable or unfavorable. They say, you know what really bothers me . Im bothered that she is a tool of wall street now. I think the attributes show she is on trustworthy and unlikable, and that should not be dismissed, because they want to move this from a Hillary Clinton referendum, where it should be, to a referendum on donald trump. We will have you back again on the show. We have to go to break. Good to see you. We always have to get in attacking Hillary Clinton, whenever she is on the show. Thank you. Up next, if you are watching us in washington, you can listen to us on the radio at bloomberg 99. 1 fm. We will be right back. John and now for something completely similar, part two of my interview with donald trump junior. I talked about delegates trying to stage a revolt at the convention in cleveland next month. Mark as you know, a lot of talk over the weekend about this notion of the delegates being able to vote. Is this something you want to oppose . Donald you listen to the people. We have spoken about this on your very show, mark. You can go to pennsylvania and win every single gop voter, but give 17 of the 72 . Its a little ridiculous. The politicians dont always give what the people want. Theres a reason we had the mass turnouts. Theres a reason we had this movement, not a campaign anymore. People are sick of that nonsense. If they try to do Something Like that, it is a perfect example of d. C. As usual. John so on the specific question of, should they be allowed to vote with their conscience rather than be bound by the vote, you say you would oppose that . Donald , they have to go by what their people said, and their people spoke very loud, very clear in all the states, 37 states, against a recordsized crowd of people who have done this for years and years. That should say something. Its not about their conscience. Its the conscience of their people. So what paul ryan said over the weekend, they should be allowed to vote their conscience Donald Paul Ryan can say what he wants. When i say the d. C. People doing this, thats what upsets me, and everyone else i speak to about d. C. , whether that is other guys in similar positions to me, or bluecollar guys working hard for a living. They are sick of seeing that clause quasi, maybe we will do this, maybe this is what we will do. They are sick of politicians who have a job to do, running for reelection in 2020 or 2024, and thats happening with a lot of these guys. Mark your father sewed up his nomination sooner than Hillary Clinton, and in that time he has gone from being a little ahead to some polls to being pretty much behind in some polls. Today, down seven. What happened to cause him to move from an even position to a little behind, recognizing there is time left . Donald you have obama getting each is about him, hillary giving speeches about him, biden and speeches about him. The left is doing the unified attack, but the message will dial away when you get into all the corruption, all the nonsense, all the place, fraud waste, fraud, and abuse. When people start actually covering it. I think that goes away. They will be ebbs and flows. For us being first time politicians, that transition would i love for it to be smoother . Sure. But everyone underestimated us, every step of the way, and we have always surprised them. We will do that again. Mark you say you will come back . Donald i dont think we are 12 points behind. We are neutral in a lot of places, in a lot of places that matter. There are states we are not going to win, and the swing states, the gap is much closer from what i have seen and read, and i think we will change that. We will have a unified message now, and we will work well with the gop, which would have been doing, creating that relationship. This is all part of the process. I saw polls for months. Since july of last year, they said there is exactly is your percent chance he could win the nomination a 0 chance he could win the nomination. I dont give credence to the polls this early. Are messages about the American People, about jobs, about getting rid of the nonsense that prevails over washington. Theres a reason 40 Million People voted for him in a historic primary. Theres a reason bernie put, against the anointed one, put forward an unprecedented show. People are sick of the d. C. Narrative. They are sick of watching politicians like Hillary Clinton, who from 2070 2014 made 140 million when 2007 to 2014 made 140 million when running the state department. Our government is not hedge fund their hedge fund. It is a disgusting fraud, and if a republican did what she did, they would be in jail by now. Mark look towards the camera and address two types of people what would be your message be to republicans who are trying to change the rules, to make the convention more open, not just a coronation of your fathers victory . Donald republicans trying to change the rules need to listen to their people. We are in this place, and it is both republicans and democrats. People are not happy with government, not happy with d. C. The notion of, i dont prescribe to all 10900 and 99 10,999 points of conservative dogma, thereby you cannot be a conservative. I dont think thats the average general election voter. We should listen to the people for a change, and put someone in who is not known for the same old, same old. Mark and what is your message to the folks across the river in brooklyn, in clinton headquarters to the late who of late have been confident . Donald im glad they are confident. Iowas like to be underestimated. We have been underestimated in every way. They have a team of 875 people to our 70, and we are doing pretty good. Their waste, fraud, and abuse is just a continuation of the clintons waste and fraud and abuse of the decades. They will not run this country any differently. In obamas own words, she will tell you anything, and nothing with action change. Thats not going to change, miraculously now, a different hillary than we have seen the last 25 years, a different Clinton Organization that will not be correct or fraught with scandal. Give me a break. Its the same thing over and over again. Mark so your dad is going to win . Donald he is. Mark so lets and with the voters. People who are really for stopping Hillary Clinton the trunk campaign is stronger now than before, because why . Donald we are getting to the general election, getting to whe independents, people who are totally against washington, totally against the establishment on both sides, can finally china and for a person who chime in for a person who is exactly that, who has not milk the government for decades to personally enrich himself. He someone who brought jobs, whether it be building, construction, all these things, hes the only guy who assigned the front of the paycheck year. Everybody else, they talk about job creation like they know how its done, and they never created one. It is all theory, not practice. Time to put someone who actually practiced it in real life, instead of over and over and over again, for 40 years. Let him be in charge. Let him do it. Let everyone agree to it. The other side, you are not going to get anything different with the other guys, just a new batch of the same old, same old. We are not the same old, same old. We will continue to make mistakes i dont think he will continue make mistakes, he will be himself, he will be trump, and that generally has gone very well for him his entire life. Mark thanks to donald junior, trump junior. Up next, our trump reporter mike bender opens his notebook on Todays Campaign drama, right after this. John joining us now from our washington bureau, a man u who a man on the team who has been all over the trump stories today, bloomberg senior political reporter michael c. Bender. Look at him there, in all his glory. [laughter] tell me this. How much do you think, on the basis of what we currently know, that this is a trump capitulating to pressure, versus trump embracing what might come next by those who put the pressure on him . Mike i think its more of the latter here. Corey lewandowski has been in trouble, hanging on basically since iowa. The first time trump tried to fire him, the people around trump wanted lewandowski out, was after the iowa loss. Trump doesnt hundred feet handle defeats well. That was the first he lost, and he has been hanging on ever since, largely in part to his aggressive personality that trump identifies with. But the loyalty only go so far, and for trump, family is a much bigger issue, a much bigger question than any longterm loyalty to corey. Mark what is your sense of how this has been reacted to so far by republicans unhappy with the direction of the campaign . Mike they promised this pivot before. This gives trump the chance to pivot to a broader campaign. He picked the seasoned political veteran, paul menard manafort, who has experience in both domestic and international politics, versus lewandowski, the iressa irascible former state police officer. The message is trying to reach out to a broader electorate in the general election. But this is something republicans have heard time and again now, and that we have heard for a week, particularly from rnc members, activists in their own states who can trigger their own grassroots campaigns back there, that they regret resting trusting manafort when he came to them in april and said, here comes your pivot. And what have we seen since then . The veterans news conference, trump university. You guys know the list. It is lengthy. John mike, it seems the pivot is, what was promised was a pivot of two kinds. One, an operational pivot to be competitive in a general election, and the other was a message pivot, a demeanor pivot, president ial a more projecting a more president ial affect. It seems trump wants a president ial operation, but does he need to change the image and the words coming out of his mouth . Mike its hard to say. Only thing i can say is that we will see. My colleague, jennifer jacobs, and i interviewed trump a couple weeks ago in his new york office. One thing we brought up was the teleprompter. Everybody wanted him to be more scripted, what you are saying, a more disciplined message, and he dismissed it out of hand. We have seen him use the teleprompter in speeches, but he made a point of saying, im never going to use those for a rally. If i go to a teleprompter at these rallies, people will go to sleep, they will stop coming if i am boring. So definitely corey was trumps id when it comes to the messaging and the combativeness, but that is trump, too, so we will see how long this last. John mike, go out there and find out what family neighbors helped push corey out, and think their father has to change in terms of what is presented to voters. Mike bender, thank you very much. We will be right back. John need more . Check out bloombergpolitics. Com for a lot more on the news in trump world today. On bloomberg west, emily chang speaks to the ceo of zte usa. Tomorrow, more from donald trump junior, including his thoughts on who his father will take as running mate. And we have to talk about the nba finals. Mark see you tomorrow. Same time, same channel. Until tomorrow, sayonara. Im Rishaad Salamat and mrs. Trending business. This is trending business. We will take you to tokyo this hour. The biggest rally in three months as the yen gets his strongest level in nearly two years. It is the end of the socalled brexit bounce. The referendum is too close to call with two days to go. He hopes britain will stay in the eu