I will speak with pandoras founder. Congress asks to take a look at two Fantasy Sports unicorns. Will draft kings and fan duel survive the scrutiny . To our lead. Dell in talks to buy the Enterprise Storage system company, emc. A deal may be completed as soon as next week. But it would be pricey, complicated. Dell is speaking to banks about raising 40 billion to finance the purchase. It would involve taking emc private and taking over the controlling stake in vm ware. Why do it . A deal would unite two companies coping with slowing demand. Our special guest host has a long history of experience and opinions in Silicon Valley. Now founder and ceo of social capital. Great to have you on the show. You made a lot of noise about diversity in d. C. First, i want to talk about dell and emc. Expensive, complicated. What is your reaction to this . I think it is a necessary step. I think the thing that emc is struggling with is two things. One is you have a fertilization business which they own through vm ware, which is under duress. And at the same time because you have competitors like microsoft. And in your storage business you have new startups like pure storage went public yesterday, who are driving all of this conversion to flash. So, youre basically getting attacked on both sides. If youre able to be private, you probably have the time to really recapture the Growth Engine of that business, rationalize the workforce, figure out how to streamline. Emily are we seeing something here that is indicative of the broader trend, old tech versus new tech . Chamath that is the most interesting point. This is indicative of a pattern for the future. You start at the point where you are the young upstart, there is lots of growth, you are breaking new ground. At some point there is this era of stagnation where you are a cash cow. Then there has to be rationalization. You cannot do that as a public company. Emily are you a bubble or no bubble guy . Chamath there is a handful of extremely overpriced unicorns. Unless these metrics hold, it will be difficult for us to look at every other unicorn that is able to raise money in their tailwind and ask yourselves, if that company is not worth what we thought it was, what is it mean for all these other companies . Emily are you seeing signs behind the scenes that things are going south . Chamath yes. So, what i am seeing are companies who come out with these extremely exorbitant expectations on valuation or fundraising. So, they go to the market. The same people that six months ago would be writing 200 million checks are passing. When that happens, what they do is they say, you know what . Weve decided to raise it in nine months. That is code for we were not able to sell this bill of goods. Emily how many unicorn zombies are going to be seeing . Chamath they are all probably very Good Companies at some level. But that valuation is going to be a noose for 20 to 30 of them. Emily those unicorns will turn into zombies. Chamath it is a retrade on value. Lets take a company right now that is going through some tribulation. Raised money at a big valuation. I think that is a great service. Especially for people trying to consume and digest loss of information, it is valuable. Emily is it the future . Chamath it could be a company if it is worth 300 billion. Emily i do want to ask about apple because i love hearing your thoughts on apple. You are here with your new rose gold iphone. I also have a rose gold iphone. Im surprised to see you in one. With one. You came out two years ago with this controversial oped saying steve jobs would have and should have bought tesla. And tim cook is milquetoast, say nothing, uninspiring tweaker ceo. Chamath that was probably a little over the top. Emily ok, now that we know that apple is proceeding on his plans to make cars. Chamath so exciting. Emily what is your view on apple today, and tim . Chamath we have used that company. We have been running an internal Public Equity Fund for while. And whenever we think about holding cash, we actually hold apple. For us, it is sort of like the equity of last resort. So, we think that is going to be there forever. My biggest thing is how do you grow as a 500 billion company to 1 trillion or more . You have to attack multihundred billion dollars segments of the economy. When i heard that apple is trying to build a car, i was so excited because youre talking about them redefining transport along with elon and tesla. A. I. It is so interesting now again for me to be an equity holder and that company. Emily so it is not a milquetoast ceo, tim cook today. Chamath i said that not knowing him. I apologize to tim. I got the clicks. I think those guys are slowly doing the work that is necessary. They have a shot of not going through an emc trajectory emily i want to ask you about something else. The two Biggest Companies are in the crosshairs of the sec. Fanduel and draft kings have been facing questions over how much internal data employees have access to and whether that data can help those employees win on other sites. Congress has asked the sec to investigate the two companies. Fan duel and draft kings have banned employee from playing for money. Last week, an employee won 350,000. I know you love your poker. I want to know what you think about this story. It sounds like insider trading. Chamath we have looked at this a lot. We looked at a couple companies. We had opportunities to invest in them. We looked at poker. The problem is that people believe that there is a definition of something called skilled based gaming, that creates the safe harbor. This is just like securities trading. We are seeing this play out. If this were not the fantasy mock draft of an nfl game but it was a handful of traders at a Bank Understanding forward flows of cash, they would be arrested and they would go to jail. I think the thing is, when you are allowing the public to participate in this thing, and we know that only 1 of these people make the money, it is unfair that we are not governing this with a system of rules in the same way we protect the equity markets. From being rigged and taken advantage of by a handful. I think it is basically the same thing. This is the tip of the iceberg were you keep pulling the thread and the doj and the sec will realize they have to do something to make sure this does not get out of control. Emily it is definitely something we will be watching. The founder of social capital partners. You will be with us for the entire show. Youre behind a big new study in diversity in Venture Capital. The numbers are staggeringly horrible. We will talk about that. Also coming up, sometimes liking something isnt enough. Facebook started publicly testing new options besides the thumbs up. New emojis cover angry, sad, wow, ha ha, yay and love. Emily it is no surprise that diversity among Top Companies in Silicon Valley is lacking. While tech giants like apple, facebook, google have been taking fire for not hiring enough women and minorities, the staff in Venture Capital are even worse. Way worse. Social capital is out with a study on gender, ethnicity and age diversity. With a somewhat controversial ranking system based on those measures. Still with me, our guest from social partner capital. I want to start with you. Look, this is not surprising. It may be surprising just how bad it is. What are the trends that were most surprising to . To you . Chamath what will were trying to do is document to figure out what makes firms great, and what are they doing when they are successful . There are two major takeaways we saw when we went a collected this data to try to tease out things that we have the firm should be doing. The first one is that there is a very clear correlation with returns and the age of the investing partner. What is interesting is that most of the great exits, all of the money that is ever been returned to investors over the last 40 years, has all been generated by people between their early 30s and late 40s. What that told us is, we need to make sure we are being really generative really quickly. When we are in our late 40s, we should be guiding people. We should not be taking up all the economics and preventing young, talented people. The second big take away was around the diversity of thought that leads to great outcomes. When we looked at the things that we have done that have frankly been really successful for us, they were all done in ambiguity. Nobody could agree. When we looked at who these people were, we saw this beautiful collection of different people, men and women from different backgrounds, who helped us get to what ultimately turned out to be a good decision. That was the lightning rod that said consensus is really bad. Emily lets talk about the numbers. 92 of top vcs are men, compared to 77 of leadership in Technology Companies in general. Four black vcs. 1. 3 hispanic. Why is it this way . I think when you think about historically what has been successful in this community, its a community that has historically been dominated by older white men. At one point, younger white men. He hit it. When something has been working for you, the notion that homogeneity breeds success is a misnomer. But if you been doing something and have been successful in a while, why change . Whereas, i think if you look at what is happened in the Tech Industry at large and the change we have seen in the last 20 years, the amount of innovation, i would say vcs are not keeping up. What successful in tech has far surpassed the pace of vcs. Chamath we are supposed to be the ones that are controlling the capital to the disruptors. The disruptors are controlling the vcs. Emily lets talk about this ranking system, where you are at the top. Social capital is number one. Benchmark 22. Sequoia 30. Andreisenhorowitz 37. Chamath we did this with a great team who did all this work. When you look at the ranking of the firms that did the best, it is smaller firms like cowboy ventures, people who have taken it on themselves to create a diverse situation where different people can make interesting decisions together. We were fourth or fifth on the list. Emily well, so, some people ive been talking to other vcs nobody wants to talk on the record. Is this list fair . You are at the top. Chamath the ranking methodology was not ours. That is what apple, facebook, and google use. All of this, by the way, is published in the open source. Anybody can quibble with the methodology. It is irrelevant. The real question is what drives longterm returns . It is very clear that age is fundamentally correlated with returns. We know that because the data is out in the open. It is transparently available. Go to vcdiversity. Org. You can download the source and see the same conclusion. But the second thing is that i think we are now starting to see enough data point aspect, floodgate, battery where now ycommentator who is the top for firms under 1 billion. There is a perception that we are the ones doing well. In five years as we start to publish on returns, and that makes it even more of a commitment to me. Our firm will publish a returns. And we will show you that having a different, Interesting Group of people will generate massively outside returns. Emily but lps are still giving money to the obvious suspects. There are two things going on. Number one, one of the things both share in common is they are in fact born and bred of byte this era. If we talk about social capital, if we talk about floodgate, if we talk about cowboy, aspect, many of them are bred of a new generation of entrepreneurs who stepped out of traditional firms and into a new model of investments. Keep in mind, i think one of the things that lps, i think of them as a lagging indicator. Like the people they put money in, they will be the last follow. But when they follow, it is a very important signal. Emily so, what is going on with ford lists. This is your effort to get more women and people of color on board. It is correlated in his effort. What did we do . We went out and we went to leading vcs and said, even if you cannot solve the issue of diversity in your own firm, you are 100 capable of solving diversity on all the boards you fund. The board list is comprised of vc operators nominating women for tech boards. It is as incumbent upon Venture Capitalists to not look to the excuses of their own lack of diversity to not put women on the boards of their companies that is one thing they can control today. Chamath can i take also why it is important . It is important today and that we need to start this war on good ideas versus bad ideas. There are just so many things right now that we should be spending our time fixing. Cancer, an educated humanity. Why are we not finding the types of people who find those problems interesting, who have the patience and the capital and the Risk Appetite to put that stuff together . So, another reason why this change is important is that a different class of people, olderyounger, different complexions, also look at harder problems and say, lets solve structural inequity because it is a more interesting problem than brownies at 11 00 p. M. Emily you also have a great oped. Which i highly suggest reading. You are sticking with us. Thank you so much for stopping by. No problem. Emily pandora is buying ticketfly for 450 million. Did the Music Streaming Service over pay . We will speak with the founder. Emily now to pandora buying ticket fly for 450 million. Pandora shares closed down 7 today. Some analysts thinking pandora overpaid for this deal. It provides ticketing for events like burning man. Joining us now, Tim Westergren founder of pandora. An early investor in pandora back in the day. Tim, you know, stuff you have been talking about for a long time, which is getting into the live events business. But why does this make say and and why was the price tag the way it was . Tim it was the center of the bullseye for us. Our company is set up to connect fans. If you are musician, the place you like your money is in my performance. That is a huge problem for musicians. How do i get people to see me when im not being played on broadcast radio . Pandora has a gigantic audience of people about whom we know a lot. We have a sense of their location. It is really the perfect funnel to bring people to live events. Just aligns perfectly with our mission. Emily it is a completely different business for you, though. Michael packer came out saying we see little value add for pandora beyond promoting artists and pandora has limited experience in hosting concerts. Tim it is not a different business. Our business is connecting artists and fans. We are not getting into the events business. We are getting in the ticket discovery and delivery business. It lays on top of our existing capabilities and what we do well. Chamath seems like you are building a stack of experiences. You have the listening experience on the phone, and now youre going to connect. That to the live expense walk us through that trail of bread bread comes. What comes after that for you . Tim it does start with listening. Radio remains the dominant form of listening, and pandora 10 of all listening in the u. S. They are connected. We are on the web. We are a onetoone relationship. We can communicate with people. We can create the destination where all things can happen. You start by hearing a band youve never heard before that you love. How do we make it easy for you to discover they are playing someplace nearby . To join the fan club, to get special communications from them. It just is so easy for us to turn that into a marketplace, where artists, fans and venues can meet. It is going to be lets check all those boxes. Emily how would this change my pandora experience personally . Im a big user. Am i going to be hearing ads for concerts . Can i thumbsup when i hear an ad and get a ticket get right away . Tim maybe the simple way to illustrate his you are walking down the street in San Francisco monday. Here a tune by blues traveler. When it ends, john poplars voice comes on, saying hey, im playing at the fillmore tonight. Tap the button to buy a ticket. That gives you a taste for how you can make this seamless. Chamath what do you think happens with apple, spotify, everybody else that is loosely now around space this in the absence of something that can connect to the offline experience . Tim everyone is going to look to create a complete music experience. They do seem to be blending and merging. Ondemand is trying to move in to radio. I think the winner here in this space is the one that can aggregate the largest audience, know them well, and make the rest of the experience easy and intuitive. That makes it simple and easy. Emily the ceo behind apple music had some harsh work words yesterday saying its built on the back of artists. They are stealing revenues that should be going to the artists. The artist have to kill themselves by going on the road. What is your response to that . Do you foresee a day when artists are not making most of their money on live event . Tim it is an emotional topic. I will answer that two ways. One, online radio pays half its revenue in royalties to artists. Secondly, it is a connected environment to do no people, you can talk to them, build fan bases. That is the future. Emily by the way, tim mentioned that pandoras 50 women, which is great news. Tim westergren of pandora. Thanks so much for joining us. We will be back tomorrow with the jobs movie which is out in theaters tomorrow. Announcer from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Charlie megyn kelly is here. She anchors the kelly file. She led the gop debate on fox news. It was viewed by a record 24 million people. Her tough questioning of donald trump provoked a public feud that has lasted four months. For months. The gop front runner directed insults at her