Transcripts For BBCNEWS The State Of Sport 20170324

Trafford, home of lancashire wicket club. You can just trafford, home of lancashire wicket club. You canjust about trafford, home of lancashire wicket club. You can just about reached the other old trafford with a good throw from the boundary. We are in the sporting fop hub of a major sports city. This is the bbcs state of sport debate. We are tackling the main issues affecting sport today. And we have brought together a prominent panel of leaders and achievers in sport. Also, jessica is with our studio audience. Achievers in sport. Also, jessica is with our studio audiencelj achievers in sport. Also, jessica is with our studio audience. I will be with our studio audience. I will be with a select group of stakeholders and experts for some of their questions about the issues concerning them. This is the culmination of a special week of programmes and reports across the bbc about the state of sport. Heres a reminder of what we have covered so a reminder of what we have covered so far. Certainly the figures as regards the prevalence of performance enhancing su bsta nces prevalence of performance enhancing substances as an amateur level are incredibly alarming. This is the dark side. It isa dark side. It is a hard situation. Everybody wa nts to it is a hard situation. Everybody wants to make something for syria. It can go as big grow as big as football. The young generations are into digital news and everything, so there is no doubt. Translation it gave me a new start, new friends, and helped me in that way. I had to control my anger, had to just stay calm inside and outside the ring. I chose a sport, actively, asa the ring. I chose a sport, actively, as a way of living. You talk about painkilling injections, painkilling drugs, anti inflammatories. It is widespread in football. If you rock the boat, you were out. Rocked. If you rock the boat, you were out. Rocked. A flavour there of some of the areas weve been covering in the course of the week. I should say also on twitter, the hashtag is running, you can join also on twitter, the hashtag is running, you canjoin in this debate. But let us introduce our panel. Liz nicholl is the Chief Executive of uk sport, a former Welsh International netball player. It is Welsh International netball player. It is her organisation which decides which sports get how much money in their bid for olympic glory. So crowd really is the president of the world anti doping agency, former Vice President of the International Olympic committee and former chairman of the british olympic association. He also played a key role as president of the International Badminton federation, in getting badminton into the olympic games. Helen Richardson Walsh is a gold medallist, a member of the triumphant Gb Hockey Team in rio, and a veteran of 291 International Appearances for england and gb. Now playing in the netherlands. Baroness Tanni Grey Thomson is simply one of the greatest british pa ralympics. Thomson is simply one of the greatest british paralympics. 11 gold medals to her name, not to mention four silvers and a bronze, and currently chairing the duty of ca re review and currently chairing the Duty Of Care Review for the government in helping elite and grass roots athletes engaging in sport. Benny mccarthy is the leading goal scorer for south africas National Football team. 32 goals in 80 appearances in a career which has taken him from top a career which has taken him from to p clu bs a career which has taken him from top clubs in south africa to europe and the us, and he is currently taking his coaching badges, and is a regular commentator on football across the continents. Catherine murray is a two time olympian and Bronze Medal Winner in sydney. Her career was ended by recurring injuries. Shes become a commentator since then on the paralympic and olympic games, and at Major International athletics events. Baroness thompson, youve spent a year now looking into the duty of ca re review year now looking into the Duty Of Care Review as its called, and really touching on probably all the keyissues really touching on probably all the key issues we would like to be looking at in our debate. And given what weve heard from the allegations within British Cycling, bullying, and further allegations of bullying, and further allegations of bullying coming to british swimming from paralympic swimmers, not to mention the sexual abuse scandal, the revelations within football, it is difficult to see how you come up with anything other than a rather disturbing report. The Sports Minister asked me to look a duty of care, and it is probably not surprising that the athletes Transition Peace has come under so much interest because of the amount of coverage here. The report i was asked to do is very forward it was about how we support people if as they go through the system. It is not just athletes, buts they go through the system. It is notjust athletes, buts coaches and performance directors. We have proved we can win medals, my personal view is we need to prove that we can win medals with a duty of care. I dont think it diminishes oui of care. I dont think it diminishes our chances of winning, we invest a huge amount in sport and it is amazing to see the medal performances, but what we need to do is make sure that as athletes go through, they have a really clear idea of their roles and responsibilities and how they transition out. Your career in sports millie short, athletes did Something Else to go on to. Really short. Are you saying the balance of funding for care in sport is run . You a the balance of funding for care in sport is it is nots has not been such a intrinsic part of the system. Winning medals was what all the athletes were asked to do, and that is what they have done. But as athletes go through the programme, it is just as athletes go through the programme, it isjust important as athletes go through the programme, it is just important that they understand, and take personal responsibility for it themselves, but they have a life beyond sport, and were able to maximise the investment. We are able to. It is about not leaving athletes broken at the end of it. It is a really tough, pressurised environment, we cant make it all warm and cuddly because thatis make it all warm and cuddly because that is not what sport is. But the message you are giving is that must be more effort to look after athletes. The sports have to ta ke after athletes. The sports have to take far more responsibility than they are doing at the moment. Take far more responsibility than they are doing at the momentm take far more responsibility than they are doing at the moment. It is not thejob of they are doing at the moment. It is not the job of a performance Directors Think about what an athlete does once they are retired. Theirjob is to deliver medals. It is the way they do that but i think we have to be more mindful of. I was not asked to look at every sport, my report is ready forward looking, it doesnt mention a person or a sport in it, it is the principles of how sport, myself and the panel believe, should be as we go forward. When is that going to come it is imminent. That could mean quite a while. Thank you very much. Liz, you have £345 million overfour years you very much. Liz, you have £345 million over four years to spend, i have to focus on what has happened in British Cycling in terms of the allegations, not just of in British Cycling in terms of the allegations, notjust of bullying but issues about medication, certain question marks about governance. We have now had these allegations just this week, a bbc exclusive report on british swimming, and more cases of allegations of bullying. It is difficult not to draw a link between the pressure that is put on sports to get results. That is your message, isnt it . You want money from us, you go and deliver results. And that is putting too much pressure on these sports . First of all i think we should applaud the courage of any athlete that has spoken out and express concerns about the experience they have had in world class programmes in their sport, and actually in any other aspect of life. It takes courage, and the most important thing is what happens then when that courage is comes to the forefront and that information about not Good Practice at all actually is clearly evidenced. But are you surprised that these things are coming out . Uk sport is one of the bodies that drives this message of Good Governance, and demands Good Governance, and demands Good Governance of Governing Bodies in sport, and yet this is happening on your watch effectively. We want to see the highest standards of professional conduct and integrity operated within sport generally, and especially in sport where they are benefiting from Public Funding. It is clear that the system is not as good as it can be. And i think this isa wake good as it can be. And i think this is a wake up call for sport to be much more aware of the responsibilities, beyond the responsibility to help athletes achieve what they aspire to achieve. If they enter into the world class programme, they want to be medallists, nobodys pushing them more than they will want to push themselves in terms of their aspirations to succeed. But it is a wake up call for the sport and the system, it is clear it can be better, and it will be. And i think this is the big step up for the tokyo cycle. But you know there is a little bit of a push back about the medals at all costs, as some of the cyclists has said, has been the Culture Developing in British Cycling. Are you ready to revisit the way in which uk sport considers the way in which uk sport considers the importance of funding . Who gets what . We dont reward success, we invest in potential. So the results. You punish lack of success. No, we dont, we enquire as to whether wire that success has not been achieved, and we invest in future potential. So the real results, we make the Investment Decisions after london. Wed already invested in real, and you can see is the example with badminton, who achieved Medal Success in rio, we are investing in the official potential. Are investing in the official potential. Future potential. So this is about how the investment and the relationship is being interpreted, and clearly its not been interrupted by everybody in the right way. So weve got to communicate better, the sports have got absolutely communicate better with the athletes and support their athletes in a more rounded sense, but i do see this as, yes, its uncomfortable, but its right that athletes are speaking out, and it is right but we all acknowledge that somethings going to change, and it will do over this next cycle. You we re will do over this next cycle. You were reported last week as saying two other Governing Bodies that what is happening in place cycling was a minor tremor. Would you stand by that . You have to understand the context. So we had 300 representatives across the sport, and as tanni said, we had issues arising in some sports and not every sport is at fault here. A lot of people are wondering, are all being blamed for something . What i was saying is, this is something that is happening here, you cannot ignore, you cannot ignore, but it is not a major earthquake that is going to set us of course. If we had a and earthquake tremor here, we would notice it, we would be worried about it. We would change something as a result of realising we are in a zone which needs to be adjusted. So what lam which needs to be adjusted. So what i am saying is this is something thatis i am saying is this is something that is so significant, and every sport can learn from it, and the cycling action plan, which is a 39 point action plan, every sport should be looking at that and checking to see if they are doing things properly. British cycling have also acknowledged some of the problems they are having. Jessica. Question from chloe, a ph. D. Student at manchester metropolitan university, researching sports engineering. With recent concerns over injuries in sports such as concussion in rugby, how important do you think Player Welfare, Injury Prevention and recovery is . Thank you much. Helen Richardson Walsh, perhaps we could start with you. |j perhaps we could start with you. mean, ithink perhaps we could start with you. mean, i think Player Welfare is massively important. Having been involved in hockey for nearly two decades, i have seen a big change in how welfare of athletes is managed. Society is changing, and you can start to see that shift in sport as well. Gone are the days where you get well, in hockey, the days where you get shouted at on the sideline. At the international level, because i dont think that is a cce pta ble level, because i dont think that is acceptable in society any more, and it is kind of being phased out in sport. And i dont think it is an issue of welfare or medals. You dont need to go down that route to win medals, ive seen the other side, where hockey is now at the moment, and what we developed as a tea m moment, and what we developed as a team the last two olympic cycles, it was so far removed from that Old Fashioned in kind of coaching, and we were more successful. I dont think it is necessary, and actually, if you look after your players and your athletes, they will then want to give back to the sport. You know, we go on about female coaching and not having any female coaches, but i know so many hockey players that have walked away from hockey not wanting to even talk to every anybody from the game, let alone pick upa anybody from the game, let alone pick up a stick or a coach the next generation. If we look at the athletes, they might want to come back coach and come back into the sport and give back all that knowledge they have learned over such a long time. That is a similar Theme Running through football and footballers, the readiness to stay with the sport and feedback because of the way they have perhaps been treated . Was definitely, we are all human beings irrespective of where you come from, but you want to be treated with respect as well. In my day, i used to see managers shout at me like crazy, and sometimes if i was not strong enough, i would have walked off the pitch because it was really so bad. Because for the managers, he is Saving Hisjob and he doesnt care what he does what he says as long as the team wins, he is happy. And because obviously they say you are getting paid to do your job, you have to go out and do your job. So when you get abused, it doesnt matter. And on issues like injuries, were you ever encouraged to ta ke injuries, were you ever encouraged to take painkillers when perhaps there would have been a better way to look after you but it would get you through the game . Of course, i think it is such a High Pressured sport now, and the money that is getting pumped in and the expectations. And did you mind them . No, i didnt, because it is my well being, them . No, i didnt, because it is my well being, and them . No, i didnt, because it is my well being, and if i gave up tomorrow, it is one gone and another one in. So as long as you can help them achieve their goals in that period while you are there, that is how they used to abuse. But yes, i did suffer cases where i was told, ifi did suffer cases where i was told, if i dont take an injection or if i dont do a certain drug to help me get back so i am fit for the game, i am never going to play in the steam again andl am never going to play in the steam again and i will end up going back to africa where i am from. So yes, the pressure was really on, and when you are a foreigner, it is worse. So for me it was like 0k, well, if thatis for me it was like 0k, well, if that is the case, its not going to hurt me or do damage in the long run. You would take that risk. Yes, because i did not want to lose my job in the team. Obviously your main interest is beating the cheats, but there is a Welfare Element in deciding perhaps what drugs are and are not appropriate. Do you put enough time and effort into the medication side of protecting athletes . We do, there is a bunch of highly qualified experts who are on our list committee, and they determine which is prohibited and which is not. And there is a consta nt which is not. And there is a constant debate on whether some should be in and some not. Ithink the question about concussion is highly relevant at the moment. Weve just gone through a Six Nations Rugby campaign. And i see that in future it will be five games in six weeks as opposed to five games in seven weeks. I am not a rugby coach but i suspect you are going to lead a squad of at least 45 players, three teams of 15, because the size of the game and the size of the athletes is getting bigger and bigger, and there is clearly a problem, which has to be dealt with. I think the administrators have to look at this, not only in terms of the rules of the game, but they also have to look at the time of the amount of money that is paid to athletes, and the amount of matches that they have to play. So if you are a sponsor and the runner of a clu b are a sponsor and the runner of a club and you are paying your players for public thousand pounds per year to play, you want them to play, and that pressure sometimes i think overcomes other problems which many many of which we are talking about. Have begun to talk about. As you said it, retired as i fell apart, you have begun to talk about. As you said it, retired as i felljust quit one day, too much pressure on you, to battle through ailments, illnesses . I literally fell apart, it wasnt a decision from a mental point of view, purely physical, i have so many injuries that one day i thought, no eye, no, i cannot ta ke thought, no eye, no, i cannot take this any more. Going back to welfare, this is a collective responsibility, by numerous groups of people, when there is massive amounts of money involved in anything, that comes with responsibility. National Governing Bodies receiving millions of pounds, under pressure to deliver performances and medals, that filters down to the people that the National Governing bodies imply, they need to get the medals and get they need to get the medals and get thejob done. That they need to get the medals and get the job done. That filters down to the job done. That filters down to the medics, videos, doctors, their responsibility to get the stars on the pitch, on the track, they may therefore make decisions that they may not make on a normal basis but it is theirjob to make sure that the bigwig in the team is ready and fit, that filters down to the athletes, one opportunity in their life to get this done. I make decisions in my life, i was popping 1000 mg of other pro finn everyday, for two, three, four days, because i had a race, that was my Opportunity Andi had a race, that was my opportunity and i had to take it, i would make decisions based on what i needed to do there and then, therefore, collectively, lots of different people who need to do theirjobs to the best level they can. As you said, didi the best level they can. As you said, did i think about the process afterwards . Said, did i think about the process afterwards . No, becausei said, did i think about the process afterwards . No, because i would go toa afterwards . No, because i would go to a doctor or medic and say, i need to a doctor or medic and say, i need to race, run round the track to earn money, is this band . It is not, will idie money, is this band . It is not, will i die from it, probably not. Lets get going athletes do that day in and day out, notjust an abuse in football, you are talking about collectively around numerous sports because that is what sports people do at this moment in time, what needs to be put in place is structured or personnel to keep an eye on the athletes, to ask the questions, make sure they are in the right frame of mind, that they know what they are doing, and the pros and cons. The question mentioned Injury Prevention, that is a massive thing for Young Athletes coming into sport. We grow up, we play sport for fun, having fun, then suddenly, you are thrust into an environment where the demands on your body are so huge, you are not ready for it physically, and if sports have a system in place where they are able to put in Injury Prevention programmes, right from day 1, where you build up athletes strength, from the core and everything, fundamental strength, that can cope with the physical demands, hopefully, you will then sees less injuries, as the athlete goes on in their career. Have to move on to another area. wanted to say, doping is probably a big issue in any sport but also in amateur sport, a bbc poll this week found more than one third of Amateur Sports People know someone personally who was doped, a huge issue, that brings us to the next question, from a doctor, a Senior Lecturer in Social Psychology at sheffield hallam. Should antidoping education be in the School Curriculum early on, maybe in Health Promotion of physical education, so that young people are better equipped with knowledge and skills to avoid doping in later life . Thank you. The education role, lets be honest, in terms of dealing with anti doping, it is as prevalent as ever as an issue, 70 plus cases from london 2012, that we know of now, how do you resolve it . The simple a nswer how do you resolve it . The simple answer is, yes. Yes, i have looked at the figures that came out from the bbc survey, i thought that they produced a number of different a nswer to produced a number of different answer to the same question. And i would hope that if people have friends or know someone who knows somebody who dopes, that they might actually picked up the phone and speak to actually picked up the phone and speakto uk actually picked up the phone and speak to Uk Anti Doping, the whistle blowing line, and passed the information on, because we need this sta nce information on, because we need this stance before we do anything. The only way that this will be solved is through education, and if you say to sport, you do it, sport can do some, certainly, the people in this country have a badge of respectability for university sport, the recent announcement from bath university, clean sport at the university, clean sport at the university, that would help sport itself can help, uk athletics can help, but at the end of the day, ultimately, the only way to do this is through the physical education people, the curriculum, in schools, telling people, getting them to believe a, it is not a smart thing to do, and, at the end of the day, if you do it, you are cheating. That is as early and age as possible. There is a system in the uk, 100 , looking after your own cleanliness as an athlete. Did you think that you were well educated . Yes, because i was resourceful enough to look for what i needed, i was responsible, in terms of amateur sport, this is no surprise, 49 of peds are easily available. Performance enhancing drugs. Yes, easily available for the amateur athlete who potentially has nothing to lose, they have a reputation in terms of the sport, to lose, and so it is no surprise, it isa lose, and so it is no surprise, it is a sad fact that people will go down the line of increasing and improving their performance in terms of being easily available, and not really caring, being naive, perhaps an educated. Starting at a young age isa an educated. Starting at a young age is a fantastic idea, getting it into the system, into the heads of young people that this is not a good idea, it is cheating, i agree, but i dont think that is The Main Ingredient you need, The Main Ingredient is the shock tactic in terms of, this is bad for your health, these are the side effects. Telling job logs on the street, do you know that this could do a comedy, sea and deep. Telling joe bloggs on the street. Shock people, let them know that this could really happen to them. It is education, and how that education comes across, it has to be done at the basic understanding for people to get their head around the fact. They know that it is cheating, if you smoke a packet of cigarettes, you smoke a packet of cigarettes, you know it is not good for you but people will still do it, you have two shock people into saying, i did not realise that would happen. You deal with elite sport, by and large. Is there a distinction to be made, or should it be the same for everyone . Education education education as early as possible, not only installed but community clubs. Are you alarmed . I was absolutely shocked, i think, i would love to see some of the big sports, with big reach, into local communities, doing something really positive and proactive in terms of the messaging, and resulting that to get across the health risks. Might not be at a competitive level, but actually, it is breaking rules that will be checked, but, a big message about the health risk, it is not worth taking. That could be by sports, Uk Anti Doping has said they need more resources. They cannot do this alone, if you need to educate the nation, the nation will get involved, anybody with significant reach out in communities, anybody with sport, reaching two communities, there should be this message about Athlete Welfare and the welfare of young people. Cases reported of even 11 year olds taking steroids, also, evidence suggesting that up to 44 of youngsters believe that up to 44 of youngsters believe that they are having success because they are taking drugs and steroids, where does that fit in your duty of ca re where does that fit in your Duty Of Care Review . Actually, in terms of doping and anti doping, not a huge response to the work that i did, partly it is about timing, if i had started the work now, it would be different. Im not hugely shocked by the figures, that will to win, people will take risks, it does not matter if it is a low level race or the highest level, there are people who will push the boundaries as much they can, and. The education is absolutely right, it has to be there but it also has to be around things like supplementation and diet, people are looking for an edge. Remember, some of the supplements you take, the advice on the packages, six foot six, training 15 times a week, not an 11 year old i have seen kids walking around. Have a jam sandwich, a ham sandwich, and thing that tastes nice. Part of it comes back, this desire to win. Making choices at younger and younger ages about this pyramid, and younger ages about this pyramid, and you are seeing younger ages about this pyramid, and you are seeing now, young men, younger ages about this pyramid, and you are seeing now, young men, and increasingly women, in football clu bs, increasingly women, in football clubs, selected, deselected at eight, nine yes all, we make decision at 14 whether somebody is good enough. Selected or deselected at eight or nine years old. That is amateur sport, but also the elite side, prevalent as ever, the elite side, prevalent as ever, the case, the russian case, everyone familiar with, how does that leave you feeling, other than toothless . We try to not be toothless, we try to develop the programmes. We try to put in place a system of compliance, across arid international federations. To make sure that they run the whole anti doping programme properly. And in the main, that is slowly beginning to work. The problem we have at the moment is that. You say it is slowly beginning to work, the evidence would suggest rather differently. A number of countries seen as noncompliant by wilder. The problem is that the Biggest Country in the world has been proved to have broken the rules. Wada. Clearly, over a four year period, from 2011 through 2015, every analysis that is done from previous games, by the international and the committee, it is countries in Eastern Europe and from russia as well, where the offenders have been. Now, making them compliant again is one issue, getting them to remain compliant, and having the rest of the world believe that they are, that is the bigger issue, and that is a specific one, but for the rest of the world, i think they are looking at what happened in russia and they are beginning to think, we had better try not, in any circumstances, to go down the same route. At the moment i think there is only one country that is currently noncompliant, unfortunately, it is brazil, they tripped up after rio. Leave it at that point, craig, thank you very much, Over Tojessica that point, craig, thank you very much, over to jessica once that point, craig, thank you very much, Over Tojessica once again. The next question is from lesnar race, Social Inclusion Coordinator at Greater Manchester sports partnership. From liz norris. The two captains of england, one earns 255 more than the other, sol two captains of england, one earns 255 more than the other, so i would like to ask, what is being done to address the gender gap in sport, in terms of Athlete Value but also Media Coverage in female sport and the lack of females in Leadership Government Positions . The bbc might stand out and say it is doing its bit, helen, let me start with you, there is a gap, you are in a sport where the Media Profile has done a huge amount, do you get a sense there is more equality now within hockey . No. I think there is more equality now within hockey . No. Ithink that there is more equality now within hockey . No. I think that on an international stage, absolutely, the funding that we get from uk sport is shared equally, and it is to do with results as well. On a domestic level, it is not equal at all. My male counterparts will earn loads more money than i do. From their clu bs more money than i do. From their clubs in this country from the opportunities they have in the euro Hockey League, which is a great Hockey League, which is a great Hockey League, which is a great Hockey League but just Hockey League, which is a great Hockey League butjust for Hockey League, which is a great Hockey League but just for men. Hockey league, which is a great Hockey League butjust for men. The female equivalent is pretty pathetic. There is also the introduction of the hockey india league, equivalent to the indian premier league, and again, that is just for men. These things. It does not feel like it is changing. To be honest. In hockey it feels like it is getting further apart. Which, considering the success of the womens team, is really disappointing. Ifeel the womens team, is really disappointing. I feel that Governing Bodies of every sport needs to do more to make sure that there are sports are equal. Being accountable for that and not just looking sports are equal. Being accountable for that and notjust looking to the Funding Bodies or other organisations and saying, it is not us, it is them, Everybody Needs to be accountable and look at themselves and think about how they can makea themselves and think about how they can make a difference. Talking about Governing Bodies, the Football Association has put forward proposals for reform, bringing three women onto the board, a reduced board of ten. They have come in for criticism because no mention of ethnic minorities, for instance, is that the sort of step that you could applaud, because across the piece, representation of women. Whether it is about pay on the field or representation at the ballroom, remains pitiful. This is a really important moment for british sport, because as of the 1st of april, The New Sports Government Code comes into effect, when every Organisation Thatis into effect, when every organisation that is in receipt of Public Funding will be required to have an action plan to comply with the code, this will be transformational, we will look back in a little while and we will see that this has had a massive impact, because there is no money flowing out through the door. Until an action plan is agreed. Within that, requirements to have a diversity action plan, which is published, there is a requirement to increase women on board, from 25 expectation of a cycle to 30 over this cycle, requirements to have government structures, that are balanced in terms of diversity. Open recruitment of individuals, so this will change at the very top of sports, and it will have impact over time, at other levels as well. I think. Helen mention, in terms of the world class system, we are incredibly equitable, the number of athletes we fund, male and female, about the same, medals, male and female, about the same, so we are quite unique in that respect, and we also are seeing. Some gaps in terms of women in High Performance coaching, more women getting onto boards, a better number now, growing number of women ceos of some sports, so number of women ceos of some sports, so it is happening over time, but i think the Sports Governance Code is going to accelerate that more than it ever has. The sanctions are there, the penalties will be imposed. This question was really about men and women, i mention the Football Association, one can talk about ethnic minorities, other minorities, within football, how well or poorly served the field you are . Is there any real incentive to stick in football, to try to move up the ladder . From what you see a bear, there is no incentive, as i was going through my coaching badges, i am a football person, that is all i know. I want to be involved in football in all sorts, but when i look and icy the amount of ethnic minorities that there is, and i look and i see. I wonder what is the point of even doing it, i am not being givena point of even doing it, i am not being given a chance. The positive side, if you educate yourself, if you educate yourself, and make sure you educate yourself, and make sure you do the necessary things, to make sure you are at the level where you are able to be equally as good maybe even better, then opportunities will come. Ijust feel that people say there is not enough black coaches. But, how many of us submit our cvs . Probably, none, because we automatically think they will discard us and not give us opportunities. If we educate ourselves, we can only help change it by getting the proper education and make sure that you do become knowledgeable as the top coaches out there, and when you submit, and if you dont get interviews, then, you know, more questions could be asked about it. I have never submitted myself for anyjob. About it. I have never submitted myself for any job. I about it. I have never submitted myself for anyjob. I am one of those who is expecting that one day i want to become a coach, i want a job in football, but i have never applied for a job, sol job in football, but i have never applied for a job, so i cantjust throw stones when i dont understand. Once we get the proper education, and we put our best foot forward , education, and we put our best foot forward, we will probably be given opportunities. I would love to see notjust opportunities. I would love to see not just blacks but opportunities. I would love to see Notjust Blacks but all different races, in the game, because we are good enough to play the sports as an athlete but when it comes to managing, not good enough then. Thank you very much. We have spoken a lot so far about the elite level but the grassroots affects the general public, the next question comes from mike jennings, communications adviser, English Federation of disability sport. Not everyone is to be a paralympian or elite performer, how can we help to break down the barriers in sport to break down the barriers in sport to support more every day disabled people to take up activity and lead active lives . Migr thompson, the number of disabled people actually active in sport is falling, despite the profile that we get from the Paralympic Games. The profile is amazing but it does not necessarily encourage anybody to go on and be an elite athlete. Tanni grey thompson. Elite athlete. Tanni greythompson. The way to fix it is a number of different things, it is about physical access, transport, being active in schools, access to pe, i still get too many young people who write to me who are told they cannot do it in schools for health and safety reasons. That is probably dropping a little bit but needs to be better. One of the things that came out when Sport England did this campaign, there we re england did this campaign, there were not that many pictures of non elite women doing sport. It is the same, where do you see the imagery of disabled people being physically active, and having fun . And i think that is part of the challenge, i think we have got to get the message out there. It is about Health Benefits as well, if disabled people are more active, and this is true for everyone, they will cost the nhs less money as they get older. We have got to do something, we have got to start making some pretty big interventions to give people the opportunity. Most of what people the opportunity. Most of what people come back to me about his attitude, it is about attitude, trying tojoin a club, i have lost out, people like you are meant to go somewhere else. A lot of disabled people just want to be included, play with their friends, have lots of choice, not just play with their friends, have lots of choice, notjust be directed to maybe a paralympic team. There is probably a question to look at on talent id, and say, if you are not talented, and lets face it, most people are not, what other sport can they try . And where else can they go . In paralympic sport, what seems to happen is if you are not talented, you are not given other opportunities. It is tough. Does it bother you if a recent yougov survey, for example, pointed to the finding around most people that success at the olympics is not a spur to getting involved in participation in sport . We have done other polls that show that activity in the uk increased over the periods of the olympics and paralympics, quite significantly. Significant numberof quite significantly. Significant number of respondents to a survey indicated that they were inspired to participate more and 50 of those said they had participated more. Do they stay . Then there is a drop of, in terms of raising the participation levels, the number of people, sticking with physical activity in sport, the olympics is not the answer. It is not the answer, where we position is, this is an opportunity to inspire the nation to be active, ambitious, healthy, and enjoy sport. So this is just one part of the equation. The athletes that we fund have delivered now, since london, over23,000 in volunteer days, they have gone to their local communities, in clubs and schools, and they have encouraged people to participate. Paralympians, the question was about paralympians, the question was about pa ralympians, athletes with paralympians, the question was about paralympians, athletes with a disability, there is a massive opportunity now for people to see what is possible and see the ability of individuals that have a disability, because of the profile of the paralympics, and the number of the paralympics, and the number of sports that are showcased, so there is a huge variety of opportunity for people with a disability to get active. They can see it is done by others, they do not have to do it at that level but they know that they can do it at that level. The missing equation here, what Tanni Grey Thompson was talking about, access ability to something in your local communities, and in school as well. We know that it is possible and there is more awareness now, that there should be an opportunity more locally provided for people with a disability. All of which costs money. It is a combination of both, elite athlete, a very small percentage of anybody in any country will be, there is the starting block, inspiring people to be active or becoming involved in sport but The Next Step down is not making Little Johnny weight sport but The Next Step down is not making littlejohnny weight on a six month waiting list to get in his Gymnastics Club when he has been inspired, or telling my friends children that you cannot come here for three months because we do not have enough coaches, you need the facilities and structures in place so facilities and structures in place so that when you inspire people, they have somewhere to go, especially young people, because they are not going to hang around and wait for the opportunity. You can tell a ten year old to come back in six months, because then you can be coach, and the facilities will be ready, they will not wait, they will go. Elite inspiring, we have a role models, we have jonnie go. Elite inspiring, we have a role models, we havejonnie peacock, hannah cockroft, we have mo farah and Jessica Ennis hill, where are they going to go . There is a whole structure which needs to be in place of facilities, coaches, people, that then make it collectively happen, otherwise it is a waste of time, because the inspired will do Something Else or cannot be bothered. You cannot make them wait. There is more than double that going into community level. Doing exactly what we are doing. Disabled people, more diversity of opportunity, is a big focus for the likes of Sport England, sport scotland, sport wales, sport northern ireland. Looking around the world, you have travelled the world, sir craig, here we are, then renting the lack of opportunity and access here, but we dont know how blessed we are in the uk . I would not want anybody to downplay the effect of the very elite end over the last five or six years in this country. Look at what happened at the Paralympic Games in london, and the increase of understanding, of athletes with disabilities. That is the irony, the number of disabled taking part in physical activity is falling. Roughly the same thing happened out of the success of rio, the channel 4 cove rage was of the success of rio, the channel 4 coverage was splendid. As far as the ioc is concerned, we are without doubt the biggest sponsors of the paralympic movement, and will continue to be so. That top end is in good shape, i would never dream of suggesting to Tanni Grey Thompson how she solves the other problem, which i think is much greater. It is sad, i wish it was not there, if it is there, we must try as best we can. With that, we are blowing the final whistle on the special debate. My final whistle on the special debate. My thanks to the panel for a lively and frank discussion on some of the big Talking Points in the world of sport. Thank you very much to the audience, i think you have sport. Thank you very much to the audience, ithink you have provided the questions that have prompted and provoked the panel. Now we have had the debate, it is important to keep the debate, it is important to keep the conversation going. Help us to do that on social media, also view all revisit all of the reports and features that we have been running through the week by going to the bbc sport website or bbc world online. That is the state of sport, from jessica, and from me, goodbye. Beautiful weather on the way this weekend, we have been forecasting clear skies and High Pressure, that is exactly what is going to be happening over the next couple of days but with clear skies tonight, it will turn chilly very quickly, Big High Sitting on top of us, light winds across central parts of the uk and some mist and fog forming in one or two areas, but for most of us, starry night, temperatures will dip below freezing out of town, probably from north wales north, some places it will be down to minus four celsius. Nippy one first thing tomorrow morning, if you are one of those having a run first thing. Lots of sunshine around, High Pressure sticking around all through the course of the day, chilly breeze out southeast, certainly around the coast of east anglia, only 10 degrees on the coastline, further inland, around 14, 15, perhaps 16 degrees, couple more cloud around on sunday, overall, another beautiful day. Really lucky this weekend, because next week, looks like the weather will go downhilljust a little bit. Enjoy. This is bbc news. Im martine croxall. The headlines at 9 00. President trump is forced to abandon his Healthcare Bill after some republicans threatened to rebel. Obamacare is exploding. We arejust a few shorts votes short in terms of getting our bill passed. The westminster Attacker Police try to find out if Khalid Masood was working alone. Four people are still being questioned, while seven have been released, one on police bail. He went to school in Tunbridge Wells one of his former classmates says he was shocked when he realised what hed done. He was genuinely a nice guy, and i was upset today to think that he would have turned the way he has. An absurd to think that what