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I am about to several islands h.m.s. Ocean will also be sent to the region Labor am paid rendition says he welcomes the nice things that his agent should have been made much sooner we brought. Statement by the minister and now the actions they have taken but when the French government and the French people had the despondent previously and we have feeling that they have a plate and slow in responding to such a disaster and I say in days at least 10 people have died was sent Martin particularly badly hit the queen and Prince Philip say they are shown town saddened by the devastation Britain risks not having the military capability to protect against potential threats according to one of the Army's my senior officers who retired last year it's always a report in The Times newspaper which suggests to save money a range of me is being considered General Sir Richard barons was until last year commanded Joint Forces Command the world that we now live in and are going to live in is much more perilous than the world of the immediate post cold war period whether that's a difficult relationship with Russia the drama that's unfolding with North Korea the perils in the Gulf the drama in Africa genuinely there are risks to our national security in terms of the capability the others now have the mit says it's looking at how best spends a rising defense budgets he supports on national security detectives have been given more time to question 4 men arrested on she's day on suspicion of terrorism offenses the Army's confirmed serving soldiers are being held for allegedly being members of a banned far right group they are being held by West Midlands Police the government's plan for leaving the e.u. Is being tested in the Commons for the 1st time since the general election the so-called repeal bill would transfer thousands of European laws into British legislation Tory backbenches are being asked to back it but Labor says its M.P.'s will vote against it the House of Lords constitution committee has put out a paper expressing its concerns its chairwoman is Lady Tayla parliament has a constitutional June. To scrutinize his legislation Kathleen to hold the Government to account and the way the bill is written is very difficult for everyone it makes scrutiny more difficult not less difficult and it gives the government an enormous amount of potential power the Syrian army says it's ready Will planes have attacked military positions near a town in the northwest of the country 2 soldiers were killed Israeli media reports suggest the target was a chemical plant and the Cambridge says Prince George's 1st day out gold went well for Williams to a 4 year old to close on his eye and this morning as Tate was suffering from severe pregnancy sickness Kensington Palace and mounts Kate's pregnancy earlier this week . British News spoke to entertain for the whole season so this is b.s. . That Singing dancing. Was. Me. Try. To. Treat. Me. Loveless. A bit of. A weekend as we prefer to call it Weekend karaoke Neil Diamond Forever in blue jeans it's b s b s rodeo to gold so this day back in history 7th of September at a 940 the German air force a wave of heavy bombing writes on London killing hundreds of civilians and injuring many more London is pledged by German bombers to stay 940 and spin for 38 years to 1900 then u.k. Prime minister Jim Callaghan announcing he will not call an election this autumn prompting criticism from the then Opposition this day 1978 writes Whitney and it's no rights but it's Ok. 'd Yes. Tell. Us. Thanks. To a. Few hours . The forces world is. I'm making plans now for the weekend if you can spare a few minutes of what I appreciate very precious time if you can check out the bay f.b.s. It's online at b f b s dot com slash nice and easy to get a chance to get to your views tell us what you think about the services they you have access to but also you give yourself a chance of winning and I see some sun Galaxy Tab if you're a member of the military entitled civilian day civil servant or dependent would love you to be on board on this whatever your role is within the military community be f.b.s. Dot com slash server. Need you to be you please consider aviation . Come to. See most of the military jets story the. Same time the legendary red. Kings on the wings and in school for you. In the technique and see the stars with. Much more fuel to get someone is. Under 60. Seconds and might have missed icing on the 2 forces t.v. The most important weapon in a rule is intelligence. Andy McNab uncool is the real story behind British and American soldiers fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan. This is my tour. To g.t. From u.k. Time on forces t.v. 16526 bridging $2.00 to $7.00 and you'll be a set top box and online it forces. Us. a. Lie that. I have your b.s. Right here to gold. In the. Big part of the show. The climax. Of the action. 5 Live Sports. Issues being scrutinized debated in depth with. A. Done. More sips for the Royal Navy more cuts for the moon Navy here we go again you've seen the Queen Elizabeth arrive in Portsmouth this week will be naming the 2nd carrier Prince of Wales with building a new submarines offshore patrol vessels this year 2017 this clearly not enough money for the armed forces to do the things that they need to do to be ready. The defense secretary said Michael Fallon has unveiled a new ship building strategy Britain is to buy at least 5 new frigates with construction shared between shipyards across the u.k. The 1st batch will be in service by 2023 his son Michael talking to Forces news reporter Simon Elliot's will include growing the Royal Navy and you've seen the Queen Elizabeth arrive in Portsmouth this week will be naming the 2nd carrier Prince of Wales with building a new submarines offshore patrol vessels back in July I cut steel on the 1st of the heavy duty free gets the empty submarine frigates up on the Clyde and today another great day for the room I'm announcing Oh we're going to build the 5 liter frigates that will be added to the fleet so we have a growing Royal Navy. Taking on boats to jump on his recommendations for the national ship building strategy is an acknowledgement of focusing so much on the 2 new carriers was the wrong way to go No what he's picked up on as the previous ship procurement the way we've ordered warships in this country we've ended up with ships that have been too expensive that have been. Over there been late and that has caused us problems we're sitting out today an entirely new approach with putting an upper limit on the cost per ship and challenging the shipyards of Britain as to whether or not they can meet it so this is a new approach which we hope will give us warships to budget and on time your former colleague Mark Francois this week highlighted recruitment levels across all forces with the Royal Navy 10 percent down on your recruitment target is why are you confident you'll have enough Silas to crew these vessels when they come in over the next 10 to 15 years where the wrong Navy is 96 percent recruited and the other 2 services at the same they've got they they have a few a few gaps but over 95 percent recruited we're spending a lot of money $200000000.00 a year on recruitment but the armed forces are competing in a growing economy with very low unemployment the lowest for 40 years the own forces are competing with everybody else for a people of the right skills but overall we're going to grow the size of the Navy we're adding 400 posts to the Navy that was agreed back in 2015 review so we're going to go on recruiting. Do you think spending on ships in the modern world given the nature of so I was security is the right way to go would be better be better spending big money on other projects but we have to spend money on both what we've learnt over the last few years is that we have to be ready for all kinds of threats increase Russian aggression dash terrorism in the Middle East instability in Asia Pacific so we need to strengthen our forces across the board nuclear conventional on these new areas like cyber But what we've learned above all is you need a presence around the globe and an expanding Royal Navy with new frigates will give us that that was the defense secretary some Michael fire so will this mean a bigger Well Navy plus a boost the economy when the orders come rolling in from the rest of the world or has that ship sailed I'm joined by naval historian Professor Eric Grove and be f.b.s. Defense analyst Christopher Lee and Eric this strategy draws on recommend a sions by Saddam Parker who wrote a review of British ship building published last November is it the answer well I think it's encouraging that we are ordering or ordering the type the attack that he once and I think trying to sort of spread the spread the load among shipbuilders the carrier program actually has been extremely good I mean Liverpool at the moment are just over the mercy is Kemah lads and they will be I think thinking of of tendering for the new frigates that there was a lot of investment there as part of the carrier of the of the carrier program other yards to m.p. On the on the time and so I think fostering this this this capacity in England particularly is the future of Scotland is perhaps less doubtful that it was but you still have to think of the Scottish factor is probably prudent and I think it may well achieve I Well one hopes it does and certainly the government does a cheaper for it in the end cheaper frigates Christopher he did say that he wants a price cap on these type 30 ones and he's quite demanding timescale. Is that realistic Yeah it is it is if you don't think of it as 1st 11 ships a lot of criticism comes from the whole thing concept of the Type 31 is that you expect it to turn up very quickly and that it's got a very basic design and it's not feature darters let's see other vessels might be but we don't want or we're not ordering more Type 40 five's we're not ordering my more type 26 where was ordering workhorses you go back to for example when I think was Vosper Thorneycroft built type 21 Well that's right yes try to understand we really good the Amazon class which which were really good workaday vessels and did tremendous amount of work that's what you've got to think about in the modern navy You don't just build the best there is this story really starts if you if you think about it in 2010 this whole thing of the s.t.s. Are that if you remember when all the Naval cuts were sort of front loaded you know 2011 went turbulent paid off in 2012 replaced by ambush in other words you pay stuff off so when you see stories about. Helicopters a gang of vessels are going although I don't think we should cut mc m.v.s. Etc You replace them by better vessels there is one question that above all on this which read to starts with that s.t.s. Are in 2010 and it is a continuous story afterwards only 7 years ago. Is that if the wrong Navy were having to take decisions about future naval requirements now with the belt carriers that of like them of course you think they would Eric I think they would have done yes because the carriers are very useful You can't depend you can't depend on the United States anymore if you look at the deployment of American carriers there only to see at the moment and one of them is is a Ronald Reagan in the in in Japanese waters not you know not very far from home that picture that was published recently of Queen Elizabeth side by side with the American carrier that is probably that is probably going to be the you know the shape of things to come even quite positive then Erik about the Royal Navy at the moment pretty much so yes I think I think the Manning problem is serious I've been engaged he didn't seem to think so this offense actually does say that's right well the Navy is trying to make itself more attractive I was involved myself in a study on that among among other 1st year old fellows and in the Navy is trying to do better in return Sion and this kind of thing and making itself more a. More attractive but with this stuff about cutting training and this kind of thing we must be very careful not to have what the Americans call a hollow force it's all very well having ships in service but if the crews aren't trained we're interim big trouble Meanwhile a report in The Times today says the m.-o. O.-t. We making more savings according to the paper a range of moves is being considered including delaying some of the orders for the f. 35 that craft reducing the numbers of troops going for battlefield training in Canada and Kenya as well as with moving mine Hunter vessels from the Royal Navy and Lynx helicopters used by Special Forces I spoke to General Sir Richard Barron Su until last year was commanded Joint Forces Command he's calling for a national debate on the state of the armed forces there are really 2 serious problems that defense is grappling with today and most people in the armed forces are very were very well aware of this the 1st is this year 2017 this clearly not enough money for the armed forces to do the things that they need to do to be ready so they are talking about trimming training and readiness and expenditure on things like infrastructure I. Yes And the 2nd thing that we know to be true is the armed forces are being invited by government to look again at the 10 year program and according to the permit under section of state to remove 20000000000 pounds over the 10 year program that's about 5 and a half percent at today's prices so that means that the fence hasn't got enough money to do the things that we decided upon even in the 2015 defense review so we have both a short term and a long term problem but the key thing is we must look at this in the context of a series of cuts that have occurred frankly since 989 and the end of the Cold War So it's not as if we're looking at these cuts from a particularly good place they are just the latest round in a cycle of trying to get defense to do what they are required to do with less money and the effect on training readiness the the condition of the a state the size of the equipment feet the number of people that can be hired over time means that the armed forces are getting smaller and weaker and really really that wouldn't matter would it if the world was the same as it was in 1900 but everybody who reads the newspapers or looks at television and sees the world as it turning out must be concerned that the world that we now live in and are going to live in is much more perilous than the world of the immediate post cold war period whether that's a difficult relationship with Russia the drama that's unfolding with North Korea the perils in the Gulf the drama in Africa genuinely there are risks to our national security in terms of the capability that others now have had to our interests abroad as part of a globalized world and yet you see the prime minister when she launches the new aircraft is saying that ad craft carrier saying that this is proof that Britain is projecting influence and is investing in defense Well it's a very optimistic message and of course no one would deny this government has decided to increase defense expenditure at about half a percent above inflation every year until 2022 that is a good thing but as today's. Story reveals that's not even holding the line and yes the cleaners with talk areas are very impressive platforms with enormous capability but they're not complete the aircraft enter I for a number of years and when they do they're going to be in very small numbers and many of the things the Royal Navy knows that it needs to deliver a properly powerful carrier group it can't afford so to some degree there's a very positive message but my goodness the some short falls behind the rhetoric I mentioned earlier that you retired last year and this week there has been a report about problems serious problems of accrete went to the armed forces if you were starting out again would you join when you portray the armed forces as you just have of course I join as a vocation I think it's 2nd to none and for a young man or woman who wants to try something different who truly feels they want a role in protecting their country their families and their society what better place is there to be than the armed forces what I would worry about though is committing if you're say 18 or 19 to a full career I would want to know that someone is going to get a grip of the current holographic status of u.k. Difference you call for a serious debate you describe the armed forces a smaller and weaker What do you think needs to happen exactly well I understand how difficult this is for for government for Parliament for ministers for the service chiefs for academia and society generally because as I said nobody feels threatened in 2017 because we've had the luxury of a very comfortable ride since the end of the Cold War But we have to be honest and look at the world as it's turning out look at the state of defense and come to I think set a very clear decisions that what we have now is not enough to protect our interests in in this more difficult world and all I would like to see is a genuinely rich profound considered and durable debate with all of those actors that lays this out and then comes to some I think very difficult and potentially expensive decisions in the world as it is we're going to have to do defense better even though we've got to do things like bricks or. Well that was General said Richard Barron speaking to me earlier Christabel am Professor Grove we're listening to that I'm sure you have a lot to say about that but 1st of all let's hear what the m a d has said in the statement they say in the face of intensifying threats we're looking at how we best spend a rising defense budget to support our national security Chris over to you 1st I couldn't have written better I'm a. Movie the response you think they'd be better at it by now would you. If you go back you know saying you go back to 201022 when it was this whole thing began it was about the same time that the Americans started talking to their closest allies 1st to the British about something called Air sea battle systems and it was the philosophy of what you do in the future because between 1990 let's say that's when Coleman isn't finished around about the beginning of this century the Americans and the British to some extent could go wherever they liked they could morning troops wherever they like they could book the ship deployments etc and then in this century that started to change and so the thinking started to change what you could do with what you got there it was saying earlier that the Americans with some like 13 carriers have only got to running and say they came up this concept of cross to me and synergy in other words you do everybody does things together we're not seeing as the general seems to think we're not seeing a carrier battle group going off to protect British interests the carrier battle group will be part of something which is trying to maintain the idea of world government a balance of whatever Eric Grove there are 2 kinds of rhetoric sent teams seem to get when you hear about how well defense is doing and investments and cuts except where you have the rising defense budget you have the m. a Day and then you have people like General Bonds talking about having to do what's required with less money what is the truth well they have the budget is right. But it's not enough and if serious cuts are going to be made and I was very worried about delays in the f. 35 program I mean in the short term our carrier is going to be carrying large point is they will still get those f. $35.00 Eventually yes but but it will mean perhaps that the that the carrier will continue to have a combined our group well into the 2020 is a combined British an American one also mine countermeasures with Russia on the March perhaps and Baltic operations becoming increasingly likely to do away with one time c.m. Capability it does not seem wise at all there is there are 2 there are. Their lives anyway the mine hunters so that I might hunters tend to have quite a long life and there was talk of reengineering them in fact I remember when there was you know when there was the debate about what was happening to Portsmouth I was assured there was quite a large programme of reentering the mine hunters perhaps they will be reengineered you keep you keep as many m c V's as you can I've driven one that was 35 years old they're around in the Gulf at the moment hope are helping to make sure that you clear the 2 clear was just one thing in perspective you want to ship you said you say that's the sort of ship you want you get it 15 years later or whatever it's going to be the most important thing to remember this is that it takes a long time to build your forces in the style that you want them in the types you want them now the important bit is things happen in along the way which means you change defense spending so when you get a big screamers over there are not enough 6 inch guns left in the Navy is all part of a process which you have in a period of 20 years that's all we are seeing at the moment gentlemen will be returning to this subject I'm sure in the future thank you very much Professor Eric Drache thanks for your time today. Still to come g c h Q celebrates the life of a dentist and the man who made it all happen. North Korea has tested another nuclear weapon underground they've announced improvements in their. The longest range missile the Americans have told the Japanese and the South Koreans they can buy advanced u.s. Weapons systems but what of the Chinese saying Professor Hazel Smith is from the Center for Korean Studies at the University of London good to speak she's day Professor what could China do that would stop North Korea doing what they're doing . Well I think there's a lot of myth ology about what China kind of got this is a very good question 1st politically they have next to no influence over the regime inside North Korea North Korea's subtle state and it's not just the fact that it's an actual sovereign state China has not been able to persuade North Korean governments even since they fought with the North Koreans in the Korean War last best estimates are up to a 1000000 Chinese even since the war ended in 1953 they've never been able to have any imprudence over the government often to their extreme pressed ration one of the things that happens of course is that people nowadays talk about the fact that China must have economic influence because 90 percent of North Korea's trade imports and exports goes through China but we have to remember that the level of trade is extremely low North Korea is one of the poorest countries in the world even though it's got as we can see from the missile and nuclear development advanced scientific and technological skills so all of course countries in the world its exports and imports are very low compared to most countries which means that a lot of those imports and exports go to for survivability for the population so what China has done so far is it's gone along with sanctions as has Russia and the United States and France and the u.k. The important permanent members of the United Nations Security Council all of which have the veto China's going along with sanctions which directly such a North Korean government exports like mineral exports which are directly controlled by the government but all the sanctions legislation has had to exempt from it is written into the legislation anything to do with livelihood and humanitarian issues and what China is arguing and I think that there's quite a lot of. Rationality in this is that much more of a very look much much more restriction of trade. It would effectively mean the end of all trade because there isn't much to start with and now we're talking about food we're talking about basic fuel supplies the population in the 1990 s. We had a famine because a lot of it was because of lots of different reasons but because the government no longer imported oil didn't get the support of all that means agriculture suffers and we had a WW people died so so I think that there are all real issues there yeah and the effects of sanctions presumably in the eyes of the Americans and the United Nations they're suggesting that actually the North Korean leader Kim Jong un by the idea of war that he wants a war do you buy that. I think that's just a little bit silly and it's a sound bite for the for the media what we see in strategically that the North Koreans priority is never a clear about their strategic currencies we don't have to read the tea leaves to find them regime survival and what they consider is territorial defense and they're you know is that the development of nuclear weapons and the development of missile capability prevents whether whether we think it's right or not their view is that it prevents any form of military intervention. When we talk about this before Hazel You talked about the internal struggles within North Korea when you talk about regime survival the various different families that are vying What's the state of play now and how have these tests made any difference to that well the overall state of play you're right that there is there are major cleavage just between important countries in the regime but overall I have in common is that they don't want to end up in the International Court of Justice and therefore they're all have in common that they want to have regime survival and they all have in common at least as far as we can see that at the moment that their nuclear program protects them so they're all in favor of the nuclear program well we have seen is storage clear I mean I I don't talk to them directly and. We have seen historically what I do know is that within the elite there has been discussion about whether a diplomatic way forward. Would would would would solve this is the one hazel. Well there might be if there was a big security deal on the table in the same way that Britain did a big security deal with in Island all that Colombia has done with the far end to end the war but it doesn't that would mean negotiating with North Korea as it is rather than many outside would like it to be that would mean accepting the current North Korean regime stays in place and finding a deal with them if that acceptance is that would very difficult going to security deal you could have security guarantors from China Russia and the United States if there was a deal negotiated but 2 things one is domestically will the United States entirely be able to just to do that many and Donald Trump has said he sees the peace and on the other can come back to what we talked about before is it isn't by no means clear these days that there is a there is anybody within the group that is prepared to change direction within North Korea to look at Tivoli for some form of diplomatic solution All right I'm not says a not very optimistic Professor Hazel Smith fascinating as I've talked to thank 3 times a day. Now have you ever heard of Alice a dentist and probably not but his story is crucial to the founding of the Government Communications Headquarters known as. Denison it was the intelligence organizations fast leader but was largely forgotten in the history books until now that is Dr Jill Greenberg is the author of a new book about him and he joins me today from good to speak to you today and so there was Alice a dentist and what was so special about him for all to understand we're very proud of what occurred Bricker going to be unified on how this sort of very floor was created in 1903 and he was appointed as an operational director and that organization eventually led through modern day Spirit or he's been described as a forgotten. But you're putting that to be behind everybody because the should be so should he what do you think of Fear not I mean he was obviously a pioneer in the field of signal intelligence he played a key role in creating a special relationship between the United States and Britain in the sharing of intelligence and he in effect created what is now Britain's modern intelligence organization you've researched these kind of and is a lot of your writing what fascinates you about him. Well it was the fact that he had such a long career 30 years a career which just and it suddenly he walked away and pretty much was never heard of again other than by you know if they would be references to them in books etc But you know he is actually no different than many of the people who played here Olson in this failed most people don't know about them but given his crucial importance it it's not help you know that that needed to be addressed He's been described as an innovator while his I didn't. He really select wanted people with a wide range of skills so he had no preconception of who would be good at this sort of work he was very much into diversity when he had a lot to park there was a huge number of women working there he didn't care what backgrounds they had as long as they had the right skills to do this work and he in the early days a lot of them to innovate he didn't impose rules on them he allowed them to solve any problems that they were facing without too much heavy burden of administration on top of them yes and he identified the talents and people he was known for that was and see what kind of people did he take and other people with knowledge Well he initially became aware that Polish codebreakers had had success in using mathematicians so clearly he recognized that mathematicians were very good of this work but equally bankers were very very good protect. And some of the kids ministration roles and they came in obviously linguists as well anybody that had a sort of German particular Italian language skills were useful so he brought people from this wide range of professions help to knit them all together and to create this unified single intelligence organization is being reported a Nowadays this kind of new ways that d.c. H.q. Has tried to attract you Tom And what do you think they can learn from him Well I think they have learnt the lesson and I do them and it's a very diverse organization to walking around the organization today 20 books etc It's a complete diverse cross-section of soon to be as many women as men walking around on a gender point of view it's looks to be a completely organization so I think the lessons of already been learned and what do you think the legacy of all this is done is to be almost certainly the organization. Which was born out of his parenting work than the 199-1920 s. Well joining us today is his granddaughter candy Connelly who we can talk to now Candy what would a grandfather like. Unfortunately I never met my grandfather but to my father he said he was the most secretive person and he hardly knew him himself so he was very very discreet but very loving as well when you presume you've read this new book What do you think of it I think it's amazing but because it gives clarity to a very complex situation that he was dealing with and when you try and read about it there is many many angles to understand how they fit together so the book is very clear and it shows his way through at the SETI years. And that you know what he did Candy Crowley thank you and Dr Jill green bugs book Alice to dentist and code breaking from Room 40 to bulky street on the birth of g.c. . Q. Is out now let's talk about Prince of Wales officially named tomorrow Christopher Well you'd be a bit more excited so I tell you what with all this stuff about gloomy stuff about cuts and things we can you imagine the Commodore just be about 10 minutes to go before the naming and he said we have got the champagne ready halfway and it's a silence in the water room and they have a whip round to send send a junior acting probationary sub left on a round to oldies to get the cheapest but finest they can get shake it up and running into dramatics create creative territory here oh yes like saying you know I think coming on. The launching. Remind it reminds of when the sister ship takes us Queen Elizabeth will be a price not until the twenty's I mean it's good to be sort of 2 years after the Elizabeth but when operate together you can't do that with 2 big ships like that just imagine we really get only the manpower where you get all the ships come for 2 lots where we get the destroyer escorts the frigate escorts the submarine escort you need not meant to do that so when when this one comes on stream if you like what will happen the Elizabeth will go in for about 2 years at very least 3 years for a complete refit But I tell you one thing I do like the idea of the Prince of Wales putting to see eventually and being commissioned when a ship or navy is recommissioned it's quite often has an old name the name we've had before that. Croyle they then go along to the silver in the defense ministry the old happen to civil votes and they get all the silver from the last ship and they bring it out they put it on the table and that's ours we've reclaimed the so over from our last and most important thing we knew a book probably it was the most important thing that I tell you one thing of course the Prince of Wales she was really smashed up by the Japanese in World War 2 So that's not such a good let's leave it there for us leave it on the cheap counter for. Does what you think you can. Never miss an episode you can subscribe to show as a podcast just such online. We're back same time next week thanks for listening to me but I. Did British speak to an entertainer for the British forces overseas this is b.s. Lives. Hundreds of you Patriots are being sent to the Caribbean to help with the aftermath of hurricane but there is. A real danger.

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