Driving the beauty and power while trying to redefine the world of fashion. M agreed has partnered with one of the most famous families in hollywood. Shes chief executive and cofounder of Good American, which she launched in 2016 with khloe kardashian. She is also the Founding Partner of skims alongside chloes sister, kim. Emma as a young black female entrepreneur, the only thing i could do was what i know from my experience in the truth is, i didnt set out to create a company that was deeply rooted in the principles of inclusivity and diversity. I set out to make a company right for me. Francine in this episode i speak to emma about her rise to the top, how she measures success and why diversity remains elusive in the world of fashion. Thank you so much for joining us on bloomberg. Emma thank you for having me. Francine you represent so much for so many people. All the businesses youve touched turned into turn into gold. Did you ever think you would be such a success . Emma no, most of the businesses i touched in the earlier days didnt turn to go. I love this idea of older overnight success in i would love to perpetuate that, but there has been a lot of trial and error along the way and i feel like ive probably done every job imaginable from having a paper route when i was 12 to working in a deli, to working in shops and starting things that were less successful in things that had medium success. I feel like it has been a long journey and im thankful that now im 41 years old and im starting to see that this type of success is really great. Francine you always wanted to succeed, is at would actually actually makes success . Emma i think so. I think there is an element of luck in any of these things. When you take apart what luck means, i really leave when opportunity meets preparation, i was always prepared. When my opportunity came along i was ready to work for it. Then there is that old adage of a lot of hard work and i had to really put the time in. Francine did you always want to be an entrepreneur . Emma if you wouldve asked me when i was a kid, i came from east london and i did not know anyone who had their own business, everyone that i knew went to work to pay their bills with usually very little joy. Even the idea of doing something that felt purposeful, meaningful or something you enjoyed wasnt part of my understanding. I tried really hard to get close to what it is that i love, which is the fashion business, but i didnt ever think about starting my own thing. I think it came out of a necessity. I was like, who would employ me and pay me what i think i deserve. I left the company because i said, they are not paying me properly so i will have to pay myself. Francine age 24 and that was the determination of making something. Emma i felt like i was adding a lot of value. I think so people in their careers have this feeling, adding a lot of value and im not being renew many renew or did for what i bring to the table. What do you do at 24 . You dont really have that many options. So i did what a lot of people do, i went to a company and tried to do my best at the position that i was given. Thankfully somebody saw that and decided, maybe we will set this girl up on her own. But i talked to so many either young people that i employ are people that are trying to get noticed that i think its good advice. No one is ever going to look at you to do the next thing unless you are excelling where you are today. Sometimes, just buckling down and doing the absolute best job wherever you are is the best way to get ahead. Francine making the step of leaving, you have to be brave and its not always easy. Emma it wasnt always easy. I remember the first time i got a little bit of backing and they said, you are going to be in charge of your own p l and i broke it down and i googled that, like what is that. Sometimes naivety is the best thing for any entrepreneur. I didnt know what i didnt know what i had to learn fast and fail fast that i think ive done, throughout my career, i havent made the best choices every time, but i think art of being a good entrepreneur is knowing when things are not going right in knowing and ive surrounded myself with the right people continuously. Francine whats the biggest mistake youve learned from . Emma what i had my first agency and i was killing it in. There was this idea that the company was completely exportable. I went to the u. S. Opened an office in new york in the office went well, than i failed miserably, under infested, did not bring the right people in, that whatever i was doing would translate and i and it didnt. I learned that the hard way by starting something, dragging people there and having to close it. Theres nothing like an embarrassment to humble the soul. I packed everything up and had to pack my own office. That was fantastic learning, but i never let it break my spirit. I really truly took those learnings. When i started my Second Company in l. A. I was like, this is where i need to do something different, so i packed up my family and moved to l. A. I knew if i was going to do something it would be successful. I would need to do it myself and i would need to be in the country and give it my absolute all. Francine is that giving time to understand the market . It was difficult to do it from not being in the city . Emma being in country, being part of that fabric of culture has been important, especially for my business Good American that is about whats happening at the moment, like, where are we in society as women, where is fashion, and i think that has been important. Francine thats a bold move actually selling denim to americans. Emma i actually doubted myself and me. But again, coming to a business with mission and purpose at the heart of what we do is what sets us apart. I think there are so many brands, but how do consumers make choices these days . We make our choices based on what we believe in, what we want our children to see. I am the mother of four, so i know too well that i dont want my daughters wasting time thinking about how much they weigh, what they look like, and i think fashion has done a terrible job of reinforcing the unrealistic tea idea. With Good American the premise of the brand was to say, we will make close for all women, we will let women make choices and we will take some of that pain out of what it means to be left out of the conversation or not represented in fashion. And weve done that pretty well, i think. Francine you had this idea of making women feel good. Who do talk about it with first . Emma funny enough, my husband. I think we are both entrepreneurs. Its natural for me to bounce any idea backwards and forwards with him. I have worked for years in the fashion business. I have been a part of the problem, its like i have seen firsthand how some fashion businesses make women feel. Theres one thing being really focal, and being an instagram activist and talking about something, theres a difference of putting your money where your mouth is and doing something about the problem, thats what i did with that business. It was about how to take everything i know and ive learned and do the opposite. I think as a young black female entrepreneur, the only thing i could do was what i know from my experience. The honest truth is, i did not set out to create a company that was deeply rooted in principles and inclusivity on diversity. I wanted to make a company right for me and my friends. I knew if i had a problem, chances are somebody else does. Thats where so many businesses are created, when you are solving a problem that works for you and the consumer. Francine is there danger that entrepreneurs will look for a gap in the market . Emma thats one way to approach things. I go with my gut. My gut instinct tells me a lot and i tend not to go against my gut. I would be lying if i said i didnt run numbers and feel like there was commercial opportunity. Nobody makes 19 sizes of anything without thinking, i reckon i can sell them along the line. I think so much more of what ive done has been in response to a feeling that ive had and then acting on that feeling. Emma francine were you surprised by how many other people felt like you . Emma its one of those things that on paper, Good American has been such a massive success, but if you go back to day one, everyone is like, you sold a Million Dollars in day one. 9 00 i was the hero, 11 00 i had no stock left and everyone was like, you have no idea what youre doing, do you . And that was my first lesson in what it means to be excellent because i just started emailing people and i was like, how long do i think people will wait. Turns out, not that long, not as long as it would take me. I was like, can you help me get more fabric, will you aid weight weight eight weeks for a peer of genes . Somewhere worked out but what people respond to his brands that have authenticity. Theres a level of honesty thats needed. I said, we had no idea how popular and how much this was going to chime with customers. If you could just be patient, we will get you something. Turns out we know we messed up and we dont want to disappoint you. Theres a part of that honesty that really challenges people. We knew they knew we did not feed a line. It was not written by pr because i cannot afford pr at that time. How i speak to my mom or something. Francine emma attempts to break one of the last taboos in fashion and how success is making her reassess what it means to be an entrepreneur. Francine emma has made a fortune by founding inclusive companies. Good american is the biggest launch in history when it made 1 million in sales on its first day. She tells me about her success in the challenges that were made across the industry. Fashion hasnt done enough when it comes inclusivity and diversity, but hasnt done something in the last five to 10 years . Emma fashion, as quick as it is to change, like in this kind of aesthetic, its very difficult to change a system. I think that comes down to who makes decisions. The people that make decisions in fashion dont typically look like me, they are not typically women. When you look at whos at the helm of the biggest players, it tends to be the same type of people. So i honestly think theres a lot of work to be done, progress has definitely happen, but you only have to look at new york fashion week, which is the biggest and most commercial to see there so much tokenism around what inclusivity really means. And i think that, especially when it comes to size, we are back where we were 20 of 30 years ago when we had one single model menu locked down the catwalk. Now we are in a situation where i cant remember. Its less than 3 of models that came down the catwalk were above a size 12. A size 12 is less than average. Theres so much work to be done and it is the last allowed taboo. We are allowed to disclose people because of their size. Its really crazy. Francine i was reading something where people feel rubbish because they dont feel represented and they feel something is wrong with them. Emma thats the reason i started the brand because if you go back seven years ago i was pregnant with my second child, a girl, and i really felt that deeply, like how much time and effort you can spend and waste time. To me its like, if you take out some of that worry and the strife around how much we think about our looks, and instead put our energies into saying, i need a pay raise, i think i should do Something Else with my life, part of it was like, what happens if you shift and change the paradigm of how people see themselves . Its a really trite sentence, but representation matters. When you see a version of yourself, there is a level of acceptance. I want to level the Playing Field and say, we all look different, we all are different and thats ok. Thats not what we should be thinking about. We should be thinking about equal pay. Those of the things we should use our time for as women. Lets just get an equality going then. And that is throughout the workplace and all of the industries. I feel like is such a huge impact on us, and i dont just mean fashion media, i mean the media at large. We need better representation everywhere in society. Francine is that why you are doing dragons then . Emma you asked that i think about being an entrepreneur and i never thought about being an entrepreneur. As i got more successful i thought a lot about what it means to be an entrepreneur because they talk about it being small at the top but its not. Its minuscule. Its the same people doing the same deals, giving each other money who all went to one of five or six schools. To me, because im on shark tank in the u. S. The idea of dragons den and that you could be an archer per nearer with your background and absolutely no access to funding and getting a check to do something that mean something to you and can mean something to your family, why win it you . It wasnt so long ago that i was out fundraising. If i could be a small part of somebodys journey that wouldnt usually get the opportunity, to me it makes sense. Its not just about women of color. If you didnt have the means or the education to know anything differently than getting up and going to work every day, that does it mean to say you cannot have a successful business, i am like walking proof of that. I left school and i was 16 years old and i have done pretty well. To me its about leveling the Playing Field and i love the idea of being seen on tv and people having that idea that they can be successful if they just get an opportunity opportunity. Francine in the u. S. There is a badge of honor of trying and failing again and starting again, i dont know if there is a stigma in the u. K. , but people are less old. Emma i dont think they are less bold, we are different here, we dont celebrate. I find it difficult because i feel like i am so celebrated, especially where im from. People in london are nice to me. Two girls came up to me in this office and said they loved me, high five. Things are shifting. When im all about is celebrating people. It doesnt all work out but thats part of life. I think we have to be honest with ourselves about what it takes and how hard it is. Francine its hard because you need to build a team around you, you need funding. What have you found hardest . Emma if im really honest, probably the funding. Without the right background and circles around you, access is really difficult. I raised my first check for my clients because i built a business in the fashion media. So i had lots of clients. The only rich people i knew were clients of mine that had been paying me retainers. So that was the easiest way. I was like, hi, remember me, would you like to give me 3 million . Most of them said no but a couple of said yes. Just knowing where to go in the beginning, they are the barriers that most people face. But once you are in it, i think that it is so much about the journey. None of this stuff happens like it does on social media. I think just knowing that you are on a journey actually, i think the best way to start a business is with no money, you dont need to go out and raise tons of finances, you need to figure out what it my creating, where is my audience and one of my uniquely good at. When you figure out what you are good at, you know who you need around you to make something work. Francine kris jenner was part of your journey. How did that shape the entrepreneur you are . Emma i think i have been lucky to be surrounded by so many incredible entrepreneurs, starting with my clients, also my husband, being around people like chris, and also just having access and listening and watching brilliant people as i grew up. I am one of those people who can learn from anything. I read books about being an entrepreneur before i even really knew what one was. I really is someone who would take from any situation. Francine emma tells me why diversity is a superpower and what shes doing to try to prove access and opportunity. Francine emma is known as the Founding Partner of skims with kim kardashian. It was valued at 4 billion last year. I continued the conversation by asking about the business and her commitment to supporting diversity and black owned companies. Skims is huge. Did you ever think you would have an underwear shaping company . Emma skims has grown so unbelievably. That is Kim Kardashians company, it was her idea from the outset, i honestly believe that we never thought that it would just be one thing. We always thought about it as being this huge company that would do lots of things. Again, that company was based on just doing one product really, really well. I think thats testament to any great company. We had so much focus in the beginning. We were like, we will make superior shape where in every sumo size and color and it worked out incredibly well. Francine when is the right time to either grow or go into a slightly Different Branch . Emma in Good American, the first time we ever thought of going into another category was because customers asked us to. Ethic its a really smart way to think about your growth in your development in a business. You really have to listen and you cannot take that commentary just the good things. Your customers will tell you what you need to hear, they will also tell you what you dont want to hear and its like a big mirror. Thats one of the things with social media thats so important in business now because its just a reflection of everything you are doing, a reflection of your consumer base. If you listen carefully, the data will tell you things. All you need to do is tune in. When i think about the category expansion, it really is in regards to or in relation to what customers are asking me for and we make those decisions based on that. Francine how do you build a team that can say its not a great idea . Emma ethic i spent 25 of my time hiring. I would take speculative meetings even if i dont have a position that is available because you are only as good as your team. And to do what i do, you have to surround yourself with experts like people that are really, really good at what they do. Part of that is being able to stand up to you and you being able to listen. So, when i think about myself as a leader, i really lead with empathy because i need people to say to me, that is a bad idea or based on my experience because my experience is limited. Francine do you think its different being a leader in 2024 than 2004 . Emma 100 because the workforce has changed immeasurably. We think postpandemic, also the generation we are dealing with is entirely different and you have to create a company that can succeed with the workforce that it has at its disposal. Francine younger . Emma younger people have a different expectation of their life, their work and how those two things fit together. Like it or not, covid changed the working environment forever. You either adapt or die. I might have a certain opinion about how i want people to come into a space, into a business. At the end of the day, you have to work with where the culture is at and im not here to fight the culture. It is what it is, how do we work to maximize this because at the end of the day we all want the same thing. Francine how do you spot a good entrepreneur or if you are all in . Emma i am so personality driven. A good ideas a good idea and a white space. If i meet someone that just does something to me, i feel it immediately. Im like, its you. Francine fire in the belly . Emma mad passion. I could get excited about an origami company. Im that person. I respond to that because thats who i am. I also respond to the fact that sometimes you see yourself knowing that someone hasnt gotten another opportunity or a chance. I will have a crack or a go at you. Francine what is emma going to do in five years . Emma i dont know, lie down. Take a break. Its true, i will find Something Else. Im really focused on a lot of my nonprofit work these days. On the chairwoman of an Incredible Organization called the 15 page, which is really focused on creating some semblance of balance in the world of black owned business, figuring out how to show up in retail with more balance. I honestly believe that any way that i can use my voice, use my influence and use the knowledge that ive built after all this time, for good, is a good use of my energy. Why is it so underfunded still . Emma its about access. I think about this all the time. Talent is fairly evenly distributed, opportunity isnt. We need to give more opportunity to people regardless of education, race, background, age. Its about leveling the Playing Field. We come back to the same idea. Who gets to be an entrepreneur, who gets to make decisions . The more we can open that, the better it is for everybody. I have proven that diversity is a superpower. The more people you have at the table, the more customers you could serve, its good business, its not about being holier than thou are giving somebody an opportunity that doesnt deserve it, its about being able to service as many customers hands as you can and the more minds that reflect your customer base, the better. Francine thank you for joining us today. Emma thank you so much. Youre probably not easily persuaded to switch mobile providers for your business. But what if we told you its possible that comcast business mobile can save you up to 75 a year on your wireless bill versus the big three carriers . 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