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surprise you to hear that? yes, absolutely- _ surprise you to hear that? yes, absolutely- i— surprise you to hear that? yes, absolutely. i think _ surprise you to hear that? yes, absolutely. i think that, - surprise you to hear that? yes, absolutely. i think that, you . surprise you to hear that? yes, absolutely. i think that, you know, certainty— absolutely. i think that, you know, certainly when i was working for margaret — certainly when i was working for margaret thatcher and john major, in a situation _ margaret thatcher and john major, in a situation of such political weight. _ a situation of such political weight, so much hinged on it come a time, _ weight, so much hinged on it come a time, these — weight, so much hinged on it come a time, these are the lies which everyone _ time, these are the lies which everyone was having to obey. they were _ everyone was having to obey. they were draconian by normal standards. you would've got proper advice. he would _ you would've got proper advice. he would have — you would've got proper advice. he would have turned to the cabinet secretarv — would have turned to the cabinet secretary who in turn would have in legal _ secretary who in turn would have in legal advice, we would have had people _ legal advice, we would have had people crawling all over it. in fact he would've had people crawling all over it _ he would've had people crawling all over it before you started holding the parties. ithink over it before you started holding the parties. i think it showed a very— the parties. i think it showed a very kind of casual relationship really. — very kind of casual relationship really, with the public and parliaments that, you know, that they didn't, theyjust really took their— they didn't, theyjust really took their own — they didn't, theyjust really took their own view and it is hard, really— their own view and it is hard, really when you listen to the evidence. it is very hard to see how boris _ evidence. it is very hard to see how borisjohnson could really evidence. it is very hard to see how boris johnson could really think that those parties were within the rules, _ that those parties were within the rules, you — that those parties were within the rules, you know, for example, there

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