The report and 104 pages of the appendix, i am not positive. I cannot sit here and swear at all that tom brady was involved and was the mastermind or ordered code red. There is a lot there. A lot of evidence, some really makes me uneasy. Charlie we continue with David Mccullough, the writer and historian and his latest book is called the Wright Brothers. David we need lessons in appreciation. So many times we hear about these people in school and history courses for about 10 minutes and move on. The Wright Brothers were clever mechanics, bicycle mechanics and they invented the airplane. Thats hardly a fraction of the story. They had tremendous interest in photography and architecture. They were fully alive intellectually and mentally. They also had this driving sense of purpose that i feel is essential to high achievement. Charlie the nfl released its longawaited report on deflategate. The conclusion . New England Patriots were using illegally, underinflated balls in a conference championship and Quarterback Tom Brady probably knew of the plan. Joining me is peter king of sports illustrated. He is the one person i want to talk to about that. Nobody knows more about football and no one has reported so well for so long. Tell me what you make of the report. Peter charlie, i think in the last four or five major discipline cases involving the nfl with playing rules involved. You know the new Orleans Saints and the bounty thing. The Atlanta Falcons and making artificial crowd noise in their stadium. The nfl had a smoking gun in every one of those. Here, not only does the nfl not have a smoking gun, it has a large amount of circumstantial evidence. It does not have the smoking gun and it involves one of the greatest players of all time. Charlie, what i am uneasy about with this report is someday when tom brady dies, his obituary in the new york times, if the nfl comes down hard on him in this case, the second paragraph is going to be about how the nfl slammed him for cheating in 2015. And when i read the 139 pages of the report and 104 pages of the appendix, i am not positive. I cannot sit here and swear at all that tom brady was involved and was the mastermind or ordered code red. I guess theres a lot at there. There is a lot of evidence, some really makes me uneasy. Charlie lets start way back when. How did this case began . Peter the week before the afc championship game, the general manager of the Indianapolis Colts sent an email to the nfl saying it is well known around the league that the patriots are suspected to use underinflated footballs because their quarterback, tom brady, likes a little bit softer, more pliable footballs especially in inclement weather. Before the game, the officiating supervisor from the nfl basically warned the officials on the scene in new england. You know, be on the lookout for these, you know underinflated footballs and if need be, we will check them if we suspect some of the footballs are underinflated. Charlie, there was about 810 minute period, you cannot tell from reading the report where after the footballs were okayed for use on the field during the game, the fellow who runs the officials locker room took the footballs in violation of what he is supposed to do. The footballs are supposed to be with the referee the entire time but he took them. Video surveillance shows him going into a mens room there on the field and staying in there for 100 seconds. It is theoretically possible he was either using the mens room or sticking a needle in 13 footballs. Charlie what did he say . Peter he denied sticking the needle in the footballs and is caught in a couple of lies in 4 different interviews. One lie was i never went in there and the other is i used the urinal and there no urinal only a toilet. I am not sure how much you can trust that guy. Charlie and then there are emails. Let me go back. After that, what happened to produce this report . Peter late in the first half, the colts intercepted a football and they took the football on the sideline and an equipment guy thought it felt slightly underinflated. They informed the nfl and went into the locker room and officials locker room and they measured all footballs including four footballs the Indianapolis Colts were using. They did not have time to do all their footballs and discovered most of the patriots were underinflated and launched the investigation. Charlie that is evidence, isnt it . Peter it is evidence. I will say this. One of the gauges that measured the air in the colts footballs one of the 2 gauges found three of four footballs were also underinflated. So, that is one of the slight problem, even though the patriots footballs were clearly underinflated more than the colts footballs, the colts footballs were underinflated. That is not definitive proof. Charlie the nfl and Roger Goodell appoint ted wells, a wellknown trial lawyer, highly regarded, highly respected to do an investigation in the same way they had muller do an investigation. Peter the way that ted wells did with the bullying situation with miami with incognito and jonathan martin. Charlie here you are, the guy Robert Mueller had done the other investigation and you have this guy ted wells, respected lawyer do the investigation and it takes a while to do. Why did it take so long . Peter that is a good question. It is a difficult topic and they got the runaround from some people. It took a while to get tom brady to talk. He did not release his cell phone records. The two people who work for the patriots, who are in charge of footballs, they both released their cell phones. The nfl found incriminating records both in terms of calls tom brady after not speaking to john, who basically was the guy, the honcho of the footballs. After not speaking to him for six months, spoke to him six times in three days after it was announced there was an investigation. A total of 50 minutes, six times. Not all that lengthy. But it is curious. Taken altogether makes brady looked like he has a lot to hide or was hiding a lot. There are other things i am uneasy about. One is they talk about how tom brady basically was signing a lot of stuff for these guys. Signing jerseys and helmets and autographs. A little payola. It was implied it was payola. Tom brady is one of those guys you can go into their patriots offices and see a lot of stuff that tom brady was signed. If somebody wanted something for charity, tom brady would do it. I am not saying he did not do the quid pro quo. There is no proof. Charlie we walked out together, right in front of me and said to someone later how gracious he was in everybody wanted to take a picture with him. Rather remarkable. Peter charlie, i have an interesting relationship with him. Five days after the super bowl this year, i said i want to write a column about your last 2 drives. It will probably be your greatest quarter. The number one defense and you drive the length of the field twice with the super bowl on the line having lost 2 super bowls. You have to make these 2 drives and yet the score touchdowns. We were on the phone for probably 75 minutes, five days after the game. I am the one who got off the phone, not him. I have always found him to the accommodating. Charlie it sounds i you want to get him a pass. You think it is circumstantial evidence. He has a great legacy print he is a great quarterback. He is the biggest star in the nfl. It is not sufficient evidence to hammer him. I think there is a lot peter i think theres a lot a circumstantial evidence and what the nfl will say is a preponderance of evidence that i understand. I think tom brady has questions to answer. Charlie you have any idea how the patriots or tom will respond . Peter bob kraft, the owner of the patriots, is between defiance and despond. Defiant that he has been told by Bill Belichick and tom brady absolutely unequivocally we had no idea what was going on and we do not do this. Brady has basically said nothing had happened. I did not do this. Bob kraft, that is not his thing. I would never say never. Kraft, everything he is done with a franchise has been about trying to do something to keep the team in new england, first of all. And secondly to give the people of new england team they could be proud of. That is why it hurts them. Charlie have you talked to him . Peter i have had a conversation with him but nothing on the record or nothing reportable. I am hoping in the coming days to speak to him. Charlie is there any idea of what brady is going to do . Willie have a press conference or a conversation will he have a press conference or a conversation . Peter i do not know what he will do. It is incumbent on him to do something. Charlie does he have to do something . Peter he does. America is looking at him that tommy perfect is not perfect. Charlie did he know and secondly, how is he handling the questions about it after the fact . Peter it was very curious, she did one press conference where he talked about this. Peter alexander, a correspondent of nbc news, when he talked about this, the only time he talked about it at length. Peter alexander said tom, america wants to know, are you a cheater . Brady looked at him and i am paraphrasing, i do not think so. He went on to talk about how he believes in fair play. I thought it was a curious answer. If i were him, i would say you are darn right i am not a cheater. Charlie i saw one of the guys one of the super bowl callers watch an interview and said it bothers me. That interview bothered me. He said it was not forthcoming. If i was under the same circumstances, i would be out there screaming on the top of the building i knew nothing about this. Peter i totally agree with you. That is the way i would do it, too. I would say i am outraged my character is called into question and i did not do any thing. I will say this about brady. In my conversations with him over the years, theres only one time where he really flared. One time i really saw anger. Everything else, it doesnt matter what the topic is. He is almost always measured. Almost always. I do not know why that is. I take it, that is tom brady. Charlie heres what the report said lets assume the latter part of that. Based on what you know, is it unlikely somebody would do that without toms approval or knowledge . Peter absolutely. I would agree. You had troy aikman come out and say a quarterback he said theres absolutely no way tom did not know that. A quarterback is totally involved in the preparations of the football. You have that other quarterbacks and players say they simply do not believe tom brady did not know. Charlie you do not know. You are saying peter you know what i am an easy about . What you are going to do is brand this guy something not only for the rest of his career but for the rest of his life. I am uncomfortable with all of the wording, more probable than not, is about as definitive as ted wells desperate more probable than not. Do i want to you know put this mantle on tom bradys legacy shoulders for the rest of his life based on more probable than not . Charlie how do we settle this . If they operate on the wells report, doesnt the nfl have to do something . Peter i think so. Charlie the guy they hired said probable than not. Peter this is in essence a civil trial. O. J. Simpson does not get found guilty in the criminal trial, he gets found guilty in a civil trial. He has to pay the goldman family. This reminds me all that. Maybe in a court of law, tom brady would walk. In a civil trial which is what the nfl has put him under in essence, the nfl only have to have what it feels is a preponderance of evidence. If they believe there is a preponderance of evidence, i think they will come down hard. Charlie heres what i hear you saying. He has so much to lose, tom does that if they are wrong, it is a terrible, terrible lifelong injustice to him. That is a risk they have to really think about. Peter that is a risk of they have to weigh in. If i were Roger Goodell and the executives, i would really push right now to be spending two or three hours with tom brady because i would want him to look at me and the face and hear from him about this. I am not so unsure it will not happen. But before i did that to a cornerstone of the game and i said in you are suspended, you are something, i would want to have him look me in the eye and tell me what he feels is justice and what he feels is correct. Charlie suppose at some point he does that and lets assume that whatever reason there is conclusion it was done and tom new knew. What is the appropriate punishment . Peter if there was more evidence then i have seen he did do it and i could believe conclusively that he did it, i would say he should definitely be suspended for some length of time whatever this. And even though and it would put the nfl in a huge hole, the first game of the 2015 season is new england at pittsburgh, always a real carnival atmosphere. Football is back and everybody is happy. The story is where is tom brady . He is not in the lineup because the nfl branded him a cheater. I know thats not what the nfl wants. That is not going to prevent them from making a decision. Charlie it reminds me of my friend Brian Williams. Every time you see a story, it is lying brian. This will become cheating tom. Peter i know where not talking about this but as somebody who watches nbc nightly news and ive watched Brian Williams for six years most nights, i thought he was tremendous. I really feel for him. I think is a classic case in life where i would like to see him get another shot. I understand the argument against him. It is the same thing about tom brady. The rest of this like people will look to him as say theres the guy that nfl brought to the hammer down. Charlie great to see you. Back in a moment. Stay with us. Charlie David Mccullough is here. He has been called a master of the art of narrative history. He twice won the Pulitzer Prize and is a recipient of the president ial medal of freedom. He has written 11 books including 1776 and john adams. His latest piece of history is called, the Wright Brothers and tells the story of two bicycle mechanics who taught the world how to fly. Im pleased to have David Mccullough back at the table. Welcome. This is the completion of a trilogy. David that is exactly right. The first book was about to the building of the brooklyn bridge. The second about the building of the panama canal and now this. And all three of those extraordinary accomplishments took place in a handful of years in the late 19th century and the first 10 years of the 20th century. And each in its own way was a major breakthrough without any historical precedent. This one more obviously changed the world. Man had never flown a motor powered machine into the air before. And when that happened, it was clear to a few but not to all, that this was one of the decisive turning points in history. What was so surprising, many of things were surprising to me in writing the book, what is so surprising is that you imagine they flew the first time the kitty hawk in 1903 everybody realized it was terrific and with changing the world. It was not until 1908 that the world was ready to realize that yes, man can fly. We had set our minds, that was impossible. And as so often happens with in many aspects of life, seldom so dramatically charlie what is it about the people who do this . They do not quit. David that is right. They do not to give up. And i really think it had to do something to do with where they came from. Ohio. Midwestern america. Thats not to say there are lots of other people from elsewhere that do not give up. Harry truman never gave up. Midwestern american from very humble origins as these were. And they have purpose, charlie. They have a purpose in mind and it probably sounds like a bad pun, they were determined to achieve no matter what. And every time either of them went up into one of their experimental planes, he was risking his life. It took tremendous courage and character and surprisingly for me was to see what extent of the english language was a major importance in their success. They were raised by an itinerant minister father who assisted and insisted that they use language both on paper and on their feet. And you read their letters and you think that neither one of them ever finished high school. It is humbling that and their use of the language and their humor and their foresight and everything. They grew up in a house that had no running water. No indoor plumbing. No electricity. No telephone. But it had books. The father insisted that they read and only read what he felt was important, fiction and history. Natural history and philosophy and the classics and everything, including the work of the famous agnostic ingersoll even though he was a protestant itinerant preacher, the father. He wanted a broad mind. Charlie wilbur was the dominant brother. David dominant and genius. Orville was very bright inventive, and genius mechanically. Wilbur was really the genius and the big brother. He was the leader. It would not have happened without both of them. Two heads were better than one. They are good examples of that. Charlie when did they have the idea . David they had the idea they could learn to glide. Charlie to use wind . David to use the wind and ride the wind and they study the birds of north carolina. Charlie i love that. The idea of seeing them out there trying to flap their wings. David people thought that they were wacko, nut cases. Charlie they were studying. David they were studying the birds. Learning to fly by studying birds is like learning magic from a magician. And they figured it out. No one had figured it out. And then they had to fly. They were theorists that had exciting and very ingenious ideas. Wilbur once said that there are two ways to train a wild horse one is to sit on the fence and study and go to your comfortable chair in your living room and write your theory about how to train a horse and the other way to get on the horse and ride it. Exactly. They were bicycle mechanics. Exactly as you said the only way to ride a bicycle is to ride a bicycle. They not only had the skill and the ingenuity and the genius to create a glider that would do more than any other glider had but they courage to do it. They were not defeated by failure. They learned from their mistakes. That is a marvelous lesson for all of us to learn. Charlie i guess it was orville who told a friend, it is not true to say we had a special advantage, the greatest english growing up in a family where there was much encouragement. David intellectual curiosity. I think how youre brought up it is more important than we thought. We put a lot of emphasis on education and we should. Charlie for better or worse. David how you were raised, the manners you were taught, what we are taught about loyalty and telling the truth and taught about being kind to people . All that begins at home. And the dinner table. And the conversations about behavior and aspirations. Their father was an exceptional teacher. And their sister who was important in this story, im have to say i brought a lot of trouble and time and effort bringing her front and center stage because she deserves it. She was bright. She was bossy. She was funny. She was opinionated. She had a temper. She could get wrathy. She was always there when they needed her. She was as bright as could be. She was only one of the group who went to college. Charlie does she remind you of Emily Roebling . David yes, sir. And abigail adams. Very strongly. And i think that the story would not have come out the way it did, had it not been for her. I think one of the joys of the work i do is to give credit where credit is long overdue. Charlie and find unrecognized characters. David we need lessons in appreciation and so many of these people we just hear about them in school, history courses for about 10 minutes and we move on. The Wright Brothers were the clever mechanics, the mechanics and they invented the airplane. Thats hardly a fraction of the story. The idea they had tremendous interest in art and architecture and photography. There was no they were fully alive intellectually, mentally but they also had this driving sense of purpose that i feel is essential to high achievement on that scale, on that level. Charlie what was that . David purpose. Charlie i do, too. David they were not trying to make a lot of money or achieve fame. They did not like the limelight. They avoided it. Charlie were they trying to change the world . David they were sure that man could do this and they thought they had the answer and they did. And they had no money. The entire expenses, all of the expenses for the first plane in 1903 was less than 1000. Samuel langely and his group at the smithsonian spent 70,000 trying to build an airplane that would fly and it flew into the potomac river. Charlie what did they not understand . David they did not understand you have to get on the horse and ride it. Charlie yes, yes. What was the role of photography . David they loved photography and were interested in technical reason. It was advancing very rapidly. If you look at the photograph on the cover of the book or inside front page. That is a sharp as anything we can take today. It is unbelievable. From the original glass plate. And photography had been revolutionized and they were fascinated by it and they also wanted to record everything they did in order to protect themselves from people who would violate their patents. Charlie was it a race . David no. I do not think they saw it. Charlie often in discoveries, medical discoveries, there is a race. The human genome. A huge race. David they were aware of other people trying to do what they were doing. Mostly samuel langley. Charlie did anybody come close . David really nothing to them. No. Charlie and a supporter of the Wright Brothers compare the achievement to that of christopher columbus. David yes. Charlie you . David yes, absolutely. Charlie they discovered further worlds. David you and i and everybody today goes everywhere, last year at ohare in chicago, 70 Million People flew in and out of that one airport. Charlie 70 million . David yes. 1903 was not that long ago. I could have known orville wright. He did not die until 1948. I wouldve been 15 years old. He could have been that nice old fellow around the corner. Charlie 1958 . David 1948. It is a fraction of time as history goes. It is all out. You cannot imagine a more dramatic change and hugely changed horrors of warfare. He lived to see jet propulsion. He lived to see rockets. It all happened very fast once they got the key. Charlie you said history fosters optimism in comparison to the hubris. David yes. I feel that way. Charlie tell me what you mean. David first of all, it shows there was no simpler time ever. And anybody who thinks that, doesnt understand that times past were very difficult. Very heartbreaking and destructive. Suffering in the extreme. Terrific mistakes made caused anguish of thousands of millions of people. But we came out of those dark times, we human beings. We do figure out what went wrong. And how to fix it. And we do make extraordinary improvements in the quality of life. Look at what is happening in medicine here in my lifetime. Unbelievable. And charlie we are on the precipice of so much, it is just extraordinary. And we have already achieved so much. David look at what we have achieved in our universities. Yes, they are expensive. But we have created the greatest universities in the world, the greatest universities ever in the world. All here. All in a manner of a few hundred years. Why are all of these very bright young people from all over the world trying to come here to go to college and universities . Because this is the greatest in the world. Charlie 18 of the top 20. David that is very promising. Very exciting. And i think that if we have leadership that calls upon us to serve and then theres really no end of what we can do. That is my optimism. It has been 50 years since we have had a president of the United States who called upon us to ask to do something for our country. I mean jack kennedy. Charlie the moon. David if these young people were called upon charlie they will see what this president needs or leader needs is to show the country needs to have a moon project. A bold vision we can get here if we apply ourselves and im going to put my own credibility on the line to say that we do not do this. David you can use this story of the Wright Brothers. They set themselves on the path to achieve the unachievable. Kennedy said we are going to go to the moon and we did. And they flew. Charlie you call what you do a calling. David yes, i do. Charlie how is it a calling for you . It is simply you tell me. David i want to bring to life the best that can be found in the story of why we are the way we are and how we got to where we are. It does not mean it is all good news, all wonderful. Not by any means. I think what really happened is not only as interesting as stories that are concocted but often more interesting. I have always thought of myself as a writer. Not a historian. Im writing about what really happens. I am not going to make anything up. Im not going to change any facts and figures. Charlie what is the gift . You have the calling, what is the gift . David telling the story. Theres no trick to history. I tell stories. That is what it is. And great stories. Charlie and stories about real things and real people. David we should not just think of history as politics and the military, which is a huge part of it. It is not everything. That is why i have done what ive done with her book and others ive written are not about politics. Yes, politics and the military entered in but not about that. I think the future historians looking back on our time are going to be talking about other things in politics and military that we achieved in our time or mistakes we have made other than politics. Charlie you have said all of your books are about one of the first books you read, the little engine that could. [laughter] charlie that is the common denominator. David i think i can, i think i can. As i was saying, how we are brought up. That is the kind of book that i was raised on. Charlie i love this. Orville wright said no bird soars in a calm. So fundamental, so true. David adversity helps. The old irish saying may the wind always be at your back. Charlie i love that. David they take the reverse. You need the wind and to give you the lift. Charlie you got an Honorary Degree from yale. You got this salutation a historian that paints with words. Pictures of the American People that live, breathe and above all confront the fundamental issues of courage and achievable. Most of the people have moral character . David yes. John adams, abigail adams, harry truman. Charlie why have you never written about lincoln . David too big. Too big a subject. Huge. It has been done. Charlie as soon as i hear you say that, i resist the idea. I resist the idea because too often people will say it has been done. And then someone of the skills of David Mccullough do it and they say, wow. David thank you. I admire the people who have written about lincoln. I like to have the discovery. Charlie you do not think theres much new to discover . David i do not. This book, coming upon the private letters between wilbur and their sister charlie how did you come upon them . David they are in the library of congress. Much has been written. There have been fine books written about the Wright Brothers and they deal primarily with the aviation side. I was interested in it that, of course, but equally are more in the human side. That can be found in the private correspondence which is spectacular. They pour out their innermost feelings and there are over 1000 letters. Just between the father and daughter and two brothers. And none of them are capable of writing a dull letter. Charlie have we lost that . David yes. We do not write letters or keep diaries. No one in public life would dare keep a diary. I do not know what future historians and biographers will have to work with. And charlie john adams wrote voluminously. David and abigail. There were thousands of letters between them. Charlie have you been to the Public Theater to see the play the musical hamilton . David not yet but im eager. Charlie get it on your agenda. Great to see you. David charlie, is always a treat to be your guest. Thank you. Charlie how is your wife . David she is perfect. She is my editor in chief and my guiding star. She is the Mission Control for our family. Chair of the ethics committee. Charlie send her my best. David she is marvelous. Thank you. We have been married 60 years. Charlie David Mccullough. The book is called the Wright Brothers. Back in a moment. Stay with us. Charlie we conclude with warren buffett, the 84yearold businessman celebrated his 50th anniversary of Berkshire Hathaway in omaha over the past weekend. One of the things was a spoof on the Floyd Mayweather fight you will never see. Warren charlie, i do not think it is such a great idea. You are the boss. Hey, charlie, almost 8 00. I have a very important meeting. We will talk about it tomorrow. Debbie . Until i tell you, i do not want to be disturbed. His aspirations is in tmt. Is it hubris . Or is see making history . Each remaining fight brings Floyd Mayweather closer to the answer. Coming off the most lucrative night boxing has ever known, he seems even more powerful than ever. Floyd mayweather remains money in las vegas. Hey, floyd. Warren buffett is here. Warren buffett . Hey warren mayweather, you are going down you have an ugly face. [bleep] [bleep] [bleep] Floyd Mayweather you are a dead man, buffett. Charlie this is a special report, we interrupt with startling news from las vegas, nevada. In an Extraordinary Development this afternoon, warren buffett, known as the oracle of omaha, has challenged current champion Floyd Mayweather for the Welterweight Championship of the world and mayweather has accepted his challenge. Buffet fighting under the berkshire bomber is going to face undefeated floyd in the mgm grand in las vegas just 10 days from now. Warren mayweather asked to meet but i was too busy. If warren loses, i get his office. I have been trying to set up a meeting with mr. Buffett for over three weeks will we ask. Now they say he is in training. Really, training . [rocky theme playing] go. Faster. Faster. [rocky theme playing] announcer live from the mgm the biggest money fight in a boxing history brought to you by dairy queen, nebraska furniture mart, geico. Cns effort runway. Netjets. Lubrizol. [boxing ring bell] announcer ladies and gentlemen, good evening and welcome to the mgm grand arena in las vegas, nevada. The time has come for the bout you have been waiting for. Really needing no introduction the world over wearing blue trunks in las vegas by way of grand rapids, michigan. Introducing the undefeated, the one and only floyd money mayweather and across the ring fighting out of omaha, nebraska, wearing black trunks, weighing in at 100 35 pounds, the berkshire bomber worn buffet. Announcer the coolest of the cool have come out for this prizefight. The oracle of omaha has packed the house in mgm grand. The mgm stands for mayweather gets monied. This walk to the ring has been paved with gold on numerous occasions. And there is buffett fueling up with a coke and a smile. While life maybe a box of chocolates for buffet, hed know he will get a great return on his investment. [bell] announcer and here we go with the main event of the evening. 12 rounds of boxing for the super Welterweight Championship of the world. And now ladies and gentlemen boxing fans joining us around the world, live from the mgm grand in las vegas, it is showtime steve give me the sports book. John, it is steve. I heard you got a lot of action mayweather will not survive the fight. I love that it. Put me down for 100 grand. Announcer and now the referee in a charge, hall of famer, he is fair but stern, joe. I expect a good clean fight. Protect yourselves. Do you have any questions, do you have any questions . You going to wear those classes glasses . You are damn right. Despite aint going to last long. This fight will not last long. The fight the entire world has been anticipating. The broker has come to a halt for buffett versus mayweather. And they come out of their respective corners. Buffet bobbing and weaving. Mayweather looking to collect all of the data with a victory. With a victory tonight, buffett stock would skyrocket. He winds up. Hey, debbie. Did you pay the cable bill this month . The following is a paid advertisement for time life and starvista. Announcer in the 50s and 60s, Country Music poured out of the honky tonks. Music history was made. Legends were born. We heard classic hits. It was the golden age of country