Transcripts For BBCNEWS Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg 20240707

History for all the wrong reasons. The shortest serving Prime Minister in british history. But what are the rest of us to make of it . We need a General Election now. There must be a General Election. We need another General Election. What is going on . He will be running. She is running. And he has come back from the caribbean claiming he has the backing to have a go. We have one big question this morning can any of them get a grip . This morning, werejoined live in the studio by one of the three contenders we invited on. Penny mordaunt is here. And the man leading the call for a General Election now, labour leader sir keir starmer. And a man who has been on a journey from deputy Prime Minister to borisjohnson to now supporting rishi sunak, dominic raab. Jacob rees mogg, who is a Boris Johnson evangelist. And away from british politics, ive been talking to ukraines defence minister, Oleksii Reznikov. With me listening to all the pitches this morning is former governor of the Bank Of England, mervyn king, Professorjane Green from Oxford University who will be talking us through the very latest polling and the former Conservative Party leader, sir Iain Duncan Smith. Good morning. A warm welcome to you, if youre watching here at home or away on bbc world. Extra points if you emailed us after last weeks show. You can do that any time at kuenssberg bbc. Co. Uk, or if you are social media inclined, use the hashtag bbclaurak. We do read them all and we will use some of them on the programme. Lets crack on. We are again waiting for the Conservative Party to make its mind up about its leader and our Prime Minister. Iam i am told rishi sunak will announce officially later today, and he and borisjohnson met officially later today, and he and Boris Johnson met face to face last night for what has been described to me as a friendly discussion. Contrary to some suggestions, it did not go on for hours and hours until extremely late but there is no sniff of what was agreed or not. Iain duncan smith, a former leader yourself and a significant voice in the party, have you made up your mind . ,. , � the party, have you made up your mind . Why the party, have you made up your mind . Why not . I the party, have you made up your. Mind . Why not . You mind . No, i havent. Why not . You know these mind . No, i havent. Why not . You know these people mind . No, i havent. Why not . You know these people very mind . No, i havent. Why not . You know these people very well. Mind . No, i havent. Why not . You know these people very well. Ive. Know these people very well. Ive been involved know these people very well. I� e been involved in 70 know these people very well. I� we been involved in 70 leadership campaigns, including my own, by the way, and run some, i have reached a stage with this one, really, where i didnt. I desperately want my party to settle down. In a way, it is not reallyjust about leadership. It is also about the wider party. Internally at the moment in the Conservative Party, Ijust Question whether any leader is going to be supported in quite the way they should be and that is one of the problems you have when you have been in power for problems you have when you have been in powerfor i2 problems you have when you have been in power for 12 years, problems you have when you have been in powerfor 12 years, is problems you have when you have been in power for 12 years, is that everybody starts thinking that they alone can save themselves and their seats because they are somehow different and they are going to be this, that and the other thing. The problem is right now, we have to decide whether or not we are going to make a go of this last two years in the run to the election, or not. Therefore, if we are going to pick somebody now, we have to pick someone we will get behind and that is it. We have a big challenge, huge economic issues, big issues around the war in europe, real problems as a result of the lockdown which are damaging every country in the developed world. Damaging every country in the developed world. Damaging every country in the develo ed world. A, ,. ,. , ~ developed world. Maybe you will make u. Developed world. Maybe you will make u our developed world. Maybe you will make up your mind developed world. Maybe you will make on your mind on developed world. Maybe you will make up your mind on the developed world. Maybe you will make up your mind on the programme developed world. Maybe you will make up your mind on the programme this. Up your mind on the programme this morning. Lets look at the front pages, which no surprise, splashed on many of them, images of Boris Johnson coming back into the country, claiming he has the support to run, the Sunday Express says boris is back, others taking a very different view, the observer saying the top Tories Sayjohnson Return would risk the death of the party. Interestingly, on the telegraph and some of the other papers, calls for the two men to unite butjane green, looking at the polling, how much damage has the last month or so dun . It is extraordinary, it is absolutely extraordinary, if you look absolutely extraordinary, if you look at absolutely extraordinary, if you look at the polls, you see the labour look at the polls, you see the labour party around 30 ahead, which is. Labour party around 30 ahead, which ism its labour party around 30 ahead, which ism its really labour party around 30 ahead, which is. Its really huge, i mean, this is. Its really huge, i mean, this is really. Is. Its really huge, i mean, this is really, really significant and of course, is really, really significant and of course, li2 is really, really significant and of course, liz truss own Personal Ratings course, liz truss own Personal Ratings were historically low and meanwhile, the real concern to the public meanwhile, the real concern to the public is meanwhile, the real concern to the public is the meanwhile, the real concern to the public is the economy. It is all of these public is the economy. It is all of these Public Sector issues. Not a leadership campaign. These Public Sector issues. Not a leadership campaign. Have you ever seen anything leadership campaign. Have you ever seen anything like leadership campaign. Have you ever seen anything like it, leadership campaign. Have you ever seen anything like it, that leadership campaign. Have you ever seen anything like it, that the seen anything like it, that the level of drop in support . I seen anything like it, that the level of drop in support . I think i have not seen level of drop in support . I think i have not seen anything level of drop in support . I think i have not seen anything quite level of drop in support . I think i have not seen anything quite like that, have not seen anything quite like that, you have not seen anything quite like that, you know, but we can look back at different that, you know, but we can look back at different Historic Events and think at different Historic Events and think about the big moments that shaped think about the big moments that shaped politics, you know, these kind ofm shaped politics, you know, these kind of. Like black wednesday, we often kind of. Like black wednesday, we often cite kind of. Like black wednesday, we often cite that because it was so important often cite that because it was so important for the conservative brand, important for the conservative brand, it important for the conservative brand, it was such an important moment brand, it was such an important moment which made many people question moment which made many people question the conservatives plus economic question the conservatives plus economic competence and it has so many economic competence and it has so many resonances with that particular moment many resonances with that particular moment. And many resonances with that particular moment. �. ,. ,. ,. , moment. And a profound moment oliticall moment. And a profound moment politically and moment. And a profound moment politically and economically, moment. And a profound moment politically and economically, lord | politically and economically, lord king. Does it seem to you as if the markets are the ones who have been in charge because it seems to a lot of people they basically bullied Liz Truss Out of office with of people they basically bullied Liz Truss Out of office witt of people they basically bullied Liz Truss Out of office with markets are not in charge. Truss out of office with markets are not in charge, government truss out of office with markets are not in charge, government and not in charge, government and centrai not in charge, government and Central Banks not in charge, government and Central Banks are not in charge, government and Central Banks are under not in charge, government and i Central Banks are under markets respond Central Banks are under markets respond to Central Banks are under markets respond to the Central Banks are under markets respond to the announcements. Central banks are under markets respond to the announcements made by government respond to the announcements made by government and respond to the announcements made by government and central respond to the announcements made by government and Central Banks respond to the announcements made by government and Central Banks and government and Central Banks and centrai government and Central Banks and Central Banks government and Central Banks and Central Banks have government and Central Banks and Central Banks have lost government and Central Banks and Central Banks have lost Control Government and Central Banks and Central Banks have lost control of. Central banks have lost control of inflation, Central Banks have lost control of inflation, the Central Banks have lost control of inflation, the Government Central banks have lost control of inflation, the government has. Central banks have lost control ofl inflation, the government has lost control inflation, the government has lost control of inflation, the government has lost control of the inflation, the government has lost control of the public inflation, the government has lost control of the public finance, inflation, the government has lost control of the public finance, not i control of the public finance, not surprising control of the public finance, not surprising that control of the public finance, not surprising that markets control of the public finance, not surprising that Markets Respondl control of the public finance, not l surprising that markets respond to that surprising that markets respond to that. �. , surprising that markets respond to that. , surprising that markets respond to that. � , that. And whose responsibility was it is both the that. And whose responsibility was it is both the central that. And whose responsibility was it is both the central bank that. And whose responsibility was it is both the central bank and that. And whose responsibility was it is both the central bank and the | it is both the central bank and the government does control . I it is both the central bank and the government does control . It is both the central bank and the government does control . I think all Central Banks government does control . I think all Central Banks in government does control . I think all Central Banks in the government does control . I think all Central Banks in the west, Central Banks in the west, interestingly, Central Banks in the west, interestingly, have Central Banks in the west, interestingly, have made. Central banks in the west,. Interestingly, have made the Central Banks in the west, interestingly, have made the west, interestingly. Interestingly, have made the west, interestingly, have interestingly, have made the west, interestingly, have made interestingly, have made the west, interestingly, have made this interestingly, have made the west, interestingly, have made this a interestingly, have made this a mistake. Interestingly, have made this a mistake, during interestingly, have made this a mistake, during covid, interestingly, have made this a mistake, during covid, when i interestingly, have made this a. Mistake, during covid, when the economy mistake, during covid, when the economy was mistake, during covid, when the economy was contracting mistake, during covid, when thel economy was contracting because mistake, during covid, when the economy was contracting because of lockdown, economy was contracting because of lockdown, Central Economy was contracting because of lockdown, Central Banks economy was contracting because of lockdown, Central Banks decided economy was contracting because of lockdown, Central Banks decided it l lockdown, Central Banks decided it was a lockdown, Central Banks decided it was a good lockdown, Central Banks decided it was a good time lockdown, Central Banks decided it was a good time to lockdown, Central Banks decided it was a good time to print lockdown, Central Banks decided it was a good time to print a lockdown, Central Banks decided it was a good time to print a lot lockdown, Central Banks decided it was a good time to print a lot of. Was a good time to print a lot of money was a good time to print a lot of money and was a good time to print a lot of money and that was a good time to print a lot of money and that was was a good time to print a lot of money and that was inflation,. Was a good time to print a lot of. Money and that was inflation, you had too money and that was inflation, you had too much money and that was inflation, you had too much money money and that was inflation, you had too much Money Chasing money and that was inflation, you had too much Money Chasing tool money and that was inflation, you i had too much Money Chasing too few goods had too much Money Chasing too few goods and had too much Money Chasing too few goods and the had too much Money Chasing too few goods and the result had too much Money Chasing too few goods and the result was had too much Money Chasing too few goods and the result was inflation,. Goods and the result was inflation, that was goods and the result was inflation, that was predictable, goods and the result was inflation, that was predictable, it goods and the result was inflation, that was predictable, it was that was predictable, it was predicted that was predictable, it was predicted and that was predictable, it was predicted and it that was predictable, it was predicted and it happened. I that was predictable, it was predicted and it happened. That is one problem predicted and it happened. That is one problem we predicted and it happened. That is one problem we have predicted and it happened. That is one problem we have to predicted and it happened. That is one problem we have to try predicted and it happened. That is one problem we have to try to predicted and it happened. That is one problem we have to try to geti one problem we have to try to get out of one problem we have to try to get out of but one problem we have to try to get out of but the one problem we have to try to get out of. But the public one problem we have to try to get out of. But the public finances, i out of. But the public finances, both out of. But the public finances, both in out of. But the public finances, both in the out of. But the public finances, both in the us out of. But the public finances, both in the us and out of. But the public finances, both in the us and the out of. But the public finances, both in the us and the uk, out of. But the public finances, i both in the us and the uk, were out of. But the public finances, both in the us and the uk, were not put on both in the us and the uk, were not put ona both in the us and the uk, were not put on a sustainable both in the us and the uk, were not put on a sustainable track both in the us and the uk, were not put on a sustainable track and both in the us and the uk, were not put on a sustainable track and the l put on a sustainable track and the markets put on a sustainable track and the markets responded put on a sustainable track and the markets responded to put on a sustainable track and the markets responded to that. Put on a sustainable track and the markets responded to that. Me i put on a sustainable track and the markets responded to that. We will din into markets responded to that. We will dig into more markets responded to that. We will dig into more of markets responded to that. We will dig into more of that, markets responded to that. We will dig into more of that, fascinating. Dig into more of that, fascinating to hear those remarks about the Bank Of England and what they have been up of england and what they have been up to. In a second, well hear from one of the trio who wants the top job. But this time last week, we didnt even know thered be a contest up and running. The Chancellorjeremy Hunt told us there were hard times ahead we didnt knowjust how difficult for the woman then in downing street. On monday, mr hunt ditched even more of liz trusss plans from his new desk in the treasury. That night, though, under the glare of a portrait of her heroine Margaret Thatcher in number 10, she said she wasnt going anywhere. Will you lead the conservatives into the next General Election . I will lead the conservatives into the next General Election. Definitely . Well, look, yeah. Still, underattack at Prime Ministers questions again, ms truss said she wouldnt budge. Mr speaker, i am a fighter and not a quitter. But that afternoon, her Home Secretary was sacked. A vote in the commons that night turned to chaos, with claims mps were nearly brawling in the lobbies, number 10 desperately clarifying what went on at 1. 30 in the morning. With no plan that bore her name left, and no authority to speak of, the party decided it was time to bring the misery to an end. Yes the conservatives decided it was time for yet another Prime Minister. So with one out, who of the three will be in . Right now, the latest confirmed numbers are Rishi Sunak Way Out In Front on 129, borisjohnson on 53 and my next guest Penny Mordaunt on 23. Thank you for coming in. I know it is a busy time for you. Good morning. fist i know it is a busy time for you. Good morning. I know it is a busy time for you. Good morning. At the conservative conference good morning. At the conservative conference this good morning. At the conservative conference this year, good morning. At the conservative conference this year, you good morning. At the conservative conference this year, you said good morning. At the conservative conference this year, you said that| conference this year, you said that Liz Truss Pluck mass liz truss policies were great, do you still think that . I policies were great, do you still think that . Policies were great, do you still think that . I think she was right that we needed think that . I think she was right that we needed to think that . I think she was right that we needed to focus think that . I think she was right that we needed to focus on think that . I think she was right i that we needed to focus on growth but as you remember from the contest we had in the summer, i was more cautious about how we did that. I felt we had to be really focusing on supply side changes and i set out some principles on which we should be taking decisions. I wanted us to be taking decisions. I wanted us to be taxed competitive. But despite pressure from my colleagues, i wouldnt commit to numbers or a particular timetable. Why . Because i was very aware of the dangers of doing that. But was very aware of the dangers of doing that was very aware of the dangers of doinu that. � ,. , doing that. But you were part of liz truss government doing that. But you were part of liz truss government so doing that. But you were part of liz truss government so you doing that. But you were part of liz truss government so you agreed i doing that. But you were part of liz| truss government so you agreed to those policies, unless, did you raise private concerns about what might happen once you were there . Well, i very much regret the mini budget, as it has become known. Liz truss said that certain aspects of that, the cabinet was not aware of. But what is absolutely critical is that we now have stability and we rebuild confidence top white but it is an important point. That is absolutely vital. But is an important point. That is absolutely vital. Absolutely vital. But it is an important absolutely vital. But it is an important point absolutely vital. But it is an important point because. Absolutely vital. But it is an | important point because our absolutely vital. But it is an important point because our viewers, many of them believe they are already suffering because of the costs and consequences of liz truss decisions. People will want to know, did you raise concerns when you are in the government and part of those decisions . I in the government and part of those decisions . ,. ,. , decisions . I have raised concerns even before decisions . I have raised concerns even before i decisions . I have raised concerns even before i got decisions . I have raised concerns even before i got into decisions . I have raised concerns even before i got into the decisions . I have raised concernsl even before i got into the cabinet, laura, and that is why i ran on the platform i did in the summer. I was a Halfway House between rishi sunak and liz truss. I deeply regret that the debate now is about, are you for stability or low taxes . That is not the right construct. They are two sides of the same coin. You have to have stability in order to deliver low tax and you have to have low taxes in order to grow the economy and create that stability. That is what i am standing for. That is why i think i am best placed to unite our party. To i thinki am best placed to unite our a. , i thinki am best placed to unite our party i thinki am best placed to unite oura. ,. ,~. , our party. To be really clear, you have said our party. To be really clear, you have said you our party. To be really clear, you have said you will our party. To be really clear, you have said you will keep our party. To be really clear, you have said you will keep jeremy. Our party. To be really clear, you i have said you will keep jeremy hunt have said you will Keepjeremy Hunt as chancellor. He has said there will have to be tax rises and plans to cut spending. Where would you cut if he were Prime Minister . So to cut spending. Where would you cut if he were Prime Minister . If he were Prime Minister . So the reason why if he were Prime Minister . So the reason why i if he were Prime Minister . So the reason why i have if he were Prime Minister . So the reason why i have been if he were Prime Minister . So the reason why i have been in if he were Prime Minister . So the reason why i have been in the reason why i have been in the treasury, been through his plans with him, withjeremy hunt. You treasury, been through his plans with him, with jeremy hunt. You have sat and talked with him, with jeremy hunt. You have sat and talked through with him, with jeremy hunt. You have sat and talked through them with him, with jeremy hunt. You have sat and talked through them with sat and talked through them with him . , � ,. , sat and talked through them with him . , � , him . Yes, ive sat in the treasury and been him . Yes, ive sat in the treasury and been briefed him . Yes, ive sat in the treasury and been briefed by him . Yes, ive sat in the treasury and been briefed by him him . Yes, ive sat in the treasury and been briefed by him and him . Yes, ive sat in the treasury and been briefed by him and i him . Yes, ive sat in the treasury. And been briefed by him and i think it is helpful to set out to the viewers what is going to happen because obviously, at the end of the week, the coming week, we will have a leadership contest done and we will have a new Prime Minister and then the following monday, the chancellor delivers his statement. I think it is incredibly important, that timetable stays. I am the candidate that has said jeremy hunt must stay as chancellor because that smooth transition of power and that continuity is absolutely vital. What i am not going to do, law, although i am not going to do, law, although i sense you are going to push very hard, during this campaign, is i am not going to talk about the details of that package, what might come forward all decisions that are in the Bank Of Englands remit. That would be wrong. We have got to put the country but. But would be wrong. We have got to put the country but the country but. But to be completely the country but. But to be completely clear, the country but. But to be completely clear, though, the country but. But to be i completely clear, though, a the country but. But to be completely clear, though, a Penny Mordaunt Prime Minister would alongside Chancellorjeremy Hunt in tax rises and Spending Cuts . I am tax rises and Spending Cuts . I am not auoin tax rises and Spending Cuts . I am not going to tax rises and Spending Cuts . I am not going to be tax rises and Spending Cuts . I am not going to be drawn tax rises and Spending Cuts . I n not going to be drawn on this. Tax rises and Spending Cuts . I am | not going to be drawn on this. That is what he said, not going to be drawn on this. That is what he said, that not going to be drawn on this. That is what he said, that is what he told us last week on this programme. He is making a statement to the commons and i am not going to elaborate on that. What is important is that we recognise we are going into a very difficult winter. We recognise that people are going to need to be protected and supported through that. That is why we have got to really double down on the supply side changes and we have just got to be realistic about what it is we are going to need to do. I got to be realistic about what it is we are going to need to do. I think eole we are going to need to do. I think people want we are going to need to do. I think people want to we are going to need to do. I think people want to hear we are going to need to do. I think people want to hear you we are going to need to do. I think people want to hear you being people want to hear you being realistic about what your priorities would be. I understand you dont want to get into micro detail but i think that the viewers would like an indication of what your priorities would be so i am going to ask you to try to give us some brief answers on things you may or may not do. Would you make cuts to the Health Service . Well, let me. What might be helpful, laura, is to remind you of the platform i stood on in the summer. That might be a way of satisfying your question but not talking about the current circumstances. As i said, i was that Halfway House. I very much recognise that people needed support. I suggested ways we could do that, things that wouldnt exacerbate inflation, targeted and measured tax cuts. I also very much recognise that we were going to have to protect services, and actually, that is Whatjeremy Hunt is going to do. Lets press on that, then, so in principle, would you make cuts to the Health Service, yes or no . Look, we have to the Health Service, yes or no . Look, we have to recognise the Health Service, yes or no . Look, we have to recognise we the Health Service, yes or no . Look, we have to recognise we have we have to recognise we have enormous backlogs so we are going to. At any time in the last 12 years as a conservative Government Role by good health spending. 50 years as a conservative Government Role by good health spending. So you wouldnt make role by good health spending. So you wouldnt make cuts role by good health spending. So you wouldnt make cuts to role by good health spending. So you wouldnt make cuts to the role by good health spending. So you wouldnt make cuts to the health wouldnt make cuts to the Health Service . ~. ,. ,. ,. ,. ,~ service . What we have to do is make Efficiency Savings, service . What we have to do is make Efficiency Savings, but service . What we have to do is make Efficiency Savings, but what service . What we have to do is make Efficiency Savings, but what we service . What we have to do is make Efficiency Savings, but what we have | Efficiency Savings, but what we have to do is ensure that those services that people need, and we are still recovering from the pandemic, are there. I am recovering from the pandemic, are there. Iam not recovering from the pandemic, are there. I am not going to be drawn into the detail of this but what is important for your viewers is to understand that i recognise that people are going to need support, that our Health Service is under immense strain. That our Health Service is under immense strain. And what about Defence Spending, immense strain. And what about Defence Spending, would immense strain. And what about Defence Spending, would you immense strain. And what about Defence Spending, would you increase Defence Spending, would you increase Defence Spending, would you increase Defence Spending to 3 of gdp . I know its close to your heart. If people dont know my views on the necessary reason why we have strong defence, then they. That necessary reason why we have strong defence, then they. Defence, then they. That is why im defence, then they. That is why im asking defence, then they. That is why im asking you. Defence, then they. That is why im asking you, does defence, then they. That is why im asking you, does that defence, then they. That is why im asking you, does that mean l defence, then they. That is why i im asking you, does that mean 396 defence, then they. That is why im asking you, does that mean 396 of im asking you, does that mean 3 of gdp . I im asking you, does that mean 396 of gdp . 4. ,. ,. , im asking you, does that mean 396 of gdp . ~. ,. ,. , , gdp . I know that me not giving you an answer to gdp . I know that me not giving you an answer to that gdp . I know that me not giving you an answer to that question gdp . I know that me not giving you an answer to that question is gdp . I know that me not giving you an answer to that question is to gdp . I know that me not giving you an answer to that question is to my | an answer to that question is to my detriment, but i am putting the country first. We have got to have stability and we have got to. We cant have people in this context, i know it is only a week, mercifully, making spending commitments. We must stick to the process. What making spending commitments. We must stick to the process. Stick to the process. What about stickin stick to the process. What about sticking to stick to the process. What about sticking to the stick to the process. What about sticking to the triple stick to the process. What about sticking to the triple lock . Stick to the process. What about sticking to the triple lock . That| stick to the process. What about | sticking to the triple lock . That is something that protects pensioners� incomes and has been totemic for the Conservative Party, would you stick to that . Im Conservative Party, would you stick to that . �. , Conservative Party, would you stick to that . �. , ,. ,. , to that . Im really proud we brought that in and i to that . Im really proud we brought that in and i recognise to that . Im really proud we brought that in and i recognise that to that . Im really proud we brought that in and i recognise that the that in and i recognise that the older people get, the higher the cost of living, it is something the conservatives have done. I am very proud of our record in government. So will you stick to it . It� s in the manifesto. Hf so will you stick to it . Its in the manifesto manifesto. If we conservatives remember manifesto. If we conservatives remember our manifesto. If we conservatives remember our record manifesto. If we conservatives remember our record since manifesto. If we conservatives l remember our record since 2010 manifesto. If we conservatives remember our record since 2010 when we took over, when there was no money left, what we have done on pension income, how many people we have brought into work in to work on a 4 million. Have brought into work in to work on a 4 million a 4 million. That was in the manifesto a 4 million. That was in the manifesto so a 4 million. That was in the manifesto so do a 4 million. That was in the manifesto so do you a 4 million. That was in the manifesto so do you stand | a 4 million. That was in the manifesto so do you stand white . A 4 million. That was in the manifesto so do you stand white . Are not manifesto so do you stand white . Site not going to be drawn on it. Manifesto so do you stand white . Are not going to be drawn on it. Ok. Manifesto so do you stand white . Are not going to be drawn on it. Ok. But l not going to be drawn on it. Ok. But what i will say because i understand people want reassurance and i want our party to remember this week what we all have in common, the achievements we have made together, the manifesto that we stood on together because that is our mandate, the 2019 manifesto. But you said at a couple of weeks ago. But you said at a couple of weeks auo. ~ , but you said at a couple of weeks auo. ,. ,. ,. , ago. We must remember our mandate lies in the 2019 ago. We must remember our mandate lies in the 2019 manifesto. Ago. We must remember our mandate lies in the 2019 manifesto. If ago. We must remember our mandate lies in the 2019 manifesto. If we lies in the 2019 manifesto. If we remember what we all wanted to do at the last election, our ambitions for the last election, our ambitions for the country to deliver on those wishes people set out in 2016, and that will help unite us. fine wishes people set out in 2016, and that will help unite us. That will help unite us. One of the conservative that will help unite us. One of the conservative ambitions that will help unite us. One of the conservative ambitions would that will help unite us. One of the conservative ambitions would be l that will help unite us. One of the. Conservative ambitions would be to get immigration under 100,000, do you share that ambition still . Again, i� m not being drawn on the detail. Again, im not being drawn on the detail. ,. Again, im not being drawn on the detail. ,. ,. ,. , detail. That is a question about rincile. Detail. That is a question about principle. Some detail. That is a question about principle. Some people detail. That is a question about principle. Some people in detail. That is a question about principle. Some people in your| detail. That is a question about principle. Some people in your party are pro emigration, they think it will help grow the economy, other people in the Conservative Party stand by a promise to get immigration under 100,000. That is nothing to do with the intricate decisions in the budget coming up. I believe in evidence based policy making, i also believe in cabinet collective responsibility, and one of the differences you will see if i� m Prime Minister is that is how i will take decisions. I won� t be imposing. I have my views but i won� t be imposing use i have made up in a room by myself. I will be talking with my cabinet. Lets talk about how that talking with my cabinet. Lets talk about how that might talking with my cabinet. Lets talk about how that might work. Talking with my cabinet. Lets talk about how that might work. As i talking with my cabinet. Lets talk| about how that might work. As the numbers stand, it doesn� t look like you will get to the final two in the contest. I you will get to the final two in the contest. ,. , you will get to the final two in the contest do i you will get to the final two in the l contest. Do you contest. I will remind you. Do you think ou contest. I will remind you. Do you think you can contest. I will remind you. Do you think you can still contest. I will remind you. Do you think you can still make contest. I will remind you. Do you think you can still make it . Contest. I will remind you. Do you think you can still make it . In contest. I will remind you. Do you think you can still make it . In the l think you can still make it . In the last contest think you can still make it . In the last contest i think you can still make it . In the last contest i got think you can still make it . In the last contest i got 105, think you can still make it . In the last contest i got 105, and think you can still make it . In the last contest i got 105, and you think you can still make it . In the | last contest i got 105, and you will see from those who are in the Public Domain we are taking support from other camps. Damian green hasjoined my campaign from rishi, we have marcus fish who has joined my campaign. D0 marcus fish who has oined my campaign. H marcus fish who has oined my camrain. Campaign. Do you think you can make it to campaign. Do you think you can make it to 100 . Campaign. Do you think you can make it to 100 . Im campaign. Do you think you can make it to 100 . Im a campaign. Do you think you can make it to 100 . Im a sawy make it to 100 . Im a savvy campaigner. Make it to 100 . Im a savvy campaigner, im make it to 100 . Im a savvy campaigner, im not make it to 100 . Im a sawy| campaigner, im not sharing make it to 100 . Im a sawy campaigner, im not sharing my campaigner, i� m not sharing my canvassing data with the others. I am confident about the progress we are making and i am in this to win it. Its are making and i am in this to win it. It� s important for our party. We have a contest, i� m very confident about our numbers. The reason why i� m doing this is because i think i am best placed to bring the party together. We have got to come together. We have got to come together. We have got to come together. We can� t deliver for people. People are fed up of the factional rows, the focus on ourselves. We have got to remember why we came into this place in the first place. It was to serve our constituents and communities. There is a re aort constituents and communities. There is a report this constituents and communities. There is a report this morning constituents and communities. There is a report this morning you constituents and communities. There is a report this morning you have beenin is a report this morning you have been in touch with borisjohnson� s camp offering your support in return for a job. Camp offering your support in return forajob. It camp offering your support in return for a ob. Camp offering your support in return fora ob. ,. , , camp offering your support in return for a job you camp offering your support in return for a job. You have l for a ob. It is nonsense. You have said for ajob. It is nonsense. You have said ou for ajob. It is nonsense. You have said you are for ajob. It is nonsense. You have said you are confident for ajob. It is nonsense. You have said you are confident you for ajob. It is nonsense. You have said you are confident you will for a job. It is nonsense. You have l said you are confident you will make the numbers, but in your view who would make a better Prime Minister . Rishi sunak or borisjohnson . I am rishi sunak or Boris Johnson . I am not contemplating rishi sunak or borisjohnson . Han not contemplating how the other camps are organising themselves. What this country needs is a Prime Minister that understands their lives. I wasn� t given my seat, i took it, ifought lives. I wasn� t given my seat, i took it, i fought it for seven years and took it from labour, and every time i have been to the ballot box since i have increased my vote share. That is because i work hard, i listen to people, i know why i� m in politics but it� s also because i know there is no point in any politician telling the electorate how much they understand them, you only win elections when those people feel understood. That is why we need to stop focusing on ourselves and westminster and start focusing on them. I westminster and start focusing on them. ,. , i. Westminster and start focusing on them. ,. ,. ,. , them. I know you are passionate about why them. I know you are passionate about why you them. I know you are passionate about why you came them. I know you are passionate about why you came into them. I know you are passionate about why you came into politics them. I know you are passionate about why you came into politics and you fought hard to keep your seat and vote share growing. Given how strongly you feel about the concept of public service, would you be comfortable about borisjohnson returning to office when he left in disgrace . Its returning to office when he left in disirace . �. , returning to office when he left in disirace . � ,. ,. , returning to office when he left in disirace . �. ,. , � , disgrace . Its not about him, its not about me. Disgrace . Its not about him, its not about me, its disgrace . Its not about him, its not about me, its about disgrace . Its not about him, its not about me, its about the disgrace . Its not about him, its i not about me, its about the public. Not about me, it� s about the public. We have got to. We coined the phrase the westminster bubble, it is. It� s not about us, it� s about what we do, it� s about people being able to see their gp, about people being able to get through winter without being worried how to keep the heating and the lights on. In the heating and the lights on. In some people are very unhappy, im some people are very unhappy, i� m sure you have had it in your mailbox, and one of our viewers, keith has e mailed saying the conservatives may have the constitutional right to avoid an election but they don� t have the democratic or moral legitimacy to avoid it so how do you answer that . At the 2019 election, we had a huge majority under mandate to deliver that manifesto. The country now doesn� t need a six weeks of chaos and more westminster bubble. What it needsis and more westminster bubble. What it needs is for us to deliver, open up access to Healthca Re Needs is for us to deliver, open up access to healthcare services, all of those bread and that people just want to work better. That is our mandate, and i also think it is incredibly important that we remember that as a party, that we come together and we actually start to work on that. Ok. Come together and we actually start to work on that. Come together and we actually start to work on that. Ok. Penny mordaunt, we must leave to work on that. Ok. Penny mordaunt, we must leave it to work on that. Ok. Penny mordaunt, we must leave it there to work on that. Ok. Penny mordaunt, we must leave it there but to work on that. Ok. Penny mordaunt, we must leave it there but thank to work on that. Ok. Penny mordaunt, we must leave it there but thank you | we must leave it there but thank you for coming in. It� s been a fascinating 211 hours. We will be keeping an eye on the numbers of mps all the way to the end of the show. If you want to get in touch about what you have seen this morning or have an idea of something we should discuss, you can send an e mail. The address is there for you. If you are social media inclined, the bbclaurak is there and the website has lots of interesting news and features. Let� s hear what our panel made of that. Ian, you were undecided at the start. Penny convinced you . Im ian, you were undecided at the start. Penny convinced you . Im not iioin to start. Penny convinced you . Im not going to declare start. Penny convinced you . Im not going to declare during start. Penny convinced you . Im not going to declare during the start. Penny convinced you . Im not going to declare during the course l going to declare during the course of this programme but what we saw there was the same problem every of these candidates will face. It is a Conservative Party that can� t make its mind up at the moment whether it wants to see savings through Public Expenditure or whether it wants to see higher taxes. The problem with higher taxes is the less Business Investment you will get and the more short term the process is, so there are Big Decisions to be made. I suspect any of the three candidates will have to arrive at almost exactly the same conclusion. You cannot get away from the fact you will have to see Efficiency Savings in Public Expenditure, but there are other things to do as well like the d regularisation process to increase the efficiency and productivity of the efficiency and productivity of the british economy. The efficiency and productivity of the british economy. What about the rosect of the british economy. What about the prospect of iiaoris the british economy. What about the prospect of Boris Johnson the british economy. What about the prospect of Boris Johnson Coming I Prospect Of Borisjohnson coming back to office . Penny mordaunt didn� t want to get into it but how didn� t want to get into it but how did you feel about that . You were his back for a long time. Backer. When someone says we are in peculiar times, they really underestimate how peculiar these times are. There are pros and cons of each of the candidates. The pros for boris are very clearly that he got through to the public and he is a phenomenal campaigner. The downsides of opera that he will face this inquiry right now which will make it very. The privile. Es now which will make it very. The Privileges Committee looking into whether misled parliament. It Privileges Committee looking into whether misled parliament. It comes down to how whether misled parliament. It comes down to how many whether misled parliament. It comes down to how many of whether misled parliament. It comes down to how many of his whether misled parliament. It comes down to how many of his colleaguesl down to how many of his colleagues won� t support him if it gets to a difficult position. And finally the administration of government, and on the rishi sunakfront, he has demonstrated Strong Administration but the jury is out on whether he is a great campaigner. So what you get from this group of people is different facets of things that will help but whether you can bring them all together. Personally i would love them all to sit in a room somewhere and decide whether they could just make a government. Its could just make a government. Its interesting, we can show you some of the newspaper editorials suggesting that. The Mail On Sunday and The Sun On Sunday were that. The Mail On Sunday and The Sun On Sunday were both that. The Mail On Sunday and The Sun On Sunday were both boris that. The Mail On Sunday and The Sun On Sunday were both borisjohnson fans but they are stopping short of backing him, saying knock your Heads Together and sort it out. Iain duncan smith has his own Editorial Calling for unity which will be an enormous task for whoever ends up with the ground. Jane, as a pollster, when you look at the numbers and you see the candidates in action, does one of them stand out as being able to get the public back on side more than the others . It is totally unclear. What we know about borisjohnson is everything the public already made in terms of assessment. We know he� s a very polarising character, we know that he didn� t have very high popularity certainly compared to theresa may, but he was popular amongst leave voters and especially those voters who had toyed with voting for the brexit party. Who had toyed with voting for the Brexit Party Brexit party. Thats interesting because when brexit party. Thats interesting because when you brexit party. Thats interesting because when you talk brexit party. Thats interesting because when you talk to brexit party. Thats interesting j because when you talk to Boris Johnson backers, they suggest his immense popularity but you are saying that is a myth . Popularity amonist saying that is a myth . Popularity amon. St a saying that is a myth . Popularity amongst a certain saying that is a myth . Popularity amongst a certain section saying that is a myth . Popularity amongst a certain section of i saying that is a myth . Popularity amongst a certain section of the | amongst a certain section of the public, but what was crucial was that the leave vote united behind the conservatives and they united behind borisjohnson. What we also know about borisjohnson is that behind borisjohnson. What we also know about Boris Johnson is that the public started to turn against him and that included the leave voters who had gone to the Conservative Party for the first time in 2019. Not all of them but on average more of them were moving away from the tory party under him. Tory party under him. There is a iece b tory party under him. There is a piece by camilla tory party under him. There is a piece by camilla long, tory party under him. There is a piece by camilla long, the tory party under him. There is a l piece by camilla long, The Sunday Times columnist, who talks about the public being in an unhealthy relationship with borisjohnson. They love him but hate him but can� t ignore him. Lord king, what does this political turmoil do for the economy . You have talked about government and Bank Of England mistakes, but what impact does turmoil have . I mistakes, but what impact does turmoil have . Mistakes, but what impact does turmoil have . I dont think it has a lastini turmoil have . I dont think it has a Lasting Impact turmoil have . I dont think it has a Lasting Impact. Whoever turmoil have . I dont think it has a Lasting Impact. Whoever the turmoil have . I dont think it has a Lasting Impact. Whoever the Prime Minister is and indeed of the opposition, they need to confront three challenges to our economy. One is high inflation, 10 at present. That can be solved really by having slow growth over the next couple of years to bring inflation down. Secondly we are bequeathing to our children and grandchildren a massive amount of National Debt. What are we doing to try to improve the performance of the economy ten, 20 years down the road . Liz truss was right to focus on the need to do that where she was wrong was believing this would happen in two years whereas it will take much longer. And thirdly as a country we are saving far too little. We don� t invest much but we don� t save even the amount we are investing and we have a big external deficit. D0 the amount we are investing and we have a big external deficit. Have a big external deficit. Do you mean as individuals . Have a big external deficit. Do you mean as individuals . Know, have a big external deficit. Do you mean as individuals . Know, as i have a big external deficit. Do you mean as individuals . Know, as a i mean as individuals . Know, as a nation. Mean as individuals . Know, as a nation the mean as individuals . Know, as a nation. The best mean as individuals . Know, as a nation. The best way mean as individuals . Know, as a nation. The best way to mean as individuals . Know, as a nation. The best way to improve | nation. The best way to improve National Savings is reduced the size of the government deficit and that is a challenge for both major parties. We heard from Penny Mordaunt and we will probably hear from keir starmer that Public Expenditure isn� t going down, if anything it� s going up, therefore taxes will have to rise to fill the 93p taxes will have to rise to fill the gap. That doesn� t make a very happy picture for the next few years, but what we need is a government and what we need is a government and what will tell us honestly there is a reduction in our National Standard of living because we have decided to help ukraine and confront russia, and that means all of us will have to share the burden. We can� t put all of it on our children and grandchildren. All of it on our children and grandchildren. All of it on our children and irandchildren. ,. ,. ,. , grandchildren. What does that mean for the things grandchildren. What does that mean for the things people grandchildren. What does that mean for the things people see grandchildren. What does that mean for the things people see coming i grandchildren. What does that mean | for the things people see coming out of their bank account every month . Mortgage, rent . Of their bank account every month . Mortgage. Rent . Of their bank account every month . Mortgage, rent . Mortgage rates will clearl io mortgage, rent . Mortgage rates will clearly go up mortgage, rent . Mortgage rates will clearly go up we mortgage, rent . Mortgage rates will clearly go up. We are mortgage, rent . Mortgage rates will clearly go up. We are not mortgage, rent . Mortgage rates will clearly go up. We are not alone i mortgage, rent . Mortgage rates will clearly go up. We are not alone in i clearly go up. We are not alone in that. If you look at longer term Interest Rates, which are reflected Interest Rates, which are reflected in fixed Rate Mortgage rates, us rates have been rising at least as fast if not faster than this country that� s been true since the beginning of the year. So now we are in the same boat. D0 of the year. So now we are in the same boat same boat. Do you think your successor same boat. Do you think your successor at same boat. Do you think your successor at the same boat. Do you think your successor at the bank i same boat. Do you think your successor at the bank of i same boat. Do you think your i successor at the Bank Of England left it too late to start cracking down on this . I left it too late to start cracking down on this . Left it too late to start cracking down on this . I think all Central Banks made down on this . I think all Central Banks made the down on this . I think all Central Banks made the mistake i down on this . I think all Central Banks made the mistake during| down on this . I think all central i banks made the mistake during the lockdown period of thinking they should print a lot of money to support the economy, whereas in fact with the Economy Contracting under lockdown, that was the wrong policy. And all Central Banks, notjust ours but the Federal Reserve and the European Central bank are all facing now very high Inflation Rates of close to 10 . We are all in the same boat. Close to 1096. We are all in the same boat. � ,. ,. , close to 1096. We are all in the same boat. � ,. ,. ,. , close to 1096. We are all in the same boat. � i. ,. , boat. But you are trying to say diplomatically boat. But you are trying to say diplomatically about boat. But you are trying to say diplomatically about your i boat. But you are trying to say i diplomatically about your successor but you are clear the Bank Of England was slow. If but you are clear the Bank Of England was slow. Hfi but you are clear the Bank Of England was slow. But you are clear the Bank Of England was slow. If i was going to blame anyone. England was slow. If i was going to blame anyone. I england was slow. If i was going to blame anyone, i would england was slow. If i was going to blame anyone, i would blame i england was slow. If i was going to blame anyone, i would blame the i blame anyone, i would blame the Economics Profession for believing you can print money and it didn� t matter. 50 you can print money and it didnt matter. ,. , , matter. So the whole thing has been wroni , matter. So the whole thing has been wrong. Including matter. So the whole thing has been wrong, including if matter. So the whole thing has been wrong, including if you matter. So the whole thing has been wrong, including if you look matter. So the whole thing has been wrong, including if you look back i wrong, including if you look back now to what happened when you are trying to help us climb out of the last financial crisis . Last financial crisis . Engaging in quantitative last financial crisis . Engaging in Quantitative Easing last financial crisis . Engaging in Quantitative Easing in last financial crisis . Engaging in Quantitative Easing in 2009 i last financial crisis . Engaging in Quantitative Easing in 2009 was last financial crisis . Engaging in i Quantitative Easing in 2009 was to stop the economy from going into another recession because the amount of money in the economy was going down. Here in the last couple of years, the amount of money in the economy has grown very rapidly and at a pace that was bound to lead to higher inflation. At a pace that was bound to lead to higher inflation. What would you say to politicians higher inflation. What would you say to politicians is higher inflation. What would you say to politicians is to higher inflation. What would you say to politicians is to mark higher inflation. What would you say to politicians is to mark time i higher inflation. What would you say to politicians is to mark time to i to politicians is to mark time to front up . To politicians is to mark time to front u. . ,. , to politicians is to mark time to frontu . ,. ,. ,. , front up . Time to front up and have a narrative front up . Time to front up and have a narrative that front up . Time to front up and have a narrative that explains front up . Time to front up and have a narrative that explains to front up . Time to front up and have a narrative that explains to people i a narrative that explains to people the consequence of allowing inflation to pick up, also confronting russia and supporting ukraine which has reduced our National Standard of living, and also the need to help future generations cope with the increased National Debt that we are leaving to them. �. , National Debt that we are leaving to them. ,. ,. , National Debt that we are leaving to them. ,. , ,. , National Debt that we are leaving to them. ,. ,. ,. , them. And ust for context, do you think this them. And just for context, do you think this will them. And just for context, do you think this will field them. And just for context, do you think this will field to them. And just for context, do you think this will field to the them. And just for context, do you think this will field to the public, i think this will field to the public, to our viewers with the impact on Public Spending, people feeling hardship, will this feel like the era of austerity again in between the period when you were in charge and George Osborne was making cuts . In some ways it could be more difficult. Ithink in some ways it could be more difficult. I think everyone can see there is a strong case for higher Public Spending in some areas as we recoverfrom Public Spending in some areas as we recover from the lockdown period, and in many ways people are very good at identifying areas where the Public Spending should be higher in the longer term. Everyone wants Public Spending for the things they care about stopping at the challenge is, if we want to european levels of welfare and Public Spending, you can� t find that with american levels of tax rates. We may need to confront the need to have significantly higher taxes on the average person, not on. There isn� t enough money among the rich to get it back to. What you mention what is going on in other countries, i want to show you how other countries have been watching what has been happening in this country in the last week or so. We are following some Breaking News out of the united kingdom. After less than two months on thejob. Her speedy exit was noticed across the pond. How bad it got and how blue the air, reported in germany, too. Im bleep furious and i dont bleep care anymore. The old friend and rival highlighted the need for calm across the channel. Translation i hope in any case | the uk can again find stability. I that is good for us and good for europe. And the unlikely break out star . Yes, a lettuce, not liz truss. Written in the headlines around the world this week. I don� t want to make light of any of this, but can you believe what you have seen in the last seven days from your party . Britain in the headline. Filo. Britain in the headline. No, internally britain in the headline. No, internally in britain in the headline. No, internally in a britain in the headline. No, internally in a party, britain in the headline. No, internally in a party, we i britain in the headline. The, internally in a party, we have said internally in a party, we have said in on ourselves and that is always a big mistake and a problem because there are big problems to face, and you are going to discuss those in a second but it is also worth reminding ourselves, as lord king said earlier, if you take a pace back and have a look at what is going on in many of those countries where they were talking about our problems, china is hitting the buffers on the economy, the currency has gone, japan has a 35 year low on their currency now, germany has high inflation and italy and sweden have turned to populists. But inflation and italy and sweden have turned to populists. Turned to populists. But they are also laughing turned to populists. But they are also laughing at turned to populists. But they are also laughing at us, turned to populists. But they are also laughing at us, so turned to populists. But they are also laughing at us, so do i turned to populists. But they are also laughing at us, so do you i turned to populists. But they are i also laughing at us, so do you feel embarrassed as a conservative . I do. Embarrassed as a conservative . I do, i dont embarrassed as a conservative . I do, i dont want embarrassed as a conservative . I do, i dont want anyone embarrassed as a conservative . I do, i dont want anyone to embarrassed as a conservative . I ce i dont want anyone to laugh at us i don� t want anyone to laugh at us but all i am saying is, mervyn king is right, the problem is a global failure of both politics and central banking and the institutions, and now we are going to have to pick those pieces up and the lockdown and the war have created a wave of problems for us which there is no way of escaping and it� s causing problems anywhere, internally to my buddy, there are big questions, we are asking what a Labour Government would do, all of these things are inescapable and that is what we are going to have to confront. Inescapable and that is what we are going to have to confront. Thank you three very much going to have to confront. Thank you three very much now, going to have to confront. Thank you three very much now, i going to have to confront. Thank you three very much now, i know i going to have to confront. Thank you three very much now, i know you i three very much now, i know you coined the phrase that every central banker has a Silver Lining attached to a cloud but it has been fascinating to hear your insight so far. While the tory camps do battle, the Opposition Parties watch on no question, labour� s profited in the polls from the tories� misery. It� s only three weeks since we talked to keir starmer but so much has changed since then, he� s back. Thank you forjoining us. Nice to thank you for oining us. Nice to see ou thank you forjoining us. Nice to see you again thank you forjoining us. Nice to see you again. Is thank you forjoining us. Nice to see you again. Is nice thank you forjoining us. Nice to see you again. Is nice to i thank you forjoining us. Nice to. See you again. Is nice to welcome ou to see you again. Is nice to welcome you to the see you again. Is nice to welcome you to the studio see you again. Is nice to welcome you to the studio rather see you again. Is nice to welcome you to the studio rather than i see you again. Is nice to welcome you to the studio rather than at i you to the studio rather than at your conference. Huge turmoil, three possible contenders for Prime Minister, who would you prefer to face . ~. ,. , � face . Well, forgive me ifi dont send face . Well, forgive me ifi dont spend too face . Well, forgive me ifi dont spend too much face . Well, forgive me ifi dont spend too much of face . Well, forgive me ifi dont spend too much of my face . Well, forgive me ifi dont spend too much of my time i face . Well, forgive me ifi dont spend too much of my time in i face . Well, forgive me ifi dont. Spend too much of my time in this interview on the Ridiculous Chaotic Circus that is going on at the top of the tory party because my focus is on the millions of people who are struggling to pay their bills, have now got additional anxieties about their mortgage. I know what it feels like not to be able to pay your bills, it happened to me and my family when i was growing up. They are fed up to the back teeth with this. And there is an alternative. We could have a stable Labour Government, which on day one would restore faith in the institutions that give us market stability, would introduce a when full tax so that the Energy Prices are not paid for by working people and taxpayers but the oil and Gas Companies who have made excess profits, so they pay their fair share and we would have a plan for gross to get the country going. Plan for gross to get the country iioin. �. ,. Plan for gross to get the country 110i. �. , plan for gross to get the country iioin. �. ,. ,. Going. But it does make a difference to ellow going. But it does make a difference top yellow hear going. But it does make a difference top yellow hear me going. But it does make a difference top yellow hear me out going. But it does make a difference top yellow hear me out because i going. But it does make a difference i top yellow hear me out because these people are so fed up, they are entitled and they want a say on this. Entitled and they want a say on this. ,. ,. ,. , entitled and they want a say on this. ,. ,. ,. , this. There is a choice to be made. We need a this. There is a choice to be made. We need a general this. There is a choice to be made. We need a General Election. I this. There is a choice to be made. We need a General Election. Let i this. There is a choice to be made. | we need a General Election. Let the public into decide, do they want to continue with this article ails or do they want stability under a Labour Government . You do they want stability under a Labour Government . You know very well ou Labour Government . You know very well you cant Labour Government . You know very well you cant make Labour Government . You know very well you cant make that Labour Government . You know very well you cant make that election i well you cant make that election happen, it is up to the Governing Party to decide when it happens and its not going to happen. The . Party to decide when it happens and its not going to happen. Its not going to happen. They have not a its not going to happen. They have got a choice its not going to happen. They have got a choice to its not going to happen. They have got a choice to make its not going to happen. They have got a choice to make because its not going to happen. They have got a choice to make because they| got a choice to make because they could either put the party first or the country first. The country needs change, it needs stability, and to get rid of this chaos. It has been going on for the best part of 12 years. We dont need another change at the top of the tory party. But every Opposition Leader i can ever remember calls for a General Election but the fact is, it is not in your gift to make it happen. £31 in your gift to make it happen. Of course, it is up to tory mps to decide. But what i have said to my party at our conference was very clear, we will always put the country first, and party second. The tories are putting the party first again. That is what has got us into this problem. They cant be the solution to a problem that they have created. {131 solution to a problem that they have created. ,. , solution to a problem that they have created. ,. ,. , created. Of course, all of the candidates created. Of course, all of the candidates who created. Of course, all of the candidates who are created. Of course, all of the | candidates who are interested created. Of course, all of the i candidates who are interested in running say they could turn it around but last time we met, you said that labour were starting to believe it could win, you said you could sense that but at pmqs this week, three weeks later, you call yourself a government in waiting. That is, as we have heard from jane green this morning, largely due to the tory collapse, perhaps not much you have done. Are you getting a Bit Complacent . Complacent . Well, laura, i reect that, as complacent . Well, laura, i reect that. Asyoufi complacent . Well, laura, i reect that, as you know, i complacent . Well, laura, i reect that, as you know, ifi complacent . Well, laura, i reect that, as you know, if you i complacent . Well, laura, i reect that, as you know, if you are i complacent . Well, laura, i reject that, as you know, if you are a i that, as you know, if you are a politician, it is very hard to get if you are in opposition, it is hard to get seen and heard and the beam of the lighthouse comes round only so often, it came unto us at conference, you wither and we discussed it, it came onto the labour party and illuminated us and what i think everybody was the labour party has changed, the labour party is putting forward the answers to the challenges we face as a country, and the labour party has the confidence to govern. I am not complacent. I have already said to my Shadow Cabinet that complacency is the enemy. We have to fight for every single vote. But at the moment, if you think of all of those millions of people who are fed up, people going into this winter worrying about their bills, now they have Mortgage Payments that are higher than they otherwise would be as a direct result of the tories crashing the economy. If they are our focus, crashing the economy. If they are ourfocus, they crashing the economy. If they are our focus, they are entitled, they want to say, they shouldnt be shut out. � ,. ~ want to say, they shouldnt be shut out. � ,. , ~. ,. , want to say, they shouldnt be shut out. � ,. , ~. , out. Lets talk about what you might do if somehow out. Lets talk about what you might do if somehow you out. Lets talk about what you might do if somehow you get out. Lets talk about what you might do if somehow you get your out. Lets talk about what you might do if somehow you get your general| do if somehow you get your General Election and go on to win it. We have just heard lord election and go on to win it. We havejust heard lord Caine Election and go on to win it. We have just heard lord caine say, clearly and powerfully, that essentially we have all been living in a bit of a fantasy land. He said Public Expenditure is going to go up and taxes are going to go up, not just for the richest but for everyone, do you accept that . Well, look, the damage everyone, do you accept that . Well, look, the damage has everyone, do you accept that . Well, look, the damage has been everyone, do you accept that . M look, the damage has been done to our economy and an incoming government is going to have to pick up government is going to have to pick up a real mess of an economy of the tories� making. At the moment, we dont know the full extent of the damage because we have not had an obr report. You damage because we have not had an obr reort. ,. Damage because we have not had an obr rwort damage because we have not had an obr reort. ,. ,. , 1, ~ obr report. You had the former bank of encland obr report. You had the former Bank Of England governor obr report. You had the former Bank Of England governor say, obr report. You had the former Bank Of England governor say, to obr report. You had the former Bank Of England governor say, to be i of england governor say, to be truthful with the public, that is what he was saying, to be truthful with the public, you have got to be saying that taxes will have to go up if we want to enjoy the kind of standards we have right now. We need that Obr Report Standards we have right now. We need that obr report so standards we have right now. We need that obr report so we standards we have right now. We need that obr report so we know standards we have right now. We need that obr report so we know the i that obr report so we know the extent of the damage. That obr report so we know the extent of the damage. From the independent extent of the damage. From the independent budget extent of the damage. From the independent budget watchdog. L extent of the damage. From the independent budget watchdog. Whoever comes in as prime independent budget watchdog. Whoever comes in as prime a independent budget watchdog. Whoever comes in as prime a list, independent budget watchdog. Whoever comes in as prime a list, we independent budget watchdog. Whoever comes in as prime a list, we need i comes in as prime a list, we need the report because well need to see the report because well need to see the extent of the damage but what i have said from a labour Party Perspective is i know they are going to be tough choices, i said that three weeks ago and i said it last week again, tough choices that mean week again, tough choices that mean we cant do some of the things that we cant do some of the things that we want to do as an incoming Labour Government as quickly as we would want to. Im not going to write a manifesto on the programme but i am being clear that we will be the party of sound money. We know there are tough choices to be made. We have already set up some things we would do, a windfall tax on oil and Gas Companies, bringing in billions of pounds, Non Dom Tax Status changed, loopholes are. find of pounds, nondom tax status changed, loopholes are. And there is a disute changed, loopholes are. And there is a disoute about changed, loopholes are. And there is a dispute about how changed, loopholes are. And there is a dispute about how much changed, loopholes are. And there is a dispute about how much that i changed, loopholes are. And there isi a dispute about how much that would race but i want to pick up on something you just said which is what you said earlier last week and we discussed it with one of your colleagues last week. You said, we should be clear about what this means, not being able to do things, good labour things, as quickly as we might like. Can you tell us what that might mean . Does it mean Cutting Spending or does it mean making changes less quickly than you would like if you are lucky enough to be in office . Im would like if you are lucky enough to be in office . To be in office . Im not going to write the manifesto to be in office . Im not going to write the manifesto on to be in office . Im not going to write the manifesto on the i write the manifesto on the programme, we dont know the extent of the damage but what i was being clear about with my own party and the public is that i know that an incoming Labour Government is going to inherit an economic mess from this government, economic damage. Therefore, there are things that we would like to do as an incoming government, good labour things, as i have described, which we wont be able to do as quickly as want. Like what . We dont able to do as quickly as want. Like what . We dont know able to do as quickly as want. Like what . We dont know the able to do as quickly as want. Like what . We dont know the extent l able to do as quickly as want. Like| what . We dont know the extent of the damage what . We dont know the extent of the damage and what . We dont know the extent of the damage and im what . We dont know the extent of the damage and im not what . We dont know the extent of the damage and im not going i what . We dont know the extent of the damage and im not going to i the damage and im not going to write the manifesto on the programme but we have set fiscal rules, we have said we will pay for daily spending, we will only borrow to invest and we will get debt down as a percentage of the economy and we have also said, i know you wont let me do this but we have set out the tax changes we would make, on the windfall tax, or non dom status, on the tax breaks for private schools and loopholes for private equity. So we have already set out some of ways in which we will change taxation. But very few economists would believe that those were tot up to meet anything like the black hole that might greet you when you come into office and you are also auditioning to be Prime Minister, like Penny Mordaunt and Boris Johnson and rishi sunak. Can you tell us without specifics what your priorities would be . If people arent going to be able in the labour party to get what they want straightaway, briefly. Yes. Labour party to get what they want straightaway, briefly. Straightaway, briefly. Yes, my riori straightaway, briefly. Yes, my priority is straightaway, briefly. Yes, my priority is growing straightaway, briefly. Yes, my priority is growing the straightaway, briefly. Yes, my| priority is growing the economy straightaway, briefly. Yes, my priority is growing the economy and the way we would do that is to have a green prosperity plan which would seize the opportunity, we have got a once in a Generation Opportunity for the next generation ofjobs. We have got a Clean Power Plan for 2030 which will double onshore wind, triple solar power, quadruple offshore wind. That is a plan, an ambitious plan, that we could do over six years. It will grow the economy across the whole of the country. But i want an economy that works for working people. I dont believe in the theory that only those at the top create the wealth. To be more specific on issue that is dear to labour voters heart and everybody� s dance, yes or no, would you increase spending on the nhs in line with inflation . We you increase spending on the nhs in line with inflation . Line with inflation . We will set out what we will line with inflation . We will set out what we will do line with inflation . We will set out what we will do with line with inflation . We will set out what we will do with the line with inflation . We will set out what we will do with the nhs i line with inflation . We will set out what we will do with the nhs but i line with inflation . We will set out | what we will do with the nhs but of course the nhs needs more money. You are not ready to say that . It course the nhs needs more money. You are not ready to say that . It needs i are not ready to say that . It needs more than are not ready to say that . It needs more than money, are not ready to say that . It needs more than money, my are not ready to say that . It needs more than money, my wife are not ready to say that . It needs more than money, my wife works | are not ready to say that . It needs. More than money, my wife works in the nhs, you have had this before, mum and sister work in the nhs and i runa mum and sister work in the nhs and i run a public service. I know that of course they need more money but i also know that we need reform. The nhs needs to move to a preventative model where we anticipate these much better. If model where we anticipate these much better. ,. ,. , model where we anticipate these much better. I. ,. ~ model where we anticipate these much better. ,. , ~ better. If you come back to talk about that better. If you come back to talk about that on better. If you come back to talk about that on another better. If you come back to talki about that on another occasion, better. If you come back to talk i about that on another occasion, sir keir starmer, thank you so much for coming in, we covered lots of ground. Thank you. Of course, away from the hurly burly of british politics, there are more important things going on in the world. You know were keeping a close eye on whats happening in ukraine, where as well as the ongoing fighting, more than a million and a half homes are without electricity after a wave of Russian Rocket attacks hit Power Generators across the country. Is that a new tactic to harm ordinary ukrainians . Weve been speaking to oleksi reznikov, ukraines defence minister. Yes, its absolutely true. Thats the new tactics of the new commander of the Russian Armed forces. He used the same tactics in syria and he was shelling aleppo, and, you know, his background, he is former prisoner. And this is tactics to fight with the civilians, not with the armed forces of ukraine. Thats why we absolutely comprehended that priority number one, its the air Defence Systems for ukraine. Thats why i was in brussels, during the meeting with ramstein and after that, the ministerium of nato countries. We discussed with my colleagues, my friends, ministers of defence, Different Countries, that this is priority number one. With winter coming and increasing pressure for governments in europe, particularly because of the rise in Energy Prices, do you see any evidence theres fatigue in other countries, that efforts to support ukraine might fade . One of my threats, its Fatigue Syndrome in europe, especially in the Different Countries and other countries also. But when the kremlin started their new campaign, using the drones and calibres of cruise missiles or Ballistic Missiles against civilian facilities, especially, they showed to the whole world that its a really country who sponsored terrorism. Its a really terrorist country. And its interesting, the reaction of my partners, my colleagues was absolutely pro ukrainian. They told me that theres not any evidence of Fatigue Syndrome in their countries. We will stay with ukraine. We will stay till the end. The end will be your victory. President zelensky has recently accused russia of planting mines at that big dam in the kherson region of southern ukraine, which is under moscows control. Whats the evidence for that . And if it was true and the dam was blown up, what would it mean . No, it means that this dam could be blown up. And we have evidence from our Intelligence Services and we told to our partners that there are these threats. But its interesting because the consequences of this, probably, if they will do this act, the consequences will be also not against the Ukraine Armed forces or civilians, because on the left side of the dnipro river, they have more russian forces, they have more occupied territories. And the water will flow especially on the left bank of the river, because its different heights between right and left hand. So do you think russia would do that . You know, i hope that they will not do it, but they did before a lot of stupid things. And i thought that they make. They have, like, friends with their mind. So they are crazy. There are threats, too, from the russians of using nuclear weapons. Youve said they are crazy, they do stupid things. But is that Nuclear Threat a credible one . They did a lot of crazy things, but they are staying as pragmatic in the same time. And for them, using nuclear clout, its the last step or last word in the world, because they will open pandoras box and we will ring the bell, and we will remind to our partners that we have budapest memorandum, when united states, united kingdom, france have the obligation to defend ukraine. Ukraines defence minister Oleksii Reznikov speaking to me earlier from kyiv. Rishi sunak and borisjohnson fronted up to each other last night did they find a way to come together to stop impending disaster in their party . At this stage, who knows . But have they got that on their mind rather than coming out for interviews . It rather than coming out for interviews . Rather than coming out for interviews . , ,. , interviews . It seems they do. They have a couple interviews . It seems they do. They have a couple of interviews . It seems they do. They have a couple of busy interviews . It seems they do. They have a couple of busy days interviews . It seems they do. They have a couple of busy days ahead l interviews . It seems they do. They l have a couple of busy days ahead but we can talk to a well known backer of each man. Dominic raab, who was Boris Johnsons deputy Prime Minister will be here in a second, but firstjacob Rees Mogg Johnson evangelist and business secretary is with us from somerset. Good morning, have you been in touch with borisjohnson and is he actually going to stand . With Boris Johnson and is he actually going to stand . Yes, i have been speaking actually going to stand . Yes, i have been speaking to actually going to stand . Yes, i have been speaking to boris actually going to stand . Yes, i have been speaking to Boris Johnson, i actually going to stand . Yes, i have | been speaking to Boris Johnson, and been speaking to borisjohnson, and clearly he is going to stand. There is a great deal of support for him, as you will have seen. As you will have seen. Does he definitively as you will have seen. Does he definitively have as you will have seen. Does he definitively have the as you will have seen. Does he definitively have the 100 i as you will have seen. Does he | definitively have the 100 names as you will have seen. Does he i definitively have the 100 names are required to get to the final two . Because during the day yesterday, his campaign claimed he had but didnt give any more information, and some people in rishi sunak� s campaign suggested they had been making it up. Campaign suggested they had been making it up making it up. Well, they would, wouldnt they . Making it up. Well, they would, wouldnt they . The making it up. Well, they would, wouldnt they . The system i making it up. Well, they would, wouldnt they . The system is i making it up. Well, they would, l wouldnt they . The system is that people have a choice whether to make the names public are not. The hundred necessary members of parliament are there. Ugh . Hundred necessary members of parliament are there. Why then has steve baker. Parliament are there. Why then has steve baker, your parliament are there. Why then has steve baker, your fellow parliament are there. Why then has steve baker, your fellow brexiteer, i steve baker, your fellow brexiteer, you are both deeply involved in bringing down theresa may, why has he said in your view borisjohnson would be a disaster, and i quote exactly . Would be a disaster, and i quote exactl . ,. ,. , �. , exactly . Steve and i dont always auree on exactly . Steve and i dont always agree on everything, exactly . Steve and i dont always agree on everything, and exactly . Steve and i dont always agree on everything, and there i exactly . Steve and i dont always i agree on everything, and there have been various times over the years when we have come to different political conclusions. I wouldnt be surprised that not everybody i have ever worked with on one issue shouldnt agree with me on this issue. ~ ,. , i. Shouldnt agree with me on this issue. ~ ,. , ~ shouldnt agree with me on this issue. ~ ,. , i. ~ , shouldnt agree with me on this issue. ~ ,. , ~ ,. , issue. Why do you think members of the ublic issue. Why do you think members of the public would issue. Why do you think members of the public would accept issue. Why do you think members of the public would accept boris the public would accept Boris Johnson as Prime Minister again . He has been investigated for lying to parliament, it was found to have broken the law while in office, he had disastrous by election results, bowling suggests the fact he is still an electoral winner is not the case, so why would the country accept him again in your view . Because i think a lot of what you have said is not getting the full story. Boris delivered brexit, he supported ukraine and standing up to russia, he was the first will lead to do that and got us through a pandemic. He won a majority of 80, he won hartlepool, hes been the greatest asset is the Conservative Party has had in modern times. If you look at the poll in the Mail On Sunday today, he is the one that appeals most to people who voted conservative in 2019. Conservative in 2019. Many polls show the opposite, conservative in 2019. Many polls show the opposite, and conservative in 2019. Many polls show the opposite, and you i conservative in 2019. Many polls show the opposite, and you list | conservative in 2019. Many polls l show the opposite, and you list his achievements but after those things had taken place, more than 50 ministers in his government went public to force him from office, essentially saying he was not fit. Just because there were achievements previously, didnt his time in office suggest he wasnt up to the job by the end of it . I office suggest he wasnt up to the job by the end of it . Job by the end of it . I think it is such an extraordinary job by the end of it . I think it is such an extraordinary rewriting | job by the end of it . I think it is l such an extraordinary rewriting of history to dismiss those achievements of historic proportions. A fundamental change to the british constitution. But proportions. A fundamental change to the british constitution. The british constitution. But in fact more the british constitution. But in fact more than the british constitution. But in fact more than 50 the british constitution. But in fact more than 50 ministers i the british constitution. But in l fact more than 50 ministers Boris Johnsons own government resigned to force him from office. Force him from office. These are fundamental force him from office. These are fundamental achievements. I force him from office. These are fundamental achievements. You force him from office. These are i fundamental achievements. You had the Ukraine Defence minister on, ukraines support was dependent upon the leadership borisjohnson showed. Brexit fundamentally changes our constitution for the better, delivers the 2016 referendum result, and getting us through the pandemic was something no government had ever had to deal with. These are historic achievements and he took over the Conservative Party in 2019, and within a few months won a majority of 80. That is an extraordinary electoral asset. Yes, there were some rows over cake. Electoral asset. Yes, there were some rows over cake. Electoral asset. Yes, there were some rows over cake. Nobody would den that some rows over cake. Nobody would deny that achievement, some rows over cake. Nobody would deny that achievement, it some rows over cake. Nobody would deny that achievement, it is some rows over cake. Nobody would deny that achievement, it is on some rows over cake. Nobody would deny that achievement, it is on the i deny that achievement, it is on the record and it was quite a moment, but during his time in office, many conservatives, many of your colleagues, many people who had previously been his significant backers saw him up close and concluded that he was no longer fit for office. You take an absolutely different view but my question is why do you think the country would therefore accept him again as Prime Minister when so many people in your party concluded that he wasnt up to it . �. , party concluded that he wasnt up to it . �. , party concluded that he wasnt up to it . ,. ,. ,. , it . Because his mandate was from the count. I it . Because his mandate was from the country i think it . Because his mandate was from the country. I think you it . Because his mandate was from the country. I think you are it . Because his mandate was from the country. I think you are looking it . Because his mandate was from the country. I think you are looking at i country. I think you are looking at it through the run end of the telescope. Keir starmer was just calling for an election. Boris johnson won the mandate. The call for an election is pretty hollow if the person who won the mandate is actually the Prime Minister. Do the person who won the mandate is actually the Prime Minister. Actually the Prime Minister. Do you acce t actually the Prime Minister. Do you accept rishi actually the Prime Minister. Do you accept rishi sunak actually the Prime Minister. Do you accept rishi sunak was actually the Prime Minister. Do you accept rishi sunak was right actually the Prime Minister. Do you accept rishi sunak was right about | accept rishi sunak was right about the economy in the summer . When he warned liz trusss plans would lead to financial instability, would lead to financial instability, would lead to more inflation and questions about the uks Financial Stability . I think there are a whole range of questions about the economy. I have always thought the increase in National Insurance was a mistake which has been reversed. If you look at the end, its at a 32 year low against the dollar, the yen, so to single it out as a uk phenomenon is incorrect. To single it out as a uk phenomenon is incorrect is incorrect. Jacob reesm099. We must leave is incorrect. Jacob reesm099. We must leave it is incorrect. Jacob reesm099. We must leave it there is incorrect. Jacob reesm099. We must leave it there this is incorrect. Jacob reesm099. We must leave it there this morning. | Dominic Raabs been listening to that here. There was a meeting last night between rishi sunak and Boris Johnson, do you know what happened . Did they do a deal . Johnson, do you know what happened . Did they do a deal . Did they do a deal . There is no issue around did they do a deal . There is no issue around deals did they do a deal . There is no issue around deals and did they do a deal . There is no issue around deals and thats l did they do a deal . There is no l issue around deals and thats not the right way to proceed. What would the right way to proceed. What would the deal involved . Rishi sunak is clear, on the bbc tell you mentioned he has double the number of mps supporting him compared to boris. We have a whole range as well as the number, big beasts like sajid javid coming out for him, brexiteers like steve baker, kemi badenoch, so that tells you the range of his support. But what they did have was a good conversation about the need for unity. Iain duncan smith has talked about that and you can see from the momentum and the growing number but also the range of support for rishi that he is the best place to just because he has the numbers but also he has the breadth of support. I would love to see borisjohnson come back to front line politics, speaking personally, but we have this major issue that led to him having to resign, which is partygate, and in a matter of days he is partygate, and d in a matter of days he is going to take him right back into that spiral. find right back into that spiral. And ou have right back into that spiral. And you have taken right back into that spiral. And you have taken the decision to back rishi sunak, but why when your own Party Members rejected rishi sunak, he lost then so why can he be a winner witness testimony including his own which is going to take him right back into that spiral. find right back into that spiral. And ou have right back into that spiral. And you have taken right back into that spiral. Jifuc you have taken the decision right back into that spiral. fific you have taken the decision to back rishi sunak, but why when your own Party Members rejected rishi sunak, he lost then so why can he be a Financial Stability in the way lord king has set out is critical. Getting inflation down is the number one priority. Secondly i think the members were that was the question then. I think on the fundamental issue facing the economy, i think rishi was right then and hes right now, effectivelyjeremy hunt has introduced the approach rishi had advocated but of course there is much more that needs to be done. Financial stability in the way lord king has set out is critical. Getting inflation down is the number one priority. Secondly i think the members will look, if it goes to the members will look, if it goes to the members and lets see. Members will look, if it goes to the members and lets see. Members will look, if it goes to the members and lets see. Should it . I think they members and lets see. Should it . I think they will members and lets see. Should it . I think they will be members and lets see. Should it . I think they will be which members and lets see. Should it . I think they will be which is i think they will be which is growing by the hourfor rishi sunak. Because ultimately we need to come together, i agree with much of what has been said, and i would also tout the many achievements of Boris Johnson. ,. ,. , ~ , johnson. There are lots of mps still to declare. Johnson. There are lots of mps still to declare, but johnson. There are lots of mps still to declare, but its johnson. There are lots of mps still to declare, but its interesting, i to declare, but its interesting, you mentioned what lord king was saying. He was saying basically governments have for a long time not fronted up. Rishi sunak also borrowed enormous amounts of money to support people during the pandemic, im not saying if that was the right decision or not, but you cannot say his record as chancellor is somehow not blemished and he doesnt have a part in everything that happened. We doesnt have a part in everything that happened that happened. We all take our responsibility that happened. We all take our responsibility but that happened. We all take our responsibility but rishi that happened. We all take our responsibility but rishi sunak. That happened. We all take our i responsibility but rishi sunak was the chancellor that saw us through with the Prime Minister the huge challenge, the millions ofjobs saved through the furlough scheme, the businesses kept alive, viable so that we didnt have the appalling economic and social scarring that otherwise would have been the case. And he has also set out what is clearly the right plan to get Financial Stability, market confidence, inflation down, Interest Rates down. We talked about this all over the summer and get the country moving forward. Whether it is the economic credentials, and you are right, on the telly we have seen so far his ability to garner support from double the number of mps compared to boris, he is right for both economic and political reasons to take us forward. If both economic and political reasons to take us forward. Ii he both economic and political reasons to take us forward. To take us forward. If he is victorious. To take us forward. If he is victorious, would to take us forward. If he is victorious, would he i to take us forward. If he is victorious, would he keepl to take us forward. If he is victorious, would he keep jeremy victorious, would he Keepjeremy Hunt as chancellor . Victorious, would he keep jeremy hunt as chancellor . Victorious, would he keep jeremy hunt as chancellor . What we dont start doinu hunt as chancellor . What we dont start doing his hunt as chancellor . What we dont start doing his handing hunt as chancellor . What we dont start doing his handing out hunt as chancellor . What we dont start doing his handing out jobs. | start doing his handing outjobs. Penny mordaunt said specifically she would keep him as chancellor. You can see from would keep him as chancellor. You can see from the would keep him as chancellor. Um, can see from the range of would keep him as chancellor. Moi. Can see from the range of support he has got that he will put a government of all the talents but i dont think a leadership contest should become a dutch auction of cabinet posts. Should become a dutch auction of cabinet posh should become a dutch auction of cabinet pasta should become a dutch auction of cabinet posts. That is notable you havent said cabinet posts. That is notable you havent said rishi cabinet posts. That is notable you havent said rishi sunak cabinet posts. That is notable you havent said rishi sunak would. Havent said rishi sunak would keep jeremy hunt as chancellor. Indie havent said rishi sunak would keep jeremy hunt as chancellor. We have said across jeremy hunt as chancellor. We have said across that jeremy hunt as chancellor. We have said across that any jeremy hunt as chancellor. We have said across that any prime jeremy hunt as chancellor. We have said across that any Prime Ministerl said across that any Prime Minister or to have the prerogative to form the very best team and be able to do that in a clear way. It the very best team and be able to do that in a clear way. That in a clear way. It has been noticeable that in a clear way. It has been noticeable this that in a clear way. It has been noticeable this morning that in a clear way. It has beeni noticeable this morning talking that in a clear way. It has been i noticeable this morning talking to Penny Mordaunt and Iain Duncan Smith how both reflected that basically a lot of the public have every right to be hacked off with what has been going on in this Conservative Party. You are a senior figure. Going on in this Conservative Party. You are a seniorfigure. Do going on in this Conservative Party. You are a senior figure. Do you understand, accept, feel it yourself that some of the public look at what is going on and think it has been a disaster . And why is rishi sunak a solution . ,. ,. ,. , solution . First of all i agree with what jacob solution . First of all i agree with what jacob said, solution . First of all i agree with what jacob said, that solution . First of all i agree with what jacob said, that boris solution . First of all i agree with i what jacob said, that Boris Johnson whatjacob said, that borisjohnson achieved a great many positive things. We have had the various different challenges which are unprecedented, whether it is covid i9, brexit, the war in ukraine, the impact on the cost of living, so these are unprecedented times. But on the fundamental calls on the economy, rishi has been right and he showed with the furlough scheme why he has the experience to deliver. But i also see is a member of the conservative family that there is a political mess and we all as members of the party have a duty to fix it. It as members of the party have a duty to fix it. , � ~ as members of the party have a duty to fix it. , � ~. , to fix it. It doesnt feel like a very happy to fix it. It doesnt feel like a very happy family to fix it. It doesnt feel like a very happy family right to fix it. It doesnt feel like a very happy family right now. | to fix it. It doesnt feel like a very happy family right now. Dominic raab, lets see what the next few days bring. Thank you for coming in this morning. After no another mad morning, lets remind ourselves what Penny Mordaunt had to say. I lets remind ourselves what Penny Mordaunt had to say. Mordaunt had to say. I was the Halfway House mordaunt had to say. I was the Halfway House between mordaunt had to say. I was the Halfway House between rishi i mordaunt had to say. I was the Halfway House between rishi sunak and liz truss and i deeply regret the debate is about are you for stability or low taxes . That is not the right construct. They are two sides of the same coin. The right construct. They are two sides of the same coin. Mervyn king, how closely sides of the same coin. Mervyn king, how closely do sides of the same coin. Mervyn king, how closely do you sides of the same coin. Mervyn king, how closely do you think sides of the same coin. Mervyn king, how closely do you think the how closely do you think the Financial Markets will be watching what happens in the next couple of days . Are we still in jeopardy . I days . Are we still injeopardy . I dont think we are in jeopardy, days . Are we still injeopardy . I dont think we are injeopardy, i think dont think we are injeopardy, i think the dont think we are injeopardy, i think the markets reacted calmly to what happened in the last couple of days and what happened in the last couple of days and will be watching more what the labour days and will be watching more what the labour party is saying than the conservative candidates. All of the politicians conservative candidates. All of the politicians today have talked about economic politicians today have talked about economic stability and putting the National Economic stability and putting the National Interest first. That is words National Interest first. That is words. The real question is what it takes words. The real question is what it takes to words. The real question is what it takes to bring inflation down, how we can takes to bring inflation down, how we can save more as a country and what we can save more as a country and what we we can save more as a country and what we can we can save more as a country and what we can do to help our children and grandchildren meet the debt costs we are leaving to them. Jane, briefly from costs we are leaving to them. Jane, briefly from you. Costs we are leaving to them. Jane, briefly from you, whatever costs we are leaving to them. J ua briefly from you, whatever happens, could the tories hang on at the next General Election . Jts could the tories hang on at the next General Election . General election . Its not looking likel. General election . Its not looking likely they General Election . Its not looking likely. They are General Election . Its not looking likely. They are in General Election . Its not looking likely. They are in a General Election . Its not looking likely. They are in a perilous likely. They are in a perilous position. Likely. They are in a perilous position. They likely. They are in a perilous position, they are likely. They are in a perilous position, they are highly likely. They are in a perilous position, they are highly divided and they position, they are highly divided and they are position, they are highly divided and they are facing position, they are highly divided and they are facing an and they are facing an extraordinarily and they are facing an| extraordinarily difficult and they are facing an extraordinarily difficult policy picture extraordinarily difficult policy picture so extraordinarily difficult policy picture. So this extraordinarily difficult policy picture. So this is extraordinarily difficult policy picture. So this is a extraordinarily difficult policy picture. So this is a terrible i picture. So this is a terrible political picture. So this is a terrible political picture picture. So this is a terrible political picture under picture. So this is a terrible political picture under veryl political picture under very challenging political picture under very challenging scenario political picture under veryl challenging scenario them, political picture under very challenging scenario them, and the polling challenging scenario them, and the polling doesnt challenging scenario them, and the polling doesnt look challenging scenario them, and the polling doesnt look very challenging scenario them, and the polling doesnt look very positive i polling doesnt look very positive for them polling doesnt look very positive for them right polling doesnt look very positive for them right now. Polling doesnt look very positive for them right now. It polling doesnt look very positive for them right now. It would polling doesnt look very positive| for them right now. It would take something for them right now. It would take something really for them right now. It would take something really substantial for them right now. It would take something really substantial to l for them right now. It would take. Something really substantial to turn this around, something really substantial to turn this around, as something really substantial to turn this around, as it something really substantial to turn this around, as it has something really substantial to turn this around, as it has taken this around, as it has taken something this around, as it has taken something really this around, as it has takenl something really substantial this around, as it has taken something really substantial for it to get something really substantial for it to get this something really substantial for it to get this bad something really substantial for it to get this bad. If something really substantial for it to get this bad. Something really substantial for it to get this bad. If we have learned an hinu to get this bad. If we have learned anything in to get this bad. If we have learned anything in the to get this bad. If we have learned anything in the last to get this bad. If we have learned anything in the last few to get this bad. If we have learned anything in the last few years to get this bad. If we have learned anything in the last few years it i to get this bad. If we have learned anything in the last few years it is | anything in the last few years it is that anything could happen in british politics. Iain duncan smith, do you believe this vote must go to the conservative Party Members . J the conservative Party Members . I want my party to settle down, i want my party to recognise that staring over the brink of a precipice they have to make a decision whether they want to step back. I believe in the democracy process so if there are two candidates it must go to the electorate, but it may be possible there are not so we will deal with that as it comes. The party should understand you have now got to start telling a story about how difficult things are going to be, what the problems are and what we will do, and dancing round that will not square it. And dancing round that will not sluare it. , ~ i. And dancing round that will not sluare it. , ~ ,. And dancing round that will not sluare it. , ~. , and dancing round that will not suare it. , ~. ,. And dancing round that will not sluareit. ,. ,. , square it. Thank you all so much for oinin