and had a very good head of news, who i put in place because i had known him a long, long - time and i trusted him. i think pretty much - i knew what was going on. as an editor of any kind, _ you never know where a reporter has got a story and how they have gone about that story. _ but what i would say is that i think there is a certain naivete - at the bbc in the case _ of martin bashir, which wouldn't have happened, oddly- and ironically, in fleet street. i think fleet street is much better, actually, at having suspicion- about its own reporters. i certainly was always asking questions of that kind. - but tell me this, if you had a particular reporter that was courting a source, was going out for meetings, would you generally have known about the ins and outs of those meetings? i think so, yes. i think, look, there is no doubt that this era, the '905, - was the wild west, right? it's completely different now.