Transcripts For BLOOMBERG Charlie Rose 20150204

From our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. The super bowl ended in dramatic fashion last night. The new England Patriots defeated the Seattle Seahawks 2824. The patriots fought back from a 10point deficit in the fourth quarter. It concluded with a costly interception in the final minutes, giving new england its fourth title in 14 years. We played against a phenomenal defense and ultimately made enough plays. Tom brady surpassed joe montanas mark of 11 super bowl touchdown passes. Many consider him the greatest quarterback in nfl history. Joining me is bill cowher of tv cbs sports. His team defeated the Seattle Seahawks in super bowl 40. I am pleased to have him. Where would you rank this super bowl . It is going to be near the top. With everything you have going into it, the two best teams in football, you knew it would live up to its hype, and just the avenue and flow of it, and for a play to come down to a in at the 1yard line, it is going to be one of the top three super bowls in my mind. Just extraordinary plays. Extraordinary receptions by extraordinary receivers. Tom brady, Russell Wilson scrambling, running. Bringing his team back. Extraordinary. The other thing about it, you had a kid like Chris Matthews who weve never heard of step up, and he gets four catches over 100 yards. A kid named malcolm butler, a free agent corner, made the play of the game. A game of superstars that was yet determined by guys who came off the street, trying to utilize the moment and opportunity. Or are so many story so many things you can talk about. Yes, the play call. Unfortunately, that is one pete carroll is going to have to live with. So will Russell Wilson, although i assume he didnt make the call. How do you come back from that . How do you get right in your mind from for the next season so it doesnt have a longterm impact on you . For seattle, this is two years in a row theyve been there. For them and that team, that is not that hard. They expect to be there. As time goes on, we saw tom brady, the last time he had won a super bowl was 10 years ago. As i said, this is one of those ones where he understands how hard it is to get there. For seattle, for that young teen, they have been there twice in the last two years. I want to stay away from things like secondguessing and that, but ask the question Sports Illustrated said that was simply the most astounding play call in nfl history, and other people have said similar things to that. Explain why they passed. Why would they do that . When you look at the time, it was running down. In their mindset, they thought it was second down. If you are ever going to throw its on second down. According to pete carroll, the personnel new england had in there was more designed to stop than run. They didnt have a lot of corners. Their thinking was, you throw it here, and if its incomplete you run the ball on third and fourth down. I think the interception was the last thing in their mind. When you put the ball in the air, and after marshawn had gone three yards, you just want to score. You almost want to outthink yourself as opposed to doing the right thing and handing the ball to that back. What is the likelihood that if he had three attempts Marshawn Lynch would have scored that touched on . 99 . I think he would have scored the first time. I do too. He had a great body language. You know, again, it is one of those ones where they didnt give credit to what they can do, with that offensive line, that back. They reacted to what new england threw at them. Sometimes in this great strategical game, you have the football, and you can outthink yourself. As far as you know, who made the call for the past . Was it pete carroll . Pete lets aaron bevill, the offensive coordinator, call the plays. The head coach must take responsibility. That was not Pete Carrolls call. That happened so quickly. I dont think he gave any thought to an interception right there. His thinking was, if its incomplete, its incomplete. An interception never entered his mind. Again, the turnover never entered his mind. Without a doubt, there is no way pete made that call, but he took responsibility for it. What about a quarterback sneak . To be honest with you anything except throwing the ball over the middle, because so many bad things can happen. A ball can get tipped or intercepted. This is a tough one. You almost thought fate was on their side. The pass to kearse two plays earlier, it was just remarkable. Here comes seattle doing it again, coming from behind. They were down going into the fourth quarter, and yet they came back and had that last drive to win the game. You just thought it was inevitable. That is a tough one because you have to live with that one. No one ever says one play determines the game. That is about as close as you can get to it. Who played the better game . I thought new england play the better game. Tom brady throws an ill advised interception in the first half. I thought tom brady and bill belichick, what they did is they took the matchup of shame for eating the backfield, they took the matchup of gronkowski and the linebacker, and used Julian Edelman across the middle. I thought Russell Wilson made some big plays, particularly to Chris Matthews. Marshawn lynch ran the ball very well, but when you look at the overall picture, that interception that tom brady threw in the end zone, i thought they played a better game, but it was a game played well by both teams. It is one of the top three super bowls ever played. I do, too. It was such a pleasure to watch that game and see so many remarkable athletes doing what they do so well. I thank you for joining us. Next time, we will watch this together. I will see you out in San Francisco next year. Super bowl 50, i will be there. Cbs will be there. It will be fun. We will be right back. Stay with us. Ian bremer is here. He is the president and founder of the Global Political risk and research group, eurasia group. In his 2015 report, he writes russia continues its aggression in ukraine despite sliding into a depression. The u. S. Is considering providing defensive weapons to kiev. Europe is at a Tipping Point with an election in greece that rejected austerity. President obama returned from his historic trip to india and saudi arabia. I am pleased to have ian bremmer. Tipping point may be too strong of a word, but we will come back to that. Saudi arabia . You get a sense that this administration now believes it needs to strengthen the relationship. The u. S. Saudi relationship was not on lifesupport but certainly had a downward trajectory over the last couple of years. The saudis were more than happy to let us know that publicly. I think it was a good move for obama to cut short the cultural portion the taj mahal. And show up in riyadh. He hasnt made the best decisions on foreign trips recently. Recently. This was the right one. Everyone is secondguessing him. Paris. He should have sent biden. There is no question that sending going himself to reand showing personal support and engagement. He brought jim baker and condoleezza rice. He brought the entire bipartisan, senior team. He brought the 18. You wish a lot of those guys were in the administration these days. He brought strategy. It was good to see that the americans understand that even though oil prices are low, and we dont need the saudis the way we used to, and the middle east doesnt have the same resonance in the u. S. That it used to be have, the fact is, this part of the world still matters. We dont know what we want to do yet in the fight against isis. We can go two directions. We should talk about the saudis first. Im somebody who believes that the saudi king certainly did an awful lot to get ready for this transition before of Dola Abdullah died. When you look at the top four players in saudi politics, they represent consensus, and they are strong leaders. Theyve got a succession in place. It goes to a Younger Generation in the end. Only two things the most immediate implication of that is that saudi oil policy is going to be very stable for the coming 36 months. They want to show there is no change from what they had before. If you are one of the people who believed i thought this was possible that the saudis might take oil off the market, particularly because at a 50 price, they are running a 120 billion deficit in 2015, 1 6 of their reserves, they dont want to do that for too long. What is their purpose . Their purpose is to maintain market share and maintain influence globally. Their purpose is more directed to iran, isnt it . I dont believe. Im not someone who believes that the saudis are saying, we need to squeeze the price lower because that is going to diminish the geopolitical influence of iran. I think the saudis are playing a longerterm game. What is the Global Environment . What is their market share . What is their economy . If they were going to take oil off to put the price up, they cant do that now. Have to wait for longer. That is bearish for oil prices. Also, continuity. That is one thing. The other thing that matters for those who have seen the king recently, people say he has earlystage alzheimers. That he is not always as coherent as you would like. And i have not heard this from just one or two people, i have heard it from 10. He appointed his son as minister of defense, 35 years old. He has done his best to make sure none of the last four Deputy Ministers of defense got the job. He is not super competent. King salmon himself had been defense minister before. He clearly is setting this up for succession, but if hes not doing that well, the financial that he would move him into the crown prince slot, which would be destabilizing, is a real. That is the one i would watch out for over the next 18 months. We could be in an environment where the leader of the saudi kingdom are you saying that you think the relationship with saudi arabia is all about oil or more about the influence of saudi arabia in the region and wanting to be on their right side so we can benefit from whatever impact they might have with their friends and neighbors, and because they are in opposition to iran, hezbollah, and other shiites . They are both incredibly important, but i think the variable this all starts from, the reason why the saudis can be so influential in the region and can provide the money that sometimes works against the United States and has led to destabilization, but also is propping up the Egyptian Government, propping up the jordanian government, propping up what is left of the lebanese government, that comes from oil. What would happen if they didnt do that . Would the Egyptian Government collapse . When you are talking about an oil price that is leading to them diminishing their reserves by 6 in 12 months, you are looking over two or three yours time, the saudis would have to significantly reduce the aid they are putting in the region. That would certainly destabilize egypt. Here is what i really dont understand. Most people i know believe that oil prices are going to go back up to around 70, at least, in the next 18 months, right . I dont think that is consensus at this point. I am in that camp. The majority opinion is that it is going to stay lower . I think the majority opinion is lower than that, and i think people are all over the map about where we are going to be. There are some people who are credible that think oil could be going down below 40 and is staying there for a long time. 10 years . Three years. The reason i ask that, there are speculators who are saying it is going to go up to 70. Im going to buy as much as i can get. Its on the market. Where are you going with that on the saudi question . If you buy oil from the saudis and store it somewhere and waiting for the price to go back up. The chinese, seeing the price low, they have been buying it up. More than you need i know you dont want to just get in to oil, but on the other side, you see a lot of people saying it is going to take a long time before you to Great American production, in part because in some states, there are tax benefits if oil prices go under 50, there are insurance mechanisms. People in the industry that ive been talking to about this question, there are a lot of them that really believe it is going to take a significant period of time, even if the saudis were going to move a bit, where the oil price is going to bump back to the 70, 80 range. Let me move to india. The president shortened his trip to india to attend the funeral and he brought all these other people there. What is the relationship with india and with modi . The appearance is that those two get along quite well. President obama and Prime Minister modi. I think they do. Modi is cautious in his personal relationships. He is someone who does not respond to the kind of emotional warmth, the gregariousness that a lot of leaders then he and the president should be in a great place. [laughter] that is true. In that regard, they are both looking more at interests than is their chemistry . Modi is not a guy that you are going to have a lot of chemistry with. What is modi looking for, and what is the u. S. Looking for . What is interesting about modi, when modi meets with abe he talks about the fact that it is interesting that japan has been able to build such a strong economic relationship with their principal adversary, china. Modi thinks of china as their principal adversary. Longterm and on everything. Japans interest on the one hand, they have all of this cultural enmity, but it is not as if japan is building a massive military. India is an emerging market. They are going to start competing with the chinese head on. India really does have a military. Nuclear weapons. Yeah. They are much more natural competitors with the chinese if the indians get their act together. If there is anything about modi, he intends to get indias act together. He sees china as a potential competitor for water resources. He sees a relationship with the United States as a useful hedge. There was a lot of talk about serious longterm partnerships. Doesnt the president see the relationship with india as a very useful hedge against china . I dont think the president spends a lot of time thinking about india, but to the extent he is there and he wants it to be solid i always thought his pivot to asia was about that he would have strong relationships with chinas neighbors, india and japan, as well. South korea. Vietnam, four. Everybody except north korea. There is a question about how much obama is committed to the notion. That is more of a hillaryplus thing. Pivoting does imply that you have one foot that moves. I dont know which foot weve moved. Ok, so it was hillary it wasnt the president. Having said that, you and i have talked at length about the transpacific partnership, the trade deal. That is a big deal. Obama has spent some time working on his relationship with abe. That matters. This historic meeting, the first time an american president has ever gone for the republic day trip in india first time invited is a big deal symbolically. Obama made the most of it. I think this was a good trip. I dont think you couldve gotten much more. In saudi arabia, the present the president left with a better understanding and perhaps turning the relationship in more of a positive way . There are very serious issues between the americans and saudis on how youre going to deal with isis on the ground. What is the perception in the middle east about how this struggle against isil is handling . What is the status on the ground, first in iraq and then in syria . If you look at what has happened in iraq so far, you have had six months of bombing so far and some Ground Support in iraq. Kobani being in syria, an example of success. You want to start with iraq. Im giving you a hard time. So far, the americans believe as of now we have killed with the coalition about 6000 isis fighters. That is between 15,00030,000 total, which is a lot, but we also believe isiss recruiting about 1000 foreign fighters a month from outside. Six months times 1000, weve killed 6000, how are we doing . Are we regaining ground in iraq . We are. We are regaining ground in iraq. We are losing ground in syria although we are not fighting asthma in syria. I hear the British Foreign minister saying that, within two years, we believe we can destroy isis in iraq. He is not mentioning syria. We dont have a strategy for destroying isis as a whole. When you are talking specifically about one place that they exist, and clearly they are going to move, and they have the ability to move, they dont respect state boundaries the fact that our strategy respects state boundaries and isiss strategy doesnt come is something that gives the military there was a report in the wall street journal, an interview with the general in charge, and he says they are developing a plan to take back mosul. Its the second largest city in iraq. They are. They are clearly working on that. In terms of iraq, the single biggest thing you have to do to destroy isis is take back most mosul. Former secretary gates thinks 1000 boots on the ground thanks you need that to make that happen. Is that to advise or to fight . I would say it is more to advise. It is less than fight. It is intel. It is being able to point out targets that could be used directly by the military to oust them. It is not actually taking weapons in your hands and engaging. In syria, have we changed at all our attitude about not trying to overthrow as a top priority, Bashar Alassad . Once we agreed with the russians i dont think this is new. I think this has been coming for a few years. Is it official, so to speak . I dont think they will say it officially. No one has been speaking of the fact that assad must go, and john kerry said that relentlessly when he was going to bomb. Look, im sure that there are many in washington right now who privately dont mind the fact that two of americas principal adversaries are fighting each other. There are a lot of people in the middle east that understand the utility of that. Having said that, isis, you cant leave them alone, because they are able their brand matters, and they will gain strength from International Fighters coming to support them. They will be able to get others around the world to engage in attacks on their behalf, as weve seen. They have a lot of money. They can by people. Buy people that are kidnapped. Japan feels like they have experienced their 9 11. You hear this from many japanese on the ground. The beheadings . Compared to what weve seen in the u. S. , small ball, but the japanese have never experienced anything like this before. It is sending shockwaves through their society. How will they respond . Abe responded interestingly. He said they would pay. Thats a would pay for this. Revenge. It is almost something you would hear from president bush or president obama. Or Prime Minister netanyahu. You wonder what that means. Certainly, you expect to see the japanese engage more directly. In terms of how much support they will provide for fighting isis i think abe needs to make a Statement Like that. Back to israel, what does the election look like in march . What does it look like, and has this whole business about addressing congress backfired on Prime Minister netanyahu . It has in the u. S. , no question. I was surprised that they did it. I think ambassador dermer has taken a hit on the basis of this, acting too fast, too loose. We expected they would tell obama. Many democrats, of course, have jumped off this and said, we dont want andy part of this any part of this. Netanyahus willingness to play politics is significant. I see this absolutely as, number one, just how bad the relationship between netanyahu and obama directly is, but i also see it as netanyahu disrespecting the office of the president. That is a big statement that americans dont like to see. Going in there and speaking to congress against the wishes of the president , something that would be detrimental to his negotiations with iran . Not only that, but the fact you had members of Israeli Intelligence coming out with john kerry saying that they disagree with netanyahu. If you want to get congress to vote with you, tell them consistently what your policy is. You cant have that kind of public disagreement with the mossad. You probably also saw that netanyahu was asked by president hollande, we would prefer it if you didnt show up at rallies after the Charlie Hebdo massacre, and not only did he show up, but he actually said on the ground in paris, if jews are not welcome here in france, you are welcome in israel. You say this after the 9 11 incident . That is the equivalent of when prince ahweled came to new york and said, we will give you 10 million, and mayor giuliani ripped the check up. It is not that the point was wrong. It is that the timing and the insensitivity to the nation that is supposed to be your ally was huge. I think netanyahu, he clearly doesnt care. Assuming he wins, and the likelihood is he will, the relationship he has with the United States and a lot of people hes going to need work with for a long time, it is likely going to be damaged. He is very close to this ambassador. Hes not taking an american citizen. I kind of wonder if i were him, when you do things that are clearly seen as against the American National interest, but you are working for the interests of another country how do you square that individually . I would love to asking that question personally. I dont think i could do it. I think he is seen by netanyahu as incredibly effective in an environment where it takes a street fighter. And they are very close. He is a body man. Absolutely. I have a hard time imagining netanyahu would have no reason to get rid of this guy. We did have an election in greece. Yes, we did. You have to learn a lot of new names. What is he going to insist on . What is the new Prime Minister going to insist on . Is he going to insist on negotiating the debt . Is that all he is asking, or is he going to deny the debt . Does he care whether he is in the euro zone or not . He cares. Does Angela Merkel care . She cares less than she used to. The germans believe, mistakenly in my view, they believe they have ring fenced the contagion of a greek exit. If worse comes to worse and the greeks are completely unpleasant to deal with, and they make it politically damaging to merkel both domestically but also within the eu what can she do . She can say, thats it. There is no more money. We are not passing an extension of the bailout, or we are not going to pass any further funds, and you are going to default. A greek exit is more possible when you and i talked about this two years ago, i thought there was no chance at all of the greek exit because the politics were completely what would happen economically if it gets out of the eurozone . Obviously, the banks are liquid, and the shortterm hit for the Greek Economy is enormous. They have to rebuild from scratch. They are also out of this common market, and that has a lot of implications in terms of trade. What happens to their creditors . The bonds will increasingly be trading with wider margins. You move towards a crisis before you hit a crisis. A month ago, nobody thought this was a real issue. Then youve got the greek side of it, and the real question is, what does tsipras want . He is all over the map. I dont think hes necessarily unreasonable. He is clearly starting with maximalist demands understanding that this is the beginning of a negotiation. You dont reveal your final position when you havent even met with merkel as Prime Minister. None of the cabinet, including his partners, the independent greeks, none of them have been in office before. They are former academics that have some ideas in the theory, but they have very little experience. They came out all piss and vinegar. We dont represent the troika. We are going to default. We will blow this up if we have to. We will go if the russians if we have to. The first actions taken by the foreign minister was to basically say, we refuse to accept this eu letter going after pressure on ukraine. The first action by the defense minister was laying a wreath in these contested territories, the islands between greece and turkey. There was some sympathy from the president of france. And from mr. Renzi. Does that suggest there is a renaissance in terms of left governments . It suggests there are a lot of countries that would love to see the end of germanled austerity so they could line up and say, we would like to spend more money than we have, too. An end to german austerity is very popular. That is one of the reasons why the germans cant give up. There is a deal to be done here. Everyone recognizes it. Everyone recognizes that the greeks cant pay presently at the rate they are expected to what they owe. There must be growth in greece. The question about russia and ukraine. It is just going from bad to worse. It is getting worse. You now have the americans understanding we are having a hard time keeping the europeans on sanctions. There is very little left to escalate without serious potential backlash both for the europeans and the Global Financial markets. That is now we are talking about providing weapons to ukraine. It is extremely controversial because nobody expects russia to back down. Today, you have the head of the separatists in southeast ukraine cut saying he is calling for a mobilization of 100,000 troops. Im wondering how many of those wont come from ukraine. Where will they come from . If they dont come from ukraine, they will come from russia. Implausible diet deniability works very well for the russians. Ian bremmer, a columnist for Time Magazine and founder of eurasia group. Back in a moment. Stay with us. The life and deaths of robert durst is a new six part hbo documentary series that details the case of the heir to a wealthy family. He was never charged. Two decades later, he admitted to killing and dismembering his neighbor in texas. A jury acquitted him on grounds of selfdefense. Here is the trailer to the jinx. How old were you when your mother died . 7. They said i killed my wife and killed susan byrne, i murdered horace black, and its quite possible hes killed a whole slew of other people. They had the evidence. I know hes innocent. He has managed to get away with three murders. Ive believed him from the beginning. A lot of smoke doesnt mean fire, but there is a lot of smoke here. Joining me now is the director, Andrew Jarecki and mark stirling, producer and cinematographer. I am pleased to have them both here. Update me on the friedmans. After we made it, many people came to us and said, i didnt talk to you at the time you are making the film, now where i see this is going, i can tell you i lied to the police. We were amazed to see how much of the movement there was. We got back involved in the case, we interviewed lots of people, and have gone on a Second Circuit come out with a decision saying there is a reasonable likelihood it was a wrongful conviction. The reason for that is people lied to you . I think people lied to the police. Most of them who spoke to us told us the truth. Most of them said, we never experienced any of the abuse that was claimed, but then later, many of them can forward and said, i was embarrassed to say at the time i lied to the police. They put so much pressure on me. Do you believe he was innocent . I do believe he was innocent. You are leading the charge . Doing what we can. Its an interesting job for a filmmaker to go back into a subject, especially when there is no pending film, and saying we would like to see this case overturned. How did you come into contact with the family . Originally, mark and i grew up in a ride. We were a couple of towns over from scarsdale. Bob durst was sort of a famous resident because he was this interesting character. He had been born in a tremendously luxurious way, to a family that is a multibilliondollar family. Somehow, he ended up in a rooming house in galveston texas, disguised as a mute woman. Somehow. Many things led him to that. [laughter] therein lies the tale. Tell me about him. Bob is when we were writing the movie, it was easy to sort of we tried to reach out to him, and he wasnt going to participate in the writing of the movie. Later on, when we met andrew in los angeles, i can remember walking up and feeling like my heart was pumping away. Ive been studying this guy for three or four years now. Once you sit down with him, you very quickly i think this is probably true with most people you very quickly put aside what you preconceive of what he is, and you see who the person is. Hes charming. Hes funny. Hes selfdeprecating. He has weird quirks. Like what . He blinks a lot. He burps. He does things that i think most people would find they wouldnt want to do, but he seems to be his own man. He does what he wants. How did he get away with crime . The murder in texas is the only one he was tried for. He got away because he pled selfdefense and convince the jury that was the case. He had very good legal counsel. He had a team, actually, of texas lawyers. In the film at one point, he admits that he hired them all. Why should we care about him . I think this is kind of an amazing, unique human story, but but it is also happening on an operatic level. You are dealing with a family that has tremendous reach. They are a private family but enormously powerful. They are building the bank of america tower, the conde nast building, the Freedom Tower on the site of the world trade center. Its an important family. Its an unusual story. You rarely have somebody accused of this kind of series of grisly crimes who is also the sign of this enormously powerful family. Hes the one in texas accused of murdering his wife. The wealthiest man in texas thats right. Not only murdering his wife but his wifes daughter. A terrible case. Getting his cooperation people sometimes say, when we talk about what we are working on, does bob know what you are doing . They know weve been working on this for years. I always say, does he know what we are doing . It was his idea. Bob saw our film about him and reached out to me and said, i would like to talk. This is the Motion Picture film. People saw a ryan gosling playing him in a movie and thought we had painted a relatively sympathetic portrait of him, at least a fair portrait of him, and he said, nobody has really understood me. Ive seen the movie. I cried three times. Its an emotional movie. I would like to talk more with you. We got together with him and his lawyers. It was fascinating. I called mark and said, guess who i got a phone call from . The first meeting was very interesting with his lawyer. We got together here in new york. I met with a lawyer a couple of times. The lawyer sat down and said bob, youve asked me what andrew wants to do. I know it you have considered, sitting down, doing and an interview about your life, and ive come to the conclusion i think this is the worst idea ive ever heard in my life. You should never do it. Number one, youve been falsely accused of three murders over 30 years. You have your liberty. You are wandering around wealthy and happy. There is nothing that sitting down with the filmmaker and participating in a grueling interview is going to do to improve your life. The question they always ask is, what is in it for me . They always want to know. Why should i do this . What did you tell him . First of all, he called me. Of course. His lawyer weighed in and said this is the worst idea. What he said was no different from what any of us might think. Nobody wants to die without telling their story. Bob has had his story told over 30 years by every tabloid. It is frustrating because his family, this powerful family they do tons of work, and they will spend 30 years assembling some giant parcel of real estate. If they are lucky, they will get a small article in the new york times. Bob buys a few bars, and hes on the front page of the new york post. Bob is used to having people doing a burlesque version of his life, and he craved having somebody do this type of deep dive. Knowing that we would do the work, actually do the work to understand what truly happened you would come in and do the homework and have an open mind. Sure. He said to you that, i think of myself as a person who was born with a burden i couldnt carry. I said to him, some people say you are the unluckiest guy in the world because you lost your beloved wife, you lost your best friend, and you lost your neighbor who was your good friend, your elderly, across the home neighbor in august and. Another person said you are the luckiest guy in the world because you killed your wife your best friend, your neighbor, and you got away with it. Remember when you first heard about bob . Bob was out with his friends, and that is how she met him. Its the worst thing that ever happened, i think. Really. If you had him sitting here what would you say to him . What did you do to her . Where is she . What did you do with her . I didnt meet him right away. I heard about him, that he was courting her, and that she was very swept off her feet. He just came on like prince charming, and she was basically cinderella. She thought i was good looking in my own way. Cute, or whatever it was. She was very outgoing and social and got along with people really good. She was perfect. I dont get along with people. Most people dont get along with me. There he is. [laughter] what is intriguing . What was the most surprising thing you discovered in this journey . There were a lot of surprising things we discovered. It is very much the way the structure of the series is, it is very much our journey. I guess the most surprising thing for me was the reaction of the durst family. I was sort of shocked by how we were closed out from them, how the one durst Family Member who came forward to speak to us was sort of punished, for lack of a better word, and how they just to this day, dont seem to want to discuss this sisterinlaw, daughterinlaw who disappeared. It is just erased from their history. As you said, this is a story about bob, and yet, it is a story about both of us, the story of you and bob. I think that there was no way. Mark and i, as we worked on this, weve known each other since eight or nine years old, so we sort of operate as one unit, and he would be in the edit room, and i would be off doing Something Else he would say, you are in this a lot now. There is no getting around it. Bob reached out to me. He felt, for whatever reason comfortable that i would give him the fairest hearing. Then we get wound into the story. It is impossible that we not be a part. This is another clip. This is where cathys friend talks about her fear of robert durst. I was having a Late Afternoon dinner party for my family. Cathy really wasnt invited, but when she called, she said, i need to get out of here. Im not going to tell my best friend no. Everybody was getting along, and everybody was enjoying. It was just a nice evening. I can remember very clearly the telephone call. Bobby insisting that cathy come home, and cathy being visibly shaken after the phone call. She went out and warmed up the mercedes. She came back in and said, im leaving now. We stood on the front porch, and she said, promise me, if something happens, you will check it out. I said, kathy, of course. You can count on me. It didnt even register that she was telling me that for some dreadful reason. I just didnt get it. What was that dreadful reason . Gilberta, who is a dear friend of kathys, is quite convinced that bob was planning to kill his wife that night. Bob says he took his wife to the 9 17 train. That was the last time he ever saw her, but there are lots of other people who say that she never got back to the city. If you are going to do something bad to your wife in westchester county, it is not a bad idea to report her missing in new york city. It confuses everybody. What is incredible about this story for me is the point that he comes from the family that he comes from, that the family has the attitude that they do, that youve got the story youve even got access to court videos. That was a very extraordinary situation. We do a lot of research anyway. In this case, we knew that the videos of the appearances in galveston in the courtroom which were extraordinary this case that everybody assumed was going to end up in bob durst being locked up for several years, and he was acquitted. We needed to see that material. We had gotten the transcripts. That was hard enough, just finding these ancient transcripts. They came in a big box that had a bunch of other junk. Later, we went to the judge and said, is there any video . She said, some people shot video, but i never let people have audio in the courtroom, because i didnt want to make it salacious. We thought, this is lost. We got the video, and then we went back to the old boxes, and we went into the bottom of the box and found these 50 audiotapes, oldfashioned cassette tapes, and we realized we had the only copy made by the court reporter, who felt like, this is a big case, i dont want to get it wrong, so he put his cassette player next to him and recorded it. We were able to for the first time, like we were doing some archaeological dig, youre able to take this audio and visually match it. We saw a moment where bob put down a glass. Or is bob this many years later saying for the first time, i did not kill my best friend, but i did dismember him. That is something that would have been lost. That little moment, which is one of the strangest moments, and that was something for us the audience had to see. We cant explain that to the audience. Part of his defense in galveston was that he was going to take responsibility for having just remembered dismembered this corpse but not for murdering him. He makes no argument for that, and the argument is successful. That he dismembered him but not murdered him . Who is morris black . He is sort of a drifter. He was in the marines. He certainly was a content chris, difficult person. He was notorious around galveston for being that way. He was also a guy who would go to the homeless shelter and buy reading glasses over the internet and give them away to homeless people. When he died, they found over 100,000 in his bank account even though he was living in a 300 month house. He is a mystery. People dont really understand him. There are very few pictures of him. How would you describe the dursts motivation . What drives him . One of the big motivations in his life goes back to the family and his position in the family. He was passed over. He was the eldest son. He was passed over to run the family after kathy disappeared. Would he have gotten it if kathy didnt disappear . His younger brother might be more fit for the job, and he admits that, but it sort of formed the way he views himself. A kind of anger . A combination of anger and selfhatred, i would say, this discussed with himself, which i think you see in the interviews as it goes on. You see this guy who is multilayered, suffering with a lot of emotions. Back to the friedmans. Did what happened there in any way inform how you wanted to do this film . We always have the same combination of the drive to get to the bottom of something and the fear of not getting it right. Those two things, i think, are sort of natural bedfellows. We knew in the friedman case that we had gotten a certain amount of information and that we knew enough to say that there were huge problems with the prosecution of jesse friedman. We didnt know enough at the time to say, by the way, the people accusing them are all wrong, and that didnt come until later. With this film, we got a similar second bite at the apple. The police have to run in there and do something quickly. The filmmakers get a second shot. We get to pull the camera back in this case over the course of 10 years, and say, weve got the distance from the crimes. Weve got dozens of people who are willing to talk to us. We can do the digging to get the original testimony or original materials. We came at them similarly, but in this case, i think we had perhaps even more time to take a deeper dive. Congratulations. Great to see you. The film is available on hbo when . February 8, and then it is every sunday. Thank you for joining us. See you next time