Any stretch. We had a lot of difficult issues in syria and ukraine, just to name two. Stressed time for the relationship. If it is worse than times i can recall, i am a cold warrior in the thrill that. It is worse than that. Some pretty bad times than where we were nodding along at all. There they are still communicating. Are in a constant dialogue and that is a good thing. I think this will be clearly a challenge for the next administration, the management of that relationship area relationship. Charlie why do you think is driving putin . Ames he has a vision of power. Ussia as a great it is externally important to treated andsia be respected as a global power on a par with the United States. And i think that has a lot to do with and telling his behavior. Charlie let me go right to what is in the newspapers and in everyones mind today. It is hacking. And a threat to or perhaps a motivation to impact the u. S. Elections, what can you tell us about that . James probably not going to much behind beyond the state statement that was issued about that. Many people seem to want me to the words which were already very parsed. And agonized over. I think the statement stands for itself. I will say that there is a history here for the soviet interferingssia now in elections, both theirs and other peoples. There is a history of this where they have attempted to influence the outcome of our elections before. Charlie he has said he thinks we tried to interfere in his election. James people who live in glass houses are wiser. Charlie should not throw rocks . Will it have an impact on do you think he will be successful, has he created suspicion, have these disclosures raised questions that somehow will cause people to question the American Democratic process and can they effect the Voting Machines and all that . James i do not think so but that is not that is in issue for the intelligence apparatus to decide. I think the strength for us in this case is the highly decentralized nature of our voting apparatus, which is run by states and local jurisdictions. Think,ke it very hard, i to affect the outcome. Whereot know, cases Voting Machines are tied to the internet, that is the common denominator of the security weaknesses that we have. Hacking isnce to germane. Charlie do you believe that they would be doing this and it did not go to the top, theres things you can trace to russia would not be happening if in fact it had not been, this is not freelanced by fsb or anybody else . Statement saidr this is coming from the highest levels of the russian government. I will not embellish that statement. Anymore. Charlie only talk about a response when we talk about a proportionate response, the Vice President said putin will know but i hope others will not know. James he said something along the lines of if and when we do something it will be a time and place of our choosing. It may not be necessarily a symmetrical response. It may be asymmetrical. Charlie there is the sense they are not paying a price for this. James maybe not yet. Charlie maybe after the election. James i am not going to preempt, is a policy issue it is a policy issue when we do it, it is not a intelligence issue. Charlie you know things. [laughter] dont you . James and 84 days it will have my brainwashed. Thelie it is said president is worried about an escalation of this kind with all the dangers there is, both in terms of hacking but also in terms of cyber. Cyber warfare. About if we respond, they respond, that gets out of control. James that is exactly the issue. That is and i can recall instances where we got a big head of steam up about wanting and asymmetrical considerd had to things like, are we counterattacking through another nationstate infrastructure another nationstates infrastructure and the which poses issues and the lawyers get educated about that. You need to think about the potential counter retaliation to the retaliation you took. Think andll do you this applies to any nationstate, how well you think we can withstand a counterretaliation and those get to be very complicated calculations. Charlie and the risk is . James sometimes it is better to consider other options other than the symmetrical. Charlie and the risk is . Is, given thek thisndous dependence of nation on the cyberdomain to do everything, whether it is personal, institutional, we have to think twice, i think at it and be very cautious about retaliating in a cyber context. Because the presumption that there is going to be an equally exquisite and precise calculus may not be a valid one to make. Charlie this is a new world we are living in with respect to the internet. James precisely. Charlie i love the terms they use, fancy beer and cozy bear bear. Bear and cozy james ok. This showoes all of something about the vulnerability of our system . James it does. First internet was as an experiment, and then as it mushroomed, security was never an integral part of what the was designed for. It was not a consideration. Charlie it was the opposite. James were paying the price for that now. Charlie what are our options then . James i think we are always in the absence of a technological breakthrough, in a catchup mode. There are some fundamental cyberhygiene things that surprisingly, people, individuals and institutions do not attend to. Increasingly, though, i think there is an awareness in the commercial sector and the attention getter there is how does this affect my bottom line . That is what i think is motivating increasingly the companies to pay more attention to Cyber Security, but it is always an action and reaction. As long as we have this dependency on the internet, were always going to have this fundamental challenge of how to promote some security in the cyber domain. Charlie we have gotten much better at attribution. We pretty much know where it comes from these days. Thats really helps. Somenk that that provides degree of deterrence. We do not have enough body of law yet, we have not in my opinion, this is not company policy, this is me speaking. We have not been able to generate the substance or the psychology of deterrence in the cyberrealm. That is going to continue to be an issue for us. It is easier perhaps with nationstates, and nationstates have other vulnerabilities beside their cybersecurity weaknesses. It is nonnationstate entities or the nations that have been in the past considered to have a lesser capability and i am thinking of the likes of north have theere we disparity or contrast between the capability of the most sophisticated cyber actors, which are clearly russia and to this point, perhaps more benign intent. And other countries with more nefarious intent and more nefarious are other nationstate actors. So how to create the substance and the psychology of deterrence against all those potential actors, i do not think we have figure that out yet. The internet attack a nonstate actor . Still the investigate is investigation is so going on, there is a lot of data to be gathered. That appears to be preliminary preliminarily the case. I would want not want to be conclusive. Washer a nationstate behind our not. Charlie we looked at the North Koreans and sony and identified them, with the iranians later there was some indictments. We have not said anything about and it took us three or four months to respond and identify the russians. What is the calculus behind all that . James and the most recent case in the most recent case, the reason for the delay was at least for my part, was driven certitudence, greater about attribution. Business, it is always better to have multiple sources when you are going to dime out a nationstate publicly. I want to be kind of careful about that. The other thing about all this thatess of attribution is oftentimes, the means by which we do that is fragile and perishable. Transparent are too about it, i want the details, then we risk losing those perishable, fragile sources that give this as the inside in the first place. Charlie let me turn to north korea. Can you tell us how, what is the status of their ability to put a Nuclear Warhead on a missile that can reach the west coast of the United States . James we have assessed that capability. In a situation like this, we always have the worst case. But frankly, in the case of their intercontinental ballistic missiles, neither they nor we know whether that missile will actually work, it has never been tested. But nevertheless, we ascribed them to them the capability missile that would have a weapon on it that potential he could reach parts of the United States, certainly including alaska and hawaii. Charlie what is the timeframe . What . Timeframe for charlie when they could do it. James we have assessed this for years. I would say again, neither net they nor we know whether their Missile Systems will work. We have to make the worst Case Assumption here. What if it worked, what are our options . Sanctions, sabotage . It is not just a worstcase scenario, but is a scenario that is possible and likely. What are our options, what is our strategy . James that is policy. I do not do policy. Charlie but you have opinions. James i am just in the engine room shoveling. Charlie when the president says t should we do, he said you say that his opinions, i do not have opinions. James there are a number of options, military is one of them, sanctions, although we are running out of gas on sanctions because we imposed most of them that we can. The key player is china with respect to sanctions. If a military option were to be exercised, obviously, we would play very heavily in that process. That is not a decision, fortunately, that the Intelligence Community will make. Charlie when you look at china and their game in the south china sea, this is not a policy question, this is an analysis, what are they up to, is the sum kind of munro doctrine by china . James the chinese feel very their rectitude about their exorbitant claims in the south china sea, that all , thearitime contained areunal decision, they in theed to their claims south tennessee. I was there recently and it was reaffirmed to me by the chinese interlocutors that i engaged with. Charlie when you go there, who do you see . James the primary figure that i the politburo member who is the overseer for other intelligence and security organizations. Charlie one thing of cia does clearly and therefore, you, is make analysis of leadership in respective countries and their ambitions and their profiles. Lots of virginias papers about reports in newspapers about the continued authoritative kind by moves by she jinping ping. What do we do about him . That is always a hardy perennial for intelligence. Can, the best we oftentimes we have to do it inferentially by behavior that they exhibit, because there is the old saw in intelligence about mysteries and secrets. Secrets are known facts and areeries are, too often we held to the same exacting standards for dividing both. We are not clairvoyant. Nevertheless, i would offer that the president , the thing that impels leadership leadership in china is first and foremost, i believe, is domestic stability. And so charlie hence, their paranoia. James i think there is a certain amount of as we would call it, paranoia about being contained. Very sensitive about the apparent appearance of the u. S. Containing china. And so i think a manifestation of that behavior is the way they have approached their claims in the south china sea. He biggest thing internally is the domestic stability. And so, he has embarked on a Reform Program to try to corruption, and i keeping thebent on control by the party apparatus. Apparatus as well which i find disturbing and also impressive, that is a mended military monetization that the chinese have mounted across many fronts. Charlie including a huge naval investment to extend their power around the world. James also in the space arena. Our have in recognition of dependence on space for lots of purposes, they have accounted for that. This is part of their monitorization. East. E the middle james it makes your head hurt. It is an extremely complex situation and the complexity is probably most focused in right now in syria. Competing interests there. Charlie including the russians. James including the russians. Were rightsho for writes for the new the mideast said is too important to ignore and too hard to fix. We can help others but in the end, i think fixing the mideast, whatever that means, is not something the United States can do unilaterally. Inrlie but are dissipating iraq in that battle to retake mosul. How long do think that is going to take, what should we know about that . Time. Probably a long the greater concern i would have ss what happens after mosul i declared recaptured. Charlie what is your concern . James what will happen in terms of holding it and impliedly,hat about governance in mosul depending, and recovery, depending on how much a highlyon occurs in urbanized situation. If that vacuum is not filled rapidly with governance, provision of meniscal services, provide theill just Fertile Ground for isil or some other Extremist Group to come back. Charlie everybody in todays papers talking about turkey want to come in. They want to fight and be part of it. They ares, yes, concerned about isil, but the primary concern they have, of course, is a united british nation, if i could usually term across theotes southern border. They are most concerned about the kurds, that is their primary motivation and to the extent that they can prosecute a campaign against isil the iraqi Prime Minister said this is going faster than he expected. You have all the things after said falls, and you have you clearly need some kind of governing there. This is also a concern in syria as well. In terms of what happens there. And if, in fact, isil is , and they takeqa the battle someplace else, you end up with a civil war, just a civil war. James we already have one. Charlie that is the very fight between the Assad Government and rebels. James i think it is a lot more complex than that. There are so many shades of opposition groups. In syria. You have the other complexity is the russians, who very much want their beachhead, to hold, whatever figure you want to use in the meatiest mideast by having up what has been propping up what has been a staunch ally of theirs. That adds to the complexity. A son will is likely be in power when president obama leaves. Aad will be in power when president obamas lead when president obama leaves. What worries you the most . Bo syria and where it is going and where the whether mosul will make an attack on role, and whether, what does al nusra play. He said the thing you worry about most is what you do not know. James exactly. You remembered. That is very good. I think what we have to be the nationstate attributes, such as they are of the caliphate, asserted by isil, a being defeated as socalled or nationstatelike enemy. I think the history of isil going back to its al qaeda and in a rack roots is one of resilience and flex ability. Flex ability. Flexibility. We have the emphasis on recapturing territory and cities, in this case, mosul. When that happens, what, then does isil what form does isil take . It is probably not going to go away. It will morph into something else, or other similar Extremist Groups will be spawned and i believe we are going to be in the business of suppressing these extremist movements for a long time to come. Charlie whatever happens in isis will beqa, with us in some name. James right. Inrlie when you look back terms of the intelligence world you inhabited, what mistakes that we made, for example with the focus on terrorism and all we have to do by nature, did we take our eye off what russia was doing . James that is a good question. I have been concerned about just manage,the program i the National Intelligence brown which funds the agencys and the other components of the Intelligence Community is the very large proportion of that that is devoted to counterterrorism. Time, keepingame othere on all the challenges that we have, major russia, china,ke we areorea, iran, focused, so consumed and preoccupied with counterterrorism, i do worry about that. Resources inte proportion to each one of those theets is not unilaterally Intelligence Communitys decision. We have lots of help from policymakers and from the congress as well. To determine those priorities. Sitting in my position, i worry about that. James you have experience in this, too. To the same person command both nsa should the same person command nsa and Cyber Security . Reached it where it is time to separate the two. I was part of the decisionmaking in the pentagon when i was the undersecretary for intelligence to start cyb two had a arrangement. That has not been intended to be remnant and it has been six years. We reached the point where each thehese responsibilities, cyber come commander and director of nsa are large enough and sufficient magnitude that they should be separate. I have done a couple of agencies myself. Forirector of dia and nga almost nine years and running any of these agencies is an allconsuming, seven by 24 proposition. For lots ofof reasons, they should be separate. Charlie do you ever leave a note on the president s desk as a tradition with president s, what will your note say . Thes i would hope that next president , whoever it is, will continue in the tradition of the current president in allowing and encouraging truth to power. I think that is a fundamental writ of intelligence that it be presented to the president in an unpleasant sized un politicized and unvarnished manner. And to encourage it and to defend it. Charlie you said that what you worry about what you dont know. I mean the seriously. What might you not know . James a lot. Charlie what is it that you do not know about that you would have some sense of it, intuition backed by experience and some evidence that scares the hell out of you . James when you have some insight into, say, a terrorist plot, even a you may not know a lot of the details my but you have some insight, you may not know timing, you may not know all the individuals involved, you may not know what the nature of the plot maybe. May be. If you have something to start with, you can build on that created can bring to bear more resources, more collection. The situation, the things you worry about where you have no insight whatsoever into potential bad event and you can conjure up all sorts of nefarious scenarios that could happen, that you may not know about. Youlie i have not asked this one last question about climate. His climate a National Security issue . James it certainly is. We are seeing this already. The effects of climate on National Security issues, things like the availability of water, energy, and this increasingly, i believe, is going to play a big part in our landscape inrity the future. Thanke director clapper, you so much for joining us. [applause] james thank you. Charlie 20 years of the tiger people havetion, been touched by the Tiger Woods Foundation and all of the scholars who found because of education and opportunity to find a. We want to talk about the foundation and thought to be and the remarkable relationship between tiger and phil and tiger and nike. It is an honor to be here. Lets begin with the obvious question, how you two got together. Tiger he hired me. Charlie he came to you and said, i have some money for you, how much will it take . It got to be a negotiation. Last night in time to watch the bait. Tonights debate event is a lot better than that. Really a competent. Is thing i learned from that the new use of the word pivot. As long as tiger made me get up here which i do not like to do that much, i decided for the next minute we will talk about what i want to talk about. [laughter] will read to you from a 1997 issue of sports illustrated. The 1997 masters was a recordbreaking week, be on the scope of any record book, tiger a down racial barriers that have been embedded in the sport since its inception. Once identified as one have africanamerican and one half thai, what the public self from those at the gstaad national to those glued to their televisions was the first black man to win a major championship. And in truly historic fashion no less. Augustine national, golfs eternal mecca, emanated exclusivity and elitism. The course had only begun allowing African Americans to become club members prior to woods victory. The cofounder in 1933 one said as long as i am alive, golfers will be white and caddies will be black. The quote does not mention champions. I was there that day, on the 18th green, the clubhouse, with its maintenance people, its cooks, its waiters, emptied, africanamericans dropped their frying pans, their mobs, their writing pads, they came out to the 18th green to cheer. This was galls Jackie Robinson moment. 19 years later, it is somewhat forgotten because of what happened next. Tiger woods simply went on to transcend race. People fromd by every nation and every color because of the dramatic way he won and the relationship with his mother and father, because of his relationship with his kids, because of his big smile and the way he competed. Or 20 years, nike has been a small part of that journey, just a sideline but i can tell you, it has been an honor. [applause] tiger thank you. When we first started the foundation 20 years ago, it was big basically a traveling circus. I would hit golf balls around the country in various cities and try to raise funds for local junior golf charities and get some type of teach the kids, there is a way to earn money and to earn a job and to earn a living besides going out there and playing professional golf. Fastforward, we had a tragedy here, 9 11 happened. I was in st. Louis playing in the americas first championship. I drove home on the 13th, i and inonstop, 18 hours kept thinking, what if i was in one of those planes in the building and i was gone, what would my Foundation Look like question mark it would be gone. Later, i said we need to create something different, we need to create something that the kids can call their own, something they can touch and feel and something that is bricks and mortar. He said what do have in mind, we need to create a building where the kids will fit. He says, ok, let me go to work. 10 days later, he says, i have got this place in anaheim you might know. Is where i played my high right across fromp savannah high school. The mayor had agreed to a 50 year leaseh, a dollar a year. They believe in what we can do for the community. I said, suite. He says all right, what do you want to do question mark i said, we are going to change the foundation from golfbased to educational phase. He said, why . I was raised where family came first, then education, then sports. Whatever sports may be, baseball, track, crosscountry, or golf. Lets go back to putting family and education first. He said, youre taking over. I said, really . He said, youre ready. I sent for the direction, youre the boss, lets go. Charlie this is represent a second part of your life in the you greeted the foundation with your dad in 1997 question mark 1997 . Tiger i am not going to be playing golf at the elite level for 20 more years. I would like to, but i know that is not going to happen, lets be realistic. I cant wait to get to a seat or a cart. [laughter] cart. E around in my where, this work is far more important than hitting and making a few putts. As this work will change the world and as i was a learning alluding to earlier, these kids, they need our help, they need our support, they need our guidance. I think they deserve it. Charlie you both are passionate about science education, you have given money to oregon, tell me about that, that sense of your commitment. For both of you. Phil i think science is about the future. In a lot of ways, they are synonyms. Willnk that basically that be what defines the United States and the world going ahead. Young people in that area is hugely important. Charlie and stem for you . Tiger our lives have changed so quickly so fast. I remember joking around earlier tonight that when i was in college we did not have the internet. I do not feel like i am that old. We were talking about the deweys it dewey decimal system and microfiche. This is a totally different world and it happened so quickly. Why didnt happen so quickly, because of science. This is the wave of the future as phil is alluding to. Charlie how have you seen tiger change of the years as you have known him . Phil i will not pivot. Obviously, he has gotten a little older. Here talking about hair. Was, taking a chance on a skinny kid, he was skinny but he was already a phenom, so it was not that big a risk. We expected it to turn out well and it has turned out even better. He has obviously matured and im proud of the way he has matured. I am proud of the association. [applause] in the so that nobody room does not want to know, how is your golf . And shootinglaying good numbers, in the mid60s and things of that nature. And doto get out there it in a retirement situation and i am getting there. Getting to where i am feeling more explosive, getting faster, the balls are starting to jump up again and i am gaining confidence in my body. It is a lot of fun. I have seen the numbers, i have seen what these younger guys are doing and what they are able to do, my nubbers are climbing so i am excited about it and also it is about getting the job done lowest scoree possible. I understand how to play and i am out there and i have to get out there and do it. Just do it. [applause] tiger so i will. There is also the question, when . [laughter] tiger in the future. [laughter] charlie what is it about him that makes us so curious about him and so rooting for him to come back . Phil it is really interesting that you have the five best players in the world, even the tiger has not played in a musty year, his tvst a ratings go up 25 . The world is interested in tiger cause, if you want to be, look at the commercial aspects which is as we are talking about, that is the number of eyes that watch tv. He has done it all. He is articulate, he is a great human being, he is hand, and he wins. Tiger aww. It is the full package of what you are looking for and for whatn endorsement, television is looking for in a hero. Charlie is it because he plays the game so well and people want to see him come back if they might be witnessing that, that up . Y the ratings go phil they are rooting for him. In television, when you elect a president , he becomes the family and music area the big parts of American Culture that people identify with. Tiger woods has been part of the family for 20 years and they want part of the family to come back. Charlie now they have this foundation and you know youre touching lives, to know that what the Tiger Foundation can do to change a Young Persons life that has meaning as much as winning golf tournaments . Figure, we sports are in the entertainment industry. And retaining, people want to watch and they want to root or blue or whatever they want to do. That is part of it. What we are doing here with the foundation and helping these ly going toeral change the perception and the reality of their lives and make it so much better not only for them but their entire families and their communities. We are trying to do it at the Grassroots Level and it has been fun these last 20 years, it has been fun but these next 20 and beyond will be absolutely incredible. Charlie what new directions might go with the Tiger Woods Foundation other than we have talked about . Tiger we are sticking with stem, we are very were sticking with stem, we are very singleminded on that. I believe in being focused on the one thing and i think we have done that. I think there is different opportunities within that, what i mean by that is we can expand using our new digital platforms, not just here domestically but internationally, you can teach so many different kids in these different areas that whatever their needs are, i think we will eachthem through stem, and individual city or state or country may have different needs, and it is up to us to work with the government bodies or states and cities at the local level to know what those needs are and we will create the programs that are necessary for those needs. Charlie will you take a more public role generally . Tiger absolutely. That is one of the reasons we created tgr, the new chapter two of my life. I will take a more public role in that regard. I still want to take some [indiscernible] charlie that is the warrior spirit. Anybody, michael jordan, have you known anybody that has a will to win any higher than the guy sitting to your left . Phil no, it is rated right at the top. Michael being one and lebron being another. Another one. Ova, a common trait of the greats. Charlie define it for us. Phil Serena Williams also is maybe one. In her early years, she would really not play good until she was down and then she would not lose. I think that is what it is. Re areust refuse, and the not very many of them. You can see many people come along with the with Great Potential and the next great one. Many people become the next great one. It can be rate, it comes more from inside than the outside. Did you acquiree that or were you born with it . Tiger i would learned to develop it. I have always liked being people. First of all, i wanted to beat my dad in whatever we were playing, and that to me was fun. I like to compete. I like to compete, i am very competitive by nature. Very aggressive by nature when it comes to competing. I like mixing it up, not afraid to mix it up and get out there and try to get it done. Charlie there has been no diminution of that, that will, that intense desire . Tiger the mind has not changed but the body certainly has. It has gone through, i put it through its paces, i won through some tough injuries and tough times physically. But what has led me to do that has been i think the internal drive that has allowed me to overcome some of these obstacles, some of the different injuries i have had and played some injuries that people do not know i have played through. The whole idea is once i start and compete, that is it. You just got there and compete in a try to figure out a way to get it done. Tigers desire to beat his dad was real. Scorecard, the first time he ever beat his dad and they went to the 17th hole, all par. And his dad went par card andhe photographed it and we havent in a building in our campus which is coincidentally named the tiger woods building. It is about the size. It is signed by tiger woods at age 11, 10 months. In this sport, we lose far more than we win. Taking a harder look at myself a lot of times, it is not fun. I messed up on this and i made that wrong decision there, i should have played that angle. Why deny understand or remember lookedat putt loked like. That to me are things that are fixable but then again taking a hard look at myself at times and turning around for the next. Charlie we are here salivating the 20th anniversary of this foundation and we laid out the future and we talked but your game and her relationship with phil and in a sense, you have taken note of the fact that this is a second beginning. So, thank you. X we are starting like this . Was money anything you thought about . Goldmane seem to blame for the sins of wall street more than they blamed anything else. Could this be lifethreatening . It is lifethreatening for sure. Do you think maybe i should step down and smell the flowers little bit more . Would you fit your tie, please . People would not recognize me if my tie was fixed. I will stay with it this way