maybe that's - a little defeatist. but given that sort of context, i think broadcasters, - commissioners, are happier to try a few things out, - they might not have quite the vast budgets of some| of those old shows, and see what they can achieve - with newer, quirkier ideas. so this is a little move in the right direction, i i would suggest. and maybe a little bit on your territory, alex mahon from channel 4. chris just called both these shows bold — and they kind of are. one�*s on sky arts and... it is a poetry show, i know you want to call it spoken word, danielle! and, derek, what you're doing is very bold for a saturday night show as well, in terms of visuals and surprise. are those shows you'd like on channel 4, alex? they're both brilliant shows. i would love to have either of them. they�* re absolutely brilliant. does it mean you have to be bolder, though, if itv or sky arts are being as bold as channel 4...? that's not a bad thing. having competition's not a bad thing. having lots of shows for the uk public is not a bad thing. what i'm saying is, look, we're here about doing something that's about an economic