Moderator of Washington Week on cbs. Where do you think this presidency is in context of the week that we have seen . It is another week of upheaval in washington. The president s embrace of these confederate symbols is in essence a turn to his base that andemains an outsider, antiestablishment figure. It comes with moral outrage from democrats and some republicans, but he sees it as a strategy encouraged by steve bannon to turn away from the political norms and embrace politics, even racially charged politics. Charlie this is a decision by him and steve bannon primarily . We often think of steve bannon as a guru behind the president. He has been displayed on saturday night live and other places as a puppet master. His decision to embrace statues on public ground is a decision driven by the president himself. A president who sees is Approval Rating shrinking. At this crucial moment in the summer of his presidency, he is racial to his base, tensions, racial politics, that are inflaming our national conversation. Charlie does he have some sense of what he is engendering when he does this . It comes days after the tragedy in charlottesville. These words from President Trump, a are rash of tweets about confederate statues on ofrsday, shows a lack recognition about the consequences of handling the in this way in such a time for the country would. Ace is at the fore senator corker from tennessee said on thursday that the president has abandoned the moral authority of the to command the country at times like these. Charlie where are the people around him . Lets talk about john kelly, the chief of staff. Robert there is a story in thursdays Washington Post about john kelly. They say that he is trying, charlie, to bring order to the white house. To have a new process to how information gets to the president. Making sure calls are routed gets tohim before it President Trump. He is struggling to actually manage the chief. He is reshaping the staff, but not the chief. Arlier, the president had pinball game of a press conference from tropic to topic, disgruntled, and frustrated. Charlie what about his Economic Advisor . Robert every person close to disgusted that he was by the president s comments on thursday. His embrace of both sides when it comes to White Nationalism or protested in that charlottesville. Taxs leading the fight on reform and infrastructure. A former president of goldman sachs. He has personally been affronted by some of the president s comments, but he has not yet resigned. He sees himself possibly as the next chairman of the federal reserve, should that slide open. Yet met theis not threshold for stepping down, but he could be close to it charlie . Andthen the family, ivanka jared kushner. Robert they have been on vacation until thursday in vermont. They returned to be with President Trump. The too are alarmed at president s turn. They were part of the group that urged the president to issue a new statement and not go what not go with what he said when he was critical of the episode. They have been unhappy with the s incendiary turn. Jared kushner, ivanka trump, cohen, it is a reminder that no one but President Trump dictates what he does. Charlie steve bannon, people have been predict that he might , depending on the advice he is giving the president , that his rhetoric went too far and he ng, but also engaging in a fight with h. R. Mcmaster, some suggest his time at the white house was in trouble. Robert he is on thin ice. Bannon joined the campaign in 2016. You see him since day one navigating a white house that never saw him as a natural fit. He has always clashed with jared kushner. Jared kushner is ok with international institutions, alliances, and once the president to move in a more moderate direction on the local front. Against that. S he is one of the few in the wake of charlottesville saying let the president say there are two e argument. Charlie bob corker, and the was aboutying how he what happened in charlottesville, and the idea of White Supremacists and neonazis, and others being given a voice and some say it emboldened. Does the party have any influence . Robert the party is facing its own crossroads. Or not . Desert trump they have a september that will be a challenge. They face a debt ceiling and a budget. Maybe getting a budget tax reform, infrastructure. They have to tackle these issues. Do they abandon the president and help with the best in 2020 or not . They have to reckon with the fact that the president , despite their to testament of how the president handled charlottesville, he has a grip over their voters. If they break from him, they could face it back in their own states. Charlie steve bannon said in an interview with american warpect that the idea of a against north korea was insane and would never happen. That was not an option, he said. Here is the president talking about fury and fire, trying to that the president is committed to them not having Nuclear Weapons, and steve bannon saying war is not an option. Steve bannon is part of the noninterventional list, unlike mcmaster who he has clashed on afghan policy, north korea. Im the afghan policy, he says lets send thousands of more troops to stabilize the region. In north korea, dont rule out any option. Against that hawkish intervention. In private conversation, you find out that no one wants the blood of a Million People in eul on them. The pentagon has not begun the things that you would think to see four was imminently on the horizon. Charlie is donald trump fit to be president , whatever that word means, by behavior, psychological judgments about him, and worries about him in terms of what he might do if he felt cornered or if he was losing support. Do you hear that voice among the kinds of people that you talk to in this moment in our history . In the you hear that white house and the administration. There is a heartening among people when they saw general kelli become chief of staff. They hope that he and rex tillerson, secretary of defense thatattis, could be forces keep the president and line from having eruptions on the world stage. When it comes to whether he is fit to be in office, there are questions raised by Many Democrats and some republicans about that. The unraveling of the norm that defined the american presidency. Instead of being a moral authority and voice in the times of crisis, he is turning to his base. This is alarming for people who follow history in this presidency to see it being redefined in realtime and not abiding by those norms. Charlie he campaigned to be a different kind of president and swamping to clean out the and was going to do things about respects and norms. I saw it on the campaign trail went i interviewed candidate and President Trump. He is so outside of the dynamic, republicans versus democrats. He is an instinctive populace who loves to fight, loves controversy. The way the presidency in this country is being governed, by an instinctive 70 plusyearold populist. Charlie do think it is going to get more intense . Reports from charlottesville are suggesting that he at least are not becoming more in the mood and othersl kelly hoped. More on message, more easily not distracted. Robert when does it end . In the White House Briefing room, the question always comes chaose to lend as the and . When does donald trump decide to move in a more moderate direction . The answer, though it may be unsettling, there will be no end as long as Donald Trumps president. I covered him for too long to have the expectation anything will change. He relishes the chaos, sees disruption is power. That has not changed since he was inaugurated. You see him in august of 2017 embracing the carnage on the american stage. People keep having the wish in the press and in both parties someho will turn away and the fire will be put out, it will not. Charlie we will be right back with dr. Henry kissinger and his analysis of north korea, ideas that he thinks the United States might consider. Charlie dr. Henry kissinger is here. He served under president nixon and ford. I am pleased to have him back at this table. Welcome. Youre looking good and i assume feeling well. That is a heavy title there, how to resolve the north korean crisis because every government i remember is trying to resolve that. How to you do it . It is a way to approach it. The basic point of the article is our Foreign Policy has been to bring it out north korea with consequences, and on the other ask china to help us. This threat is not fully effective because for the North Koreans, they spent decades of oppressing their people and depriving them to build these weapons. So they are not going to yield to threats very easily. Charlie threats of sanctions and the like . Dr. Kissinger it is going to take tremendous physical threats. On the other hand, china helping us, they are not there to help us. They are there to help themselves. But the point of the article is we are at a moment when the interest of america and china coincide. We dont want the Nuclear Weapons in north korea because of many reasons. The threat it might represent to us and others. The chinese do not want Nuclear Weapons in korea because if those weapons remain, other countries in asia are sure to build Nuclear Weapons of their own. Like japan, south korea, vietnam, and other entities might be tempted. So then the whole area of will be nuclearized of these in tensions with each other. China would be a greater target, even more than the United States. We are at a moment where it is conceivable that if we continue our pressures and if china uses its influence and pressures, mighthe North Koreans reduce, substantially reduce. Enuclearizations needs to be did end goal. Charlie they came down to maralago and talked about going light on trade. With his approach wrong . Dr. Kissinger with the implication that we would help with trade if they helped with china. This looks like a commercial proposition, as if they are in business to extort economic problems. Economic progress. The problem for china would be if north korea gives up Nuclear Weapons, it gives of the only significant achievement to which they can point. It might lead to the collapse of the regime or great unrest. It will lead to a time in korea of major adjustment. I believe what the chinese need from us is a discussion of how we handle the evolution of korea after the denuclearization has been achieved. We have not had an adequate discussion of our consequences of our objectives. I believe that with that discussion, a joint policy with china could make much greater progress. Charlie general mathis and the secretary of state have both said we do not want to change the regime. We just want them not to use Nuclear Weapons. There is no threat from the United States. Dr. Kissinger we dont want to change the regime. But if the regime collapses or disintegrates, we will not mourn it. There will be consequences of a disintegrating north korea right at the border of china with the possibility of many refugees. That is something that preoccupies china. Charlie you are also preoccupied with the idea of a reunification of the koreas, north and south, which would somehow it evolves into one more nation in the area who may be opposed to them if the south koreans dominate a unified south korea. Dr. Kissinger i think a unified korea is something that may be less dangerous than a divided korea, one of which has Nuclear Weapons and starts pressing for its objectives. The possible unification of korea should be one of the subjects that will be discussed not only with china but also with south korea and japan. Charlie can you sit down with the chinese, as a diplomat, and say tell me what you want, what your fears are. We will figure out how to meet both of those objectives. And i will tell you what my wants and fears are . Dr. Kissinger i think the better way would be to send some private emissaries to the chinese and say, here is our notion of the evolution of the region if things continue as they are. Some military clash by somebody is inevitable on the present course sooner or later. The way we can remove the danger , and above all the danger of Nuclear Weapons, is to come to an understanding. The kind of pressure that will be applied and the political structure that we will recommend to the world to support after it. Then to put that forward in some manner. In a formal channel. Charlie what do you think the chinese would accept . What kind of proposal . Dr. Kissinger this is speculation on my part. I think the chinese would live with the united korea, that it remains part of the American Alliance but with limitations in north korea of highperformance weapons and deployment close to the chinese border, but a korea that is otherwise unified. Charlie and you think it is best to do this behind the scenes with an emissary in private to create conversation . Dr. Kissinger there has to be a it is negotiation, but helpful if there is enough of a philosophical kind of dialogue so that people understand how the other views the problem and what it is likely to do. Charlie they have had lots of conversations from one administration to the other. George w. Bush, barack obama, bill clinton. Dr. Kissinger there have been lots of conversations, and i am familiar with many of them. Those conversations are usually why you should help north korea. There has rarely been a formal conversation of the future of northeast asia, probably because partly because for a long time north korea was considered an integral part of the chinese and the communist world until about one of the most significant events that happened that we couldnt notice. Until about three or four years ago, north korea was inside china out of the communist party, not out of the Foreign Ministry. It was considered an adjunct to chinese policy. I think it is only in the last few years that the chinese leadership has begun to understand that the north Korea Nuclear program is not something that is a minor irritant or something that is likely to fail. It is growing Strong Enough to affect the balance in asia. Charlie it can be effective within a year, the recent estimates suggest. Dr. Kissinger i think speed has surprised everybody. The conduct of the north korean government, assassinating the halfbrother of the leader at a malaysian airport. Spreading poison. Many similar things charlie in fact, killing some of his fathers advisors. Dr. Kissinger yes. Five of the six pallbearers at his fathers funeral have disappeared. Charlie five of the six pallbearers . Dr. Kissinger have disappeared. And one of them, the uncle that office washim in publicly disgraced and was executed. So it is another regime where you dont want to have Nuclear Weapons. The key point is many people would say, why dont we just accept it . Because we have lived through the chinese. Charlie and the pakistanis and others. Dr. Kissinger yes. But here is a country that has proliferated its Nuclear Weapons already. They have made some of the Nuclear Materials available to syria several years ago, and they gave some of their engines to iran. This is a proliferating regime. Most believe if they survive not as a regime, but with the Nuclear Weapons, they will spread the Nuclear Weapons into south korea and japan. If it comes highly probable. Charlie as i understand, did south korea, japan, china especially china should they be brought together in this . Should this become proficient that takes place with anyone who has an interest in the region . Dr. Kissinger yes. I believe an initial conversation with china is probably the best way to proceed. Charlie in bilateral conversations . Formal orger in conceptual conversations. Other what ourh review is of the evolution and why it is important for the peace and security of mankind. It is the question of bringing down a regime. It is a question of producing a world in which the use of Nuclear Weapons will become conventional or could become conventional, and the catastrophic impact of so many nations. Therefore, the ideal would be if north korea could be induced , and i mean with significant pressures, to give up its program. If not, a reduction of its capacities. Maybe a brief time of peace. A brief time of freeze. But i am not happy with that because a freeze maintains the present situation. The opposition of china and the United States, this means we will be shaken badly. Charlie does a preemptive attack to prevent them from having a Nuclear Weapon capable of delivering to the United States have so much cost that in badly. Torlie a preemptive attack prevent them from having a Nuclear Weapon capable of being delivered to the United States has so much cost that it is unacceptable as an alternative. That is what we said to the iranians. It is unacceptable that you have Nuclear Weapons. That is what we are saying to the North Koreans. Thathave been of the view we did not get enough from the iranians for the agreement that we did, but that agreement at least delayed the advancement of their nuclear capacity. Agreement right after they had launched an intercontinental test which would legitimize all their efforts. It keep it kept them in the same capacity and not make any towards what needs to be done in this nuclear threat, this Nuclear Proliferation continues and if we cannot in a countryven that is mostly condemned by mankind and most of the established countries, then we of other any control programs that may spring up. Charlie do you consider kim aun irrational leader rational leader . Dr. Kissinger he was at a prep school in switzerland. There were all kinds of reports of how normally he behaved. The korean regime has maintained itself by practicing a degree of terror that is unprecedented even among many of the dictatorships. Every house has a radio, which they cannot shut off so the regime talks permanently to the subjects. They have a system of concentration camps and of human abuse that is extraordinary. They have kidnapped at least 100 japanese, because they needed teachers of the japanese language, and they have achieved a degree of brainwashing their population so that some of the from there find it hard to adjust to the free countries to which they escape. Charlie is that of equal mine, a rational mind, or both . Dr. Kissinger it is of necessity. It is so beyond Human Experience that one would say it is substantially an irrational element. Charlie does a president who talks about fire and fury contribute to reactions like that . Dr. Kissinger all of us who practice diplomacy would have chosen different language. On the other hand, we would have said to give a very sharp warning to north korea that they are playing with fire when they threaten the United States. And when they say the only use of the icbm that they contemplate is against the United States and then when they talk about dropping missiles around guam, i understand that a president wants to issue a very sharp warning that things could get out of control. The dilemma of Nuclear Weapons is to make such a threat credible you have to show you are going to the edge of what a rational calculation would be. I would not have recommended that language, but i would have recommended an effort like this. Got you outnumbered. The dinosaurs extinction. Dont listen to them. Not appropriate. Now im mashing these potatoes with my stick of butter. Why dont you sit over here. Find your awesome with the Xfinity Stream app. Included with xfinity tv. More to stream to every screen. Charlie what is your assessment of china today in terms of xi jinping on the eve of another Chinese Party congress coming up in october and november in terms of his leadership and his Global Vision . Dr. Kissinger china has two huge challenges. They are a country with thousands of years of history and, therefore, there is a sense of continuity unique among the countries of the world. They now have to undergo a significant Reform Program for their own economic necessities. The Reform Program, to some major, alters some of the reforms that we have made in the last few generations. It could affect the institutions especially in the economic field and in the economic practices. That is a huge challenge. To this, they would prefer not to have to have an international crisis. They know a confrontation with the United States would sap so many resources, that their economic dreams could not be realized. On the other hand, in this thousands of years of history, they have thought of themselves as a country whose majestic conduct and skill of activities was symbolic for major parts of the world, and they consider themselves as a kind of center kingdom. They have to find their International Place in the world in which for the first time in their history is equaled by at least the United States. They are no longer alone no matter how great their effort. No matter how you create an International System, the concept of International System in a society that historically has thought itself unique. The chinese did not have a Foreign Ministry until the end of the 19th century. The Foreign Policy as we know it was conducted by something called the ministry of rituals that classified each country by the degree of its dependency on china. So, china has reformed its deal withystem and the concept of International Order in which they can play some of the historic role. But not a central role exclusively that they had before. They are face to face with another country. Namely us, which also thinks of itself as exceptional. But we do it more on a and on ay basis performance basis. To have a dialogue over the years with the american president and the chinese president has a certain frustration. The american president , no matter who he is, thanks the normal position of the world is stability, and, if there is a problem, you need to fix the problem should the chinese to fix the problem. The chinese president thinks the solution of any problem is an admissions ticket for another problem. Therefore, the chinese president is thinking of a process. And the american president is thinking of a deal. The american president negotiates for what brought him into the conference room. Charlie having known all of jingping does xi compare to previous leaders of china . In vision and reform and capacity to have his way . Dr. Kissinger first of all, he lives in a different period. Each leader you mentioned represented one face. Mao unified china. There was the overcoming the effects of tiananmen and making it part of the International System. Man who is trying to combine several of the , and he of the others is moving towards a position bere if he succeeds he will comparable in influence to mao. Charlie if he moves to where he wants to go, he will be compared to mao in terms of his influence on society . Dr. Kissinger yes, because he is trying to make the society that he inherited after decades of turmoil and put it on a basis of what he calls the two dreams. The first stream goes into effect through soon in 2021 when china reaches a level of the poorer european countries. The second one is at the hundredth anniversary of the founding of the peoples china, byn 2049 where his vision, will be at least as strong as the strongest other nation in the world. Charlie therefore, why doesnt he want to do all he can to make sure north korea is not a disruptive factor in the region . Dr. Kissinger i believe this is his intention. This is his goal. I believe he would reason that it is the nature of the roof solution that of the revolution that we lived through globally. There are so many pressures that operate on leaders that they cannot do everything. Particularly at the same moment. Facing the 19th Party Conference which is an event that occurs every five years. It represents some degree of legitimization and leadership changes. There will be almost certainly be significant leadership changes that will occur in the next two to three months. Charlie they will select a new premier . And who is on the Standing Committee . Dr. Kissinger the Standing Committee is so organized that five of the Seven Members have to retire because of age limitations. Charlie there is a talk dr. Kissinger they could change it. Stay, them may be able to but that would be such an unusual event that it would signify a rising influence for that exception. But anyway, that is what he seems to have to deal with. In terms of capacity, in my experience, he is extremely thoughtful but also extremely strong. He was one of the victims, he and his father, of the cultural revolution. They had to live in a cave for many years. I have heard him say publicly that the cultural revolution victims came through it hardened. So, he is formidable, but i believe that he is trying to find a notion of a Peaceful World that is compatible with chinese values and compatible with coexistence with the United States. It will be a tough road. Charlie at the same time, assuming leadership in terms of a global role and in terms of institutions. Dr. Kissinger he made the speech at davos last year, which was a sketch of world order that on the economic side was quite compatible with a routebased system. Charlie that was a time in which populism was red hot in the notion was who would step forward to defend globalization and globalism . Dr. Kissinger ironically, it was china that started the started as a communist state. Charlie one thing that ever changed is the belief in the supremacy of the communist party. Dr. Kissinger absolutely. Charlie you have been part of the conversation in america for a long time. Are you more worried about the country today than you have ever been . Not only because of domestic issues and our president , but the world he lives. Dr. Kissinger no, i am worried because, in over half a century now that i have been some way participating, i have never seen a situation in which the United States had an opportunity for world order, but i have also not participated in a situation in which a country seemed so divided and so unable to find a common thread. Charlie on one hand, there is enormous opportunity for the u. S. To use it superior economy, technology, universities, range of issues dr. Kissinger and to contribute. What we really need in the world today is the idea of peace and world order which dominated the previous centuries. It is being undermined by a succession of upheaval, and some of it by a technological nature. A leadership in the direction of such a goal would give the United States extraordinary opportunities and is quite compatible and expressive of our history and of our values. Based on what you know of this president , is he capable of that leadership . Dr. Kissinger i used to say i am hoping for an augustinian moment. Saint augustine, in his early life followed a pattern that was quite incompatible with later on when he had a vision and rose to sainthood. Dont expect the president to become that, that is an ceivable. S incon when you realize the peace of the world and the future of the world depends on you now so that much of what is here today falls away, i think that is a unique aspect of the american presidency. Charlie is this president losing the opportunity as a cause of his behavior . Dr. Kissinger there are things that happened that i didnt like, but i have not ever joined this involvement to destroy, because i have seen what happens when a president collapses. I still hope we will do the things that need to be done and i think can be done. Some of which nothing that has been done in korea precludes an anyway what i have indicated as a desirable outcome. I think it is possible that what i have described can be done within the existing framework of policy. Charlie are we had a moment in are we at a moment in which a new world order will be built . Are we looking at a time where clearly there is a demand for the creation of a new world order because of changes in the geopolitics of the world . Dr. Kissinger people may not even yet know what they want in a clear enough way. The leaders of this country can bring it to them and other countries, and, by that process, they can produce it. Many centuries ago, in the 17th killed 70 ofe its population with conventional weapons in a war that started over religion. It ended after 30 years with establishing the principles of sovereignty and selfdetermination and so forth. Something nobody imagined when it started. Charlie at the end of the 30 year period. That is not just america alone that can do it, but we can play a defensive role. Charlie and we have enough respect and power to do it, because of our history and what we did after world war ii, because of the role we have played since world war ii. There is still that opportunity for america. By being the one country that backs out of the paris accord, goes to the g20 and is hesitant to back article five, all of those things. Dr. Kissinger yes, an attempt to move in the direction i described. But they are not always close in the rhetoric i have used. Charlie are you optimistic . Dr. Kissinger im hopeful. I think we have a big problem, but i think we can overcome it. Charlie thank you for coming. A pleasure to have you here. Thank you for joining us. See you next time. Track your pack. Set a curfew, or two. Make dinnertime device free. [ music stops ] [ music plays again ] a smarter way to wifi is awesome. Introducing xfinity xfi. Amazing speed, coverage and control. Change the way you wifi. Xfinity. The future of awesome. Emily i am emily chang, and this is the best of Bloomberg Technology where we bring you the best of the weeks interviews in tech. After the events in charlottesville, the Tech Industry is being tested over he could and he groups online. 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