Transcripts For BBCNEWS The Dark Side of Direct Sales 20240707

nasa postpones the launch of the artemis space rocket on its mission to the moon, due to last minute technical issues. the next opportunity for the launch is on friday. liz truss pulls out of a planned bbc interview tomorrow. it comes as the foreign secretary's team hit back at criticism of her economic plans from the institute for fiscal studies. pakistan makes a global appealfor help — after a flooding catastrophe that's killed more than a thousand people and affected 33 million. the ukrainian military has begun its long—awaited offensive on the southern front. it claims to have broken through the first line of russian defence around the main city of kherson. now on bbc news, our reporter lora jones investigates if workers are being exploited and if "hustle culture" has gone too far in the dark side of direct sales. the world of door—to—door sales and selling on the street has been rebooted for the social media age. young people are being promised big money, glam work trips abroad and the chance to work with some of the biggest brands in the uk. but the reality can be very different. i'm lora jones and, for the past year, i've been investigating the dark side of the direct sales industry. are young people chasing a dream they can never achieve? just, like, chews you up and spits you out. i probably blew about £2,000 in, like, road trips and stuff. wow! and i don't think i made that in the whole three months i was there. can't afford shampoo. you were trying so hard to project a kind of wolf of wall street image. i don't want to sound dramatic but it was like selling your soul. and could direct sales companies be breaking the law? i'm speechless. if they were here right now, . i would ask them what on earth they think they're up to. so, at this point in the day, i'm going to explain what you can expect to be doing in the business, essentially. you're learning the very basic skills... # and a girl like me... ..sales, you get marketing... # ..making money like me. ..time management, teamwork. # high—roll like me, making money like me, # taking over like me. # taking over like me! on average, you're looking at £350 to £400 a week as your starting pay. once you've done a certain amount of sales, you're doing things like recruitment, training, running road trips, basically building your own little empire, essentially. finally, when you're ready, ownership. now, generally, this whole process takes about 12 months, on average. at this stage, you are the master of your own destiny. money—wise, the owner has told me how much he made in the last 12 months, but i'm sure you'll appreciate, i'm not at liberty to discuss what he makes. i can tell you it's a decent wedge of money. i mean, be honest with me. what do you think of the business as a whole? and that is how you recruit 100 people in a year. there you go. has he got you hooked yet? that's the spiel matt would give potential recruits for the direct sales company he worked for. if you accepted the job, this is what your daily morning meeting might look like. atmosphere is where you go, every morning, before you go to the field, the field being the venue. so essentially getting you pumped up to sell. cheering. they put the music on really loud, so you have to shout, you have to project your voice. you're in a circle and they go, like, "high—rollers, you'll be making, like, 5100 _ "£100!" duh—duh—duh! then you go round and you high—five. whistling and cheering. it was like a party. people would be dancing. my managing director would come in. she would start dancing. it was weird. indistinct chanting. you basically want to test people and see if they can survive that atmosphere. if they're like a deer in the headlights, you knew they weren't going to last. one look at socials and it seems like the industry has had a face—lift. direct sales has been around for decades. it's a way of selling to customers away from physical shops, so door—to—door sales or chugging. and it's ramped up in the last few years. more peoplejoined during covid, when thejob market was looking a bit uncertain. it's now worth £2.6 billion a year in the uk. all these different companies are popping up on my phone. it looks like some direct sales offices arejumping on the popularity of hustle culture and this rise—and—grind mentality. this is a once—in—a—lifetime opportunity and you'd be an idiot to let it pass you by. i've networked in toilets at 7:00 in the morning, while meetings are going on. i've networked at midnight. i've networked in clubs, in bars, in pubs. it's just one of those things that you do consistently and constantly. initially, the culture and the promise of running his own business was something that really grabbed matt as a young grad in newcastle, back in 2018. it was described as sales and marketing, so kind of as a junior executive type thing, in very quick progression, lots of opportunities to advance. so they said within two weeks then i could expect to make £400 to £500 a week consistently. and then they said within three months as assistant manager, i could expect £1,000 a week. and then within three to nine months after that, six figures a year as the owner and manager of my own company. you know, that's more money than any graduate scheme at the time. i was hooked, i was all in. lauren started work at a different direct sales company in london in late 2020, for a month, when she was just 18. i was bartending in shoreditch, and i quit. i didn't quit, they let me go because of covid. i think it was going into the second lockdown. so i was applying to otherjobs, and the person who interviewed me, she was the manager of the company, she said, "what are your goals that you'd want to achieve?" and i said, "well, i'd love to retire my mum. "i'd love to be able to drive a nice car and just to travel," you know, she was just like, "well, we can do that. "that's so easy, just give," i remember she said that, "give100% at all times and you will get to your goals." how would you describe that moment when the penny dropped, that you were going to be standing on the street selling? it was an, "oh!" it was, it was just an, oh my god moment. and i've always said i wouldn't be one of those people, i couldn't do that for a job. and also it wasn't — it wasn't what it was described to me as. but lauren and matt chose to stick it out, driven by the idea of becoming entrepreneurs. she was selling it, selling it like it was like a dream job. and she just said, "if you put in the work, "you won't even be on the doors for long." it's a lifestyle that's sold to you, and it's that kind of instagram lifestyle of entrepreneur, grafter, hard work, etc, etc. that wolf of wall street mentality, you know, we've all seen that movie. everyone who came into that industry loved that movie, so you had to create the illusion of success. if you were a guy, then you had to wear suit, tie, dress shoes all the time. we were told, don't smoke roll—ups — proper cigarettes only. make sure your car was clean, hair, beard. i had a man bun when i first started and i got taken to one side and was like, "that's not ownership material." i mean, we all want to get rich, right? l yeah. that's why we're all here, i we're all wearing nice suits at 8:00 in the morning. they would really talk down on people that had normal jobs and normal lives, you know, if you had a nine to five, you were seen as less than if — because theyjust made you feel as if those kind of people do not want to be successful. some direct sales companies i've investigated take part in what's known as super challenge friday. don't make as many sales as your colleague? there could be consequences. once, stupidly, i'd been there about three months and there's this guy and he goes, "right, i'm going to do more sales than you "and i'm going to have your topknot." and obviously everyone laughed and i was like, "yeah, yeah, that's fine, whatever." thinking i couldn't possibly, it was so arrogant of me, so egotistical to think i couldn't lose to this person. and then i did, and the top knot came off. that same day, someone got slapped in the face with a fish. loads of people ate loads of chilli powder and cinnamon of an evening, like in the atmosphere. you realise it's weird, but because you're in that bubble, it normalises itself. on the surface, it might look like harmless fun, but is that really the case? is all of this positivity masking something a lot more toxic? i went to scotland to meet someone who thought exactly that. robbie, hey. you all right? good, it's nice to meet you. pleased to meet you, too. robbie joined a direct sales firm in glasgow, injune, 2019. in the seven months he was there, he was really successful, bringing in about £700 a week, selling mostly betting products. but it came at a price. by the end it was like, it was pretty grim. like, "exhausted" is the best word for it. you're so, like, down and you're like, "i can do this," but you're like, it's all going wrong. i haven't been to scouts, you don't see your friends because you work six days a week. i don't go to the football on the saturdays any more. and when you're told you can work five days, whatever days you want, but you're forced to work six, 14 hours and stuff like that. it's crazy, itjust, like, chews you up and spits you out. working long hours is something molly can relate to. she's now a make—up artist, but was at a direct sales firm in sheffield for three months, in 2018. she says she worked around 80—hour weeks and often had to fund road trips to sell in other cities. what would you say you earned on average, then, week to week? £100. erm, and i was working six days a week and that barely covered my train fares. and for the majority of my time at the company, because i know in comparison to a lot of people, i wasn't there that long, i still probably blew about £2,000 in like road trips and stuff... wow! ..and i don't think i made that in the whole three months i was there. molly told me that she ended up borrowing thousands from her family. i think i was really selling them the dream that i was sold, and saying, "it's only going to be like, a week, "or i'll make this back in a month, you know, "you'll have your money back "and i'll be paying for your life." i'll be buying you all the nice stuff, finally. and it's four years later and still haven't paid them back. so my leader, one time he pulled me aside and he said, "mate, what the eff, you know, your hair looks like... "..you look like garbage," basically. and ijust burst out crying and he was like, "why are you crying?" i went, "i can't afford shampoo and i can't afford hair gel." so i'd had to use like hand soap to try and make it look decent because i couldn't afford it, i didn't have the money for it. i was maxed out on credit card, loan was gone, overdraft was gone, i was absolutely skint. in the year he was there, matt says he only made £7,900, which isn't enough to live off. the drive to make money pushed some people to extreme lengths. so, my first day i was put with my leader and she just started running and i remember feeling super confused. running? like, just running. actually running? like physically running from each door to door. and i remember saying, "why are you running?" shejust said, "we have to run because the plan is, "when you do it, 100 doors equals four sales, "and you can't be on a doorfor longer than three seconds." so you're running for eight hours, no lunch breaks. and i remember midway through, i said to her, "when do we eat? "when do we go to the toilet?" she said, "i don't tend to take breaks "because, like, i'm missing sell time." i came into the office limping because my feet were swollen, like, my actual feet were swollen from all the consistent running that i was doing for, like, three days straight. and i wasjust in so much pain, and i had started my period. cramps were times a thousand, legs were swollen, back was killing me, but i still went in, and the plan was for me to change on the train. but the company lauren worked for didn't tell them where they were going in advance. she was sent on the tube and couldn't find a toilet. i've had an accident and i can feel it. and i'm like begging, like, "please find somewhere for me to change." i couldn't find anywhere that we could go. i wasn't allowed to go on my phone. my team leader, he said to me, "fine, i'll take you somewhere." so he finally took me somewhere to change. he wasjust being so rude to me, he said, "you're not giving 100%. do you even want this? "do you want to retire your mum? "do you want to live this life? "your period can't stop you from doing that." and i said, "it's notjust my period. "my feet are swollen. like, i have blisters." he said, "excuses, excuses." to be denied something so basic, like lauren was, going to the toilet, it's really shocking. and the more i hear about this industry, the more i'm questioning, why would somebody want to stay? there's a word that keeps cropping up in a lot of the conversations i'm having. it was very cult—like. like, they would worship my managing director. i remember one day, i literally was on our way, i said, "oh, my god, it's cold today." and they're like, "why would you say something like that?" i was like, "what do you mean? i'm just stating the weather." and they were like, "we don't complain about things "we can't control here." i was so, so scared of failing and letting everybody down. it was so hard to be able to think that this is toxic. this isn't how it should be. i was brainwashed, essentially. it's very...culty, you know... what is it exactly that makes you feel like it was cult—like? because it's so prescriptive, and they use such personal things against you if you disagree. you know, you've got people who are exhausted, not eating properly, probably don't have that much money, and you're saying we have all the answers if you do these very specific things. by the way, if you don't do these specific things, you will not hit your goals and achieve your dreams. a lot of these stories sound pretty similar, from the dreams they're being sold to the reality of the job. i've been collecting evidence for the last year and i've spoken to more than 40 people across the country about their time in the direct sales industry. lots of these people work for different sales firms but the set—up is really similar. if you want to get promoted, you not only have to do the sales but you have to recruit people underneath you who can hit those sales targets, too. once you reach a certain level, you start getting a cut of what they have sold as well. so, while it's not exactly a multi—level marketing scheme, there are some similarities. something i've discovered that links a lot of these companies? a business called credico. it's one of the biggest players in the direct sales industry. it's a company that essentially acts like a middleman. it contracts smaller sales companies who get their recruits to go out and sell on the streets on behalf of its clients, like talktalk or shell energy. it was originally set up in north america and it says its linked sales companies have a network of 15,000 agents. with more than 100 sales companies in the uk network, the owners have usually started out as salespeople themselves and worked their way up through the system. but it looks like there can be strings attached. i'm looking at documents about a recent court case involving credico, and this says they choose the accountants that you have to use if you're an office owner, they pay the commissions to the salespeople and they even choose the wording of the agreements that you have to sign when you join up to one of their linked sales offices. the weird thing is, though, the people i've spoken to don't actually seem to know that much about credico. i mean, i understood credico was involved but i didn't really understand what credico was. i'm not sure i still do understand, like — my understanding is, like, companies go to them to promote their product or something like that? the way it's described to us is credico is like uber. so, we were the taxi drivers and the passengers are the clients. so, credico would connect us and the clients together, they would give us the training materials and they would act as a go—between. we saw them every two months, something like that, they go and make sure that we haven't burnt the place down. like, that's — it was very rare, if ever. we saw the clients a lot more. and then i saw this line in one of the contracts. it's an agreement between a sales agent and the direct sales company they signed up to. i'm really confused by that, though, because the people i've spoken to said they were working full time, they were told where to go and what to sell and that they didn't really have any control. if you're really self—employed, can that be the case? most of the people i've spoken to at credico—linked companies said they felt like the recruitment process was misleading. about halfway through day one, they brought out the forms, which included a self—employment form, a declaration of self—employment, etc, etc. and it was at that point where someone kind of piped up and went, "so, what's the basic hourly?" and then they were like, "oh, you get paid this much per sale." and glossing over the fact there was no main... yeah, yeah, and then silence. so, you get this much per sale and these bonuses. and then obviously, i think, the penny kind of dropped for most people. it was like, "ah, right. "i see." lauren says she was made aware it was self—employed in an interview, but says the details were glossed over. the person who interviewed me, she was the manager of the company, and she basically explained that the job was commission only. and i didn't really have an understanding of what commission only was at the time because the way she explained it was "you get paid for your hard work". she said, you know, "people nowadays, "especially during covid, they get paid "for doing nothing. "it's kind of lazy. "here, you get paid for the work you put in." the more i hear, the more i'm asking myself, "what does the law say "and what options do people really have?" let's find out. luke menzies, an employment lawyer, has gone through evidence i've sent him and agreed to meet. so, i've put together some clips from young people i've spoken to up and down the country and i want to hear what you think about what they've told me. in terms of, like, who you've got looking out for you, then no—one. but you still have a uniform set working hours and set expectations, so it's all the bad points of self—employment with all the bad points of employment. they'd make it sound like it's not that big of a deal, that you're just working constantly. they'd make it sound like if you didn't come in on a saturday, even though you're self—employed and you're supposed to be able to choose your own hours, they make it seem like, "well, you're not going to get "to where you need to be, are you?" and did you ever try to push back on a saturday or a sunday? when i said to them, you know, like, "could ijust not show up "one day?" "like, if i'm self—employed, like, can ijust not wake up "one day and just choose to have a day off, "'cause isn't that what self—employed people do? " and they were just like, "i mean, you can. "there's nothing stopping you from doing it. "but we'd all be, like, disappointed." if you can't show up and you can't work your six days, you can't work your full hours — as was one of the pillars — then, you can't own your own business — simple as that. then i showed luke the rest of the evidence i've gathered. these young people, from what i've seen, are being exploited. it was interesting to hear that they recognised they could, in theory, push back. but the huge pressure on them — i would say manipulation — means that they're not in a position to really be able to do so, because of the consequences. having looked at the adverts, they are deeply misleading. others are slightly misleading. some actually say "salary". it's not something a self—employed contractor would have — they'd have fees or something like that — and i think it must be deliberate. and so, if i've signed this piece of paper, what can i do in that event? yeah, then we get into a murky area where you've signed a contract which says that you're not an employee and clearly, this business will be saying you're not an employee. but luke says there is something young people can do to challenge this — bring a claim. it seems to me, from what i've seen, that they would have the right to go to an employment tribunal and say, "i want my national minimum wage. "i want my holidays," whatever it may be. and they would have a right to bring that claim. who is ultimately responsible, then, for these young people? legally, it's going to be the directors of these specific individual businesses that sign up with the young people in these sales agreements. and that's probably, legally, where the buck stops. this is the only agreement i've seen that has the credico logo on it. what do they get out of distancing themselves from these companies? they reduce the risk of liability to credico. seems to me they may be encouraging people that work with them to set up a series of separate companies which are then in the firing line if anyone wants to claim, based on their employment rights, so it's a clever move. based on the evidence he's seen, luke thinks the people i've spoken to in different sales companies could be found to be workers, which means they'd be entitled to rights like the minimum wage and paid holiday. credico told me... and added... the sales companies our contributors worked with also told us they were confident the sales agents were properly self—employed. so, until it's tested in court, we won't know if the law is being broken. so, what do these stories say about the world of work and employment? are young people being exploited? darrenjones, labour mp and chair of the business committee, which investigates different issues and asks the government questions, had this to say. they are being exploited because they think they're signing up for an exciting job with a good salary that gives them prospects and actually, then, they arrive at the office, they're told they're self—employed, commission only, door—to—door salespeople that have to pay their own expenses. it seems clear to me that the law needs updating. i asked some of the big brands for a comment. credico is an approved supplier for shell energy, but a spokesman said they haven't used their services since october 2021. talktalk say they no longer have a relationship with credico, that they maintain robust standards for all their suppliers, and that the suggested practices are shocking. and as for the national deaf children's society, they say they weren't aware of the allegations and have already launched an investigation. they added that any malpractice they find as a result will be dealt with immediately. they have sector—leading safeguards in place for all staff, and say if anyone fundraising on their behalf has any concerns, they urge them to get in touch immediately. they added... regarding the incident where lauren wasn't able to go to the toilet, the company she worked for said that they don't advise sales agents that there are no toilet breaks or lunch breaks. as for the people i've spoken to, they have mixed feelings about their time in the industry. the long working hours that are unpaid and again used under the umbrella of "self—employed," so it looks like it's self—inflicted, makes me want to be sick. nothing i did in thatjob role was on my own terms. nothing at all. um... so, it's scary, because that's how they operate. if you could speak to somebody now who you brought into the business, what would you say to them? i have had these conversations. i'd say, you know, like, i've said, "i'm sorry," i still feel bad. you know, some of these people spent a year of their lives buying into this dream that we created together and that's, you know — a year of your life's a long time — and i do feel some guilt about that. it's not all bad, though. matt is still working in sales and says despite his bad experience working for a credico—linked company, it gave him skills to move on. as for robbie, he says he's got his life back again. you're back working at the family business, volunteering at scouts. how is it feeling generally? a lot better than it did in terms of the workplace environment as well. the people around are a lot friendlier, a lot less competitive. i'm a bit more confident in myself. i'm not going to just let these situations, like, happen again. i've spoken to so many people in direct sales making this doc. they are promised so much. while a few of them might make it, the reality is that some people are falling through the cracks without any protection. and until things change, the responsibility falls to them to look out for themselves. and maybe there's a wider question around why we feel so much pressure to give off this successful image online. maybe what we see as success needs to change. a cloud sitting in place and wanted to share his continuing and we will see a little bit of areas of cloud pushing into east anglia in lincolnshire bringing in a greater chance of some rain showers to take us into tuesday morning. temperatures in double figures by the rural parts of northern and western england and wales, we get down to five to 6 degrees but here on the sunniest conditions to start tuesday. elsewhere, sunshine will come and go and wanted two showers and maybe in the isle of man, that would dissipate through the day more cloud in the southeast and we can share the few showers in the sub is midlands the home counties but the further west you are in again lots of blue skies overhead and shelter coming in off the east which will keep temperatures limited to the mid teens across some parts of eastern scotland northeast england but in the sunshine for the south, highs of around 23 or 24. goodbye for now. today at six: devastating floods across pakistan — the government says a third of the country is now under water. over 1100 people have now died, and 33 million have been affected. translation: now all our belongings are buried under 12 to 13 feet of - water. when i left with my children, i saw my house collapse. as pakistan struggles to cope with the devastation of flooding, europe is on track to record its driest summer in 500 years. we report from spain, where a drought has destroyed harvests, leading to fears of higher food prices. nasa delays the launch of the first artemis flight to the moon, after technical complications. and revelling in its return — the notting hill carnival

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