Now on bbc news, Talking Business. Hello, everybody. A very warm welcome to talking Business Weekly with me, aaron heslehurst. Lets go and take a look at whats on the show. Its sort of a false story they tell us when we go to university, were going to get a good job if you get good grades. And thats just a falsehood, in my opinion. Its about the experience, ultimately. And without the experience, many people just wont get into a good job. Yep, the great graduate gamble. Student debts are on the rise in many countries, while pay packets are failing to keep up with soaring prices. So does it still pay to go to university . Todays gloomy Economic Outlook has Many Companies cutting back, leaving graduates in some countries, like here in the uk, being offered lessjobs for, in real terms, less money. But its not all doom and gloom with other countries like india, singapore and the us still on the up. So whats it like to graduate and put your degree into practice . And what can todays students do to make getting that dream job a little easier . Im also going to be discussing all of this with these two, there they are, the Big Boss Of The Association Linking Thousands of colleges to careers across the United States, and the Chief Executive of the collective voice for universities here in the united kingdom. And to dig a little deeper, im going to be talking jobs with the global chief of people at one of the top graduate employers, the consulting giant deloitte. Wherever yourejoining me from around the world, once again, a big hello and a warm welcome to the show. You know, as students graduating from university and trying to enter the world of work, they are facing an uphill struggle in some of the worlds leading economies. Theyre a generation of learners who have faced a unique set of obstacles, with the onset of the covid pandemic shuttering classrooms, crippling social functions, the fun part, and ushering in remote learning. Now theyre entering a world of work, which in some places is offering fewer jobs and opportunities. Why . Well, employers theyre facing a gloomy economic picture in a world buffeted by war and a climate crisis, with looming recessions and spiralling costs. Despite this, more and more people are making the decision to enter into Higher Education, weighing up the costs and the potential benefits, hopefully to open the door to future jobs with higher wages, a path that by and large pays off. You know, People Holding degrees earn on average over 40 more than those without. But those degrees, like many things today, come with an increasing cost, with the us providing the most extreme example. Student loan debt in america has more than doubled in the past 20 years to over 1. 7 trillion. And here in england, a move towards a more american style Payment System has seen a similar upward growth, with the average student starting this year expected to owe over 50,000 by the end of their course. Now, if at the end of that course, you move straight into a graduatejob, well, that might seem like money well spent, but for others, its much more of a struggle. For example, in china, where theres more than 11 million graduates entering the workforce this year, facing an economy where, well, according to beijings latest numbers, over one in five, 16 to 24 year olds are out of work. And in some of europes major economies, like france and germany, where jobs for graduates were down nearly a quarter compared to last year and down nearly a third right here in the uk. But its a different story for Growth Markets like india and singapore, where the graduatejobs market, it is thriving. And the United States where low unemployment and falling Inflation Saw over 100,000 more graduate jobs advertise compared to last year. So, theres some of the numbers, but what about those who are just starting their journey . How are they finding it . Well, lets have a listen. As an international student, it was kind of really difficult for me to get a graduate job. I had to start applying and start looking into job and building my cv from year one, which again was really difficult for me because year one for me was all covid and it was 2020. But again, i just sort of tried to gain as much experience as i could and build a lot of soft skills along with my academic, strong academic record as well. So i would say personally that it has been a journey, but ive enjoyed it so far, and throughout ijust sort of focused more on building my skills rather than only focusing on the academic aspect. Because, like i said, these days, soft skills also matter a lot. I managed to secure a very good graduate role this year, but i count myself as extremely lucky. Everyone gets good grades nowadays, and it is simply so competitive, to be able to put yourself in good stead to get a good job opportunity or a graduate training contract, for me personally, i had to have previous Work Experience and that was a rarity among my cohorts. It is very difficult to, especially following post pandemic, to gain valuable Work Experience with for employers to make you even employable. Actually i find it quite hard to land a job. I i would say so because before i get thisjob, i send out hundreds of applications and had so many interviews with more than ten companies. As i actually started. Looking for a job quite early from june 2022, i tried so many graduate schemes with a lot of companies, but you know, ijust got| nothing from it. I sometimes, back in to the time thati i stayed unemployed, i asked myself, am i aiming too high . Am i not good enough for them . So thats the thing that, you know, its not easy to stay positive. Ok, so thats some of the graduates here in the uk who are just starting out. But lets jump across the pond now to the United States, where the jobs market, as ive mentioned, remains resilient. So, i caught up with the president of the National Association of colleges and employers. Shawn vanderziel, a real pleasure having you on the show. And shawn, let me start with this, because our data shows a relatively steady graduate jobs market in the us. Imjust wondering, shawn, how are you seeing things . The graduate job market for the Class Thatjust graduated is really good. Our Research Shows that companies are hiring about 4 more graduates this year than the Previous Year. And the Previous Year had a considerable increase due to the recalibration of College Graduates being hired from the previous covid decreases. And the overall Employment Landscape in the us is pretty good. While weve seen some slowing down in recent months, were still at historic low unemployment rates and we still have considerablejob growth month over month. Weve touched upon the seemingly ever rising costs of Higher Education in the us. I mean, with student debt, the levels there, its the second largest block of private debt in the country, its like 1. 7 trillion. How much, shawn, how much of a burden is that cost on graduates . Pursuing a College Education is really expensive and the Higher Education Community Needs to resolve this issue. If we are going to have more students go through the college experience, its a really big deal. But we also find that studies are showing that even students who have debt long after their Degree Completion, they still say that the Degree Completion was worth it. So theres a reckoning certainly that needs to happen here in the United States market. And as a person considering starting out in Higher Education in college or university, how do you weigh up those costs with your future Career Potential . Im wondering what kind of courses are proving popular. What we find is that obtaining a College Degree does pay off in salary, both short term and long term. Theres about a 20 to 30 premium in pay at each degree level on average that a person obtains. So a 20 to 30 at the associate� s degree level, another 20 to 30 at the bachelors degree level, so on and so forth. So it certainly is paying off in terms of salary. There are certain sectors and degrees which are hiring more than others right now, and so certainly students who are entering the Labour Market may be wanting to think about that. The highest demands for graduates right now tend to be in the transportation sector engineering services, finance and insurance, and in chemical pharmaceutical manufacturing. And how important is that firstjob after college or university . I mean, people people dont always know what field they want to work in straight out of Higher Education. The firstjob is an important one. It lays the foundation of your experience for the future, but also is a great time to explore and to really understand what you want to do on an ongoing basis. What we know from students in terms of whats important to them, they want a job with job security. They want to know that theyre going to develop some skills that they can take with them when they leave that company. And so looking for a job where you can develop skills, where its a company thats going to treat you really well, is really important in that firstjob. And shawn, let me end on this. What single piece of advice would you give to a recent graduate in the early stages of finding their way into the world of work, who havent yet started a Graduate Grade Job . Really focus in on your experiences while youre in college and take an inventory of all of those experiences, because its really important to employers, particularly anything where you have applied the skills and knowledge that you have obtained. Employers want to see that on your resume. Theyre going to want to hear about it when you interview with them. So take that inventory. Dont undercut any of the experiences youve had, whether its part time jobs, internships, apprenticeships, any other types of experiences, including projects that you have done in your coursework. Theyre all vitally important to tell the story about why you would be a great hire for that company. Shawn vanderziel, the big boss of the National Association of colleges and employers, a real pleasure having you on the show and well talk to you soon. Thank you so much. Well, back to the uk now because it is home to some of the worlds top institutions for Higher Education. But are they doing enough to prepare their students to take the next step . Well, to find out, ive gone straight to the source with the big boss of universities uk. Vivienne stern, areal pleasure having you on the show. And vivienne, lets start with this, because if we look at the numbers, lets be frank, theyre not great. I mean, theres a decline in the number of graduate jobs being advertised. Thats compared to last year. Starting salary increases, theyre well below inflation. Vivienne, just how difficult of a time is it for people leaving university at the moment . Well, i think youve got to take a short term and a long term view. I mean, the sort of broader economic conditions, i think theres a widespread consensus. Weve got to get our economy moving again and creating jobs and growing. But theres absolutely no question at all when you look at the longer term Labour Market needs, you know, we are going to need those graduates. Were going to need more graduates in the future than weve got now. So its always difficult for graduates who emerge when the economy is, you know, performing less well than wed like it to. I dont think were, you know, perhaps in some of the positions weve had during previous recessions where getting graduatejobs becomes quite difficult for a while. But in the medium to longer term, we need graduates, and the Labour Market, in fact is going to need quite a significant expansion in the number of graduates as we head towards 2035. Vivienne, it does feel seemingly particularly bad here in the uk. Why is that . Is itjust down to the economy, or is it a case that there are just too many graduates . In answer to your question of if there are too many graduates, absolutely not. I mean, we just completed a survey of ftse 350 leaders, and we were asking them to project forward to answer questions what they thought their businesses were going to need in the future. And its really striking. We obviously saw a lot of feedback on the subject of how technology was going to change the world of work, and particularly technologies like generative ai. And the people who are responsible for hiring staff into those ftse 350 businesses were saying, look, were going to need the kind of people who come to our businesses with the higher level thinking Transferable Skills that you get from being a graduate. And vivienne, as we know, uk students, theyre racking up more and more debt. With people starting out this year, theyre projected to owe around £110,000, thats overjust a 50,000, by the end of their course. Vivienne, how do you make sure going to university pays off . The first thing to say is it may feel like a huge cost, but weve got an income contingent loan scheme, so nobody has to pay up front to do an Undergraduate Degree in the uk. If youre a uk student, you can take a loan out. You only repay that loan, in the english system, once youre earning a decent salary and you pay that as a kind of marginal tax contribution. I do understand that it feels like a considerable investment and it is, you know, it really is a significant decision for an individual to to do a degree. But we know from lots of data that those people who do get a degree tend to earn more over the course of their lifetime. And we know, vivienne, universities here in the uk, theyre world leading, certainly one of the uks success stories, attracting students from all over the globe. With fees from International Students now a significant part of the financial make up of these institutions, is that, vivienne, is that set to expand . Im wondering if enough is being done to allow that area to grow. Well, i mean, look, International Students studying in the uk isjust kind of good all ways round. So, you know, the International Students who come and study with us, i think by and large they have a pretty great experience because as you say, weve got a very Good University system by international standards. Universities are better because theyve got students from all over the world. That makes for a really rich learning environment. We are going to interrupt Talking Business to bring you in some Breaking News coming in from the metropolitan police who have confirmed in the last few minutes that they have arrested a Terror Suspect whos escaped from Wandsworth Prison on wednesday. All the details we have from the metropolitan police is that we has been arrested just after 11am this morning. They did release a statement out there on this morning saying they believed he was in the west london chiswick area. They have no set on their website they appended him just after 11 oclock today, in the chiswick area, and that Daniel Khalife is in police custody. They are thanking the public and the media for the support in the investigation, and they will provide a further update on his arrest. Just remind you, Daniel Khalife escaped from Wandsworth Prison in south london on wednesday by clinging onto the underside of a Delivery Vehicle. Initially, police said they had no idea where he was, and they thought he may possibly have left the country, but they did continue focusing their efforts on searching the west and south london areas. Earlier on today, the met Police Confirmed that they were focusing their efforts in and around the chiswick area. This was after intelligence Light Activity and some confirmed sightings in that area overnight, including calls from members of the public. He said that police were continuing to come that area today, carrying out intensive search activity. They said that as far as what he looked like and what he was wearing, they believed he was wearing a black baseball cap, a black t shirt, dark coloured bottoms, and also carrying a small bag or case. They urged the public to continue to look out for him, and to continue to look out for him, and to contact 999 if they saw him, but they said please do not approach him, even though we dont believe he is a threat to the wider public. In the past few minutes, the metropolitan police have confirmed they have arrested this man, 21 year old Daniel Khalife, the ex soldier who escaped from Wandsworth Prison on wednesday will stop he escaped clinging to the under side of a truck, working in a kitchen at the time, and this was a food Delivery Vehicle. Lots of questions being asked about how he managed to escape a prison where he should have of course been secure, and many measures in place to make sure that prisoners cant escape. Various investigations under way into what went wrong there, but the police, the authorities will no doubt be extremely relieved that Daniel Khalife, a 21 year old former army soldier who was in prison on charges of trying to spy for an enemy state understood to be iran, he was due for trial in november, he escaped and they will no doubt be relieved that he has been apprehended and is backin that he has been apprehended and is back in police custody. They also released Footage Yesterday of mr khalife being transported in that vehicle. Near wandsworth with roundabout. A member of the public spotted mr khalife crawling out from under that vehicle, so that was a major lead for the police, and in the last few days they have been coming various parts of south and west london. Lets talk to our home affairs corresponding to is following all the updates for us. This confirmation no doubt a huge relief to the authorities in the last few minutes confirming that Daniel Khalife has been arrested. Hi, dominic, can you hear me . I think we are having problems with the line there. Just to reiterate, Daniel Khalife, a 21 year old ex soldier who was on Wandsworth Prison, due to stand trial in november, accused of trying to spy for an enemy state, obtaining information likely to be useful to a person preparing or committing an act of terrorism, and plotting a fake bomb hoax, he escaped prison on wednesday. He was working in the kitchen at the prison, and he managed to cling onto the underside of a Delivery Vehicle as it left the prison. We have now established connection with our home affairs correspondent, dominic. Just confirmation in the last few minutes that the police have arrested this man, Daniel Khalife, after a four day manhunt . Man, Daniel Khalife, after a fourday manhunt . Man, Daniel Khalife, after a fourda manhunt . ~ ,. , fourday manhunt . Absolutely. To be honest, i think fourday manhunt . Absolutely. To be honest, i think the fourday manhunt . Absolutely. To be honest, i think the champagne fourday manhunt . Absolutely. To be honest, i think the Champagne Corksl honest, i think the Champagne Corks are metaphorically popping at Scotland Yard. Despite the fact this guy has been on the run since the middle of the week after this extraordinary daring and sophisticated break out from prison, a very rare thing to happen, they have managed to track very rapidly. 0nce have managed to track very rapidly. Once it became clear that there are sightings, they were able to use all of their assets and technology. People on the ground have basically tightened the net over a series of hours, culminating into a very Rapid Movement of events this morning in chiswick in south west london. Just to bring you up to speed, ive been speaking to a contact at Scotland Yard. The details arent quite clear at the moment, but there were sightings of Daniel Khalife in the chiswick area, and effectively they were able to flood the area with officers, and get as much information as possible. 0nce officers, and get as much information as possible. Once you got a sighting, you then have an opportunity to pick out cctv and Traffic Cameras across the capital. I suspect our combination of these factors rapidly focused their resources on a tighter and tighter area. We were aware of activity, Police Activity in the area of chiswick gardens, and National Trust site. We dont know for sure that is where the arrest took place, but we know he is in custody. I am told, in relation to custody, he is currently with the police, so he has not been taken back to Wandsworth Prison, or to be frank, a more secure establishment, a category a establishment, a category a establishment, phil marsh. What will happen next isnt quite clear. A key element of the Counterterrorism Office in this case now is notjust that they have a man they were looking for, but whether or not he actually had any help from anybody else, because obviously a wider question about whether or not there is somebody out there who assisted in this break out, and they need to now track down and wring into custody as well. Now track down and wring into custody as well. This is a huge sto , custody as well. This is a huge story. Because custody as well. This is a huge story, because as custody as well. This is a huge story, because as you custody as well. This is a huge story, because as you say, custody as well. This is a huge story, because as you say, breakout story, because as you say, break out is extremely rare in this country, especially somebody who is in on such serious charges. Just remind us who 21 year old Daniel Khalife is, why he was in prison, and why this escape was so significant . Escape was so significant . Daniel khalife was escape was so significant . Daniel khalife was effectively escape was so significant . Daniel khalife was effectively remanded | escape was so significant . Daniel l khalife was effectively remanded in wandsworth, he was accused of crimes and awaiting trial. That was due to take place in november. He had already told the court he was going to plead not guilty to the three charges he faced. The first two of those charges are Terrorism Act charges, one of them relates to the acquiring of information about members of the armed services, which could be useful in preparing an act of terrorism. I know that sounds very serious, but in the whole scheme of terrorism legislation, it is a relatively minor offence to acquire information, where it is not quite clear what the alleged purpose of that would be. He pleaded not guilty to that, saying he had not committed any such offence. There was a second allegation that he had made a hoax bomb in parts of the barracks where he was based at mod stafford. Again, he pleaded not guilty to that, and denied that charge. After those charges were made against him injanuary this year, he was subsequently charged under the Official Secrets Act Of Gathering Information which could be useful to an enemy, and that is a much more serious charge, and the Official Secrets Act can lead up to 0fficial Secrets Act can lead up to 14 0fficial Secrets Act can lead up to 1a years in prison. That was formally made against him injuly. He has pleaded not guilty to that. Very Little Information about that is in the public domain, not least because these are what are called life proceedings, it is a life case, and Daniel Khalife is entitled to a fair trial and the opportunity to put his case before a jury, but we understand that allegation relates to iran, although we are not quite sure about the circumstances that will ultimately come to the trial, im sure it will be made clear during that persecution when it takes place. Of course now he is in custody, theres the obvious question about whether or not he will be charged in relation to the break out as well. That is something officers will have to consider over the coming days, along with the crown prosecution service. I know it may sound an obvious thing to state, that they still have to go through the process and assessed the evidence, drawing out the process before any such charge can be made against him. A really significant victory for counterterrorism. They got their man, they said they would get their man, it is obviously taking days, but it has been complicated, several officers involved, and they were increasingly confident once they got the initial sighting initially at Wandsworth Bridge in south london, where he actually popped out from underneath this for glory, that they would get him. That effectively gave them a crumb trail to follow, and that crumb trail to follow, and that crumb trail to follow, and that crumb trail is so important in these situations. 0nce Crumb Trail is so important in these situations. Once you have those sightings, you can start looking at, where did he go next . Lets you get the cctv, lets look at the door to door, lets look at the Financial Transactions in the area, those of a kind of thing that build up those of a kind of thing that build up very rapidly, and the one thing you can say is about these kinds of operations, they have got a lot of experience, Scotland Yard, and trying to catch out people very rapidly. Even if it takes days, generally speaking, they tend to get there in the end. figs generally speaking, they tend to get there in the end. There in the end. As you say, they not there there in the end. As you say, they got there in there in the end. As you say, they got there in the there in the end. As you say, they got there in the end. There in the end. As you say, they got there in the end. In there in the end. As you say, they got there in the end. In the got there in the end. In the immediate hours after his escape, they seemed pretty much in the dark . They were at a loss, and they didnt know if you had even left the country . Know if you had even left the count . ~ , know if you had even left the count , � , country . Absolutely. Ive been coverin country . Absolutely. Ive been covering terrorism country . Absolutely. Ive been covering terrorism stories country . Absolutely. Ive been| covering terrorism stories were almost 20 years, and the one standout factor about this compare to other Terrorism Investigations is that when a man breaks out of prison, you have to assume that he may not have a mobile phone, and he properly doesnt have some kind of payment card. In those two devices are absolutely critical to the digital picture, the digital sleep thing you can do to try to follow someone through a modern city. A mobile phone can be tracked if you know the number, you can look at the communications, you can potentially intercept the communications, although the Security Services will never publicly revealed the techniques they may be using to track a phone, but also a payment card. If someone has a payment card and police know what that payment card is, if somebody taps in our taps out of Something Like the London Underground or pays for something in the shop, that will raise an immediate flag to the financial investigator re officers, which means you have a trailer for that individual is. You can then track that person further. You can basically start to scope out where they will go from there, trying to get their head. It is possible that Daniel Khalife didnt have anything on him at all other than the chefs uniform. No mobile phone, no payment card. In the absence of any ability to digitally track him, you are entirely reliant on the goodwill of the public to help spot this individual and get the police get that first step. That is why it was critical they were doing this serious appeal from Scotland Yard saying, tell us anything that may sound like it is Daniel Khalife. 0bviously they were looking for someone who was initially wearing fairly obvious clothing, a chefs uniform of sorts. 0nce fairly obvious clothing, a chefs uniform of sorts. Once they get that initial siting, that is when they can start scoping where they are going to go next, and start tracking further. In my expense of watching these things with the police, it is very often the siting becomes critical, because once you get that, you can start follow up and chase and chase and chase. 0ne you can start follow up and chase and chase and chase. One of the biggest Terrorism Jobs i remember covering for colleagues is when we had a failed bomb attack in londons westend, which older viewers will remember resulted in literally a car chase all the way to glasgow, where the would be bomber who had failed in london then attacked glasgow airport. The police in that case were literally maybe an hour or so behind him all the way to glasgow as they tried to track his movements and understand what was going on. The technology and techniques are so advanced compared to that situation more than a decade ago, there was an awful lot of confidence